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#2691687 - 07/22/12 12:31 PM Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched
dparm Online   happy


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 11790
Loc: Lombard, IL



Pretty sweet video but it doesn't reveal much about the product. Joey at Motul USA had been talking about this for a while.

An article that details the launch:
Launch in Sri Lanka







As you can see, they've added 0w15 and 0w40.

They're also adding an anti-tamper seal with a serial number you can verify online. Perhaps they've had problems with counterfeiting.


I'm not 100% certain what was changed based on this statement:

Motul’s R&D department focused on new formulations, placing esters at the center of its strategy, combining the latest 100% Motul base oil and new additive package. This complex and performing combination is held in each lubricant under the name of Ester Core ® technology, an evolving technology based on the Esters harnessing for over 40 years.

Here are the specs for the new "Trophy" 0w40:
Density: 0.848
KV @ 40C: 75.7
KV @ 100C: 13.6
HTHS: 3.9
VI: 186
Pour: -51 C / -60 F
Flash: 222 C / 432 F
TBN: 8.25

Here are the specs for the new "Sprint" 0w15:
Density: 0.838
KV @ 40C: 23.3
KV @ 100C: 5.1
HTHS: 2.0
VI: 155
Pour: -60 C / -76 F
Flash: 230 C / 446 F
TBN: 7.97




They also posted up an interesting graphic showing oil pressure when 300V Ester Core was used at LeMans this year:

_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Mobil 1 0w40 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#2691699 - 07/22/12 12:44 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
dparm Online   happy


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 11790
Loc: Lombard, IL
Additionally, some of the other datasheets have been updated.

For some reason they all show TBN of 8.25 (except the 0w15 and 5w30 which are 7.97). This is a drop from the normal 10-12 range.

Some are seeing a drop in VI and HTHS, while others have seen them go up. Then again, these are just specifications and the real proof is in the pudding.




High-RPM 0w20
(VI has dropped, but HTHS has risen)
http://www.motul.com/system/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/51781/300V%20High%20RPM%200W-20%20(GB).pdf?1329125318


Power Racing 5w30
(HTHS is down slightly, VI is up slightly)
http://www.motul.com/system/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/51784/300V_Power_Racing_5W-30_(GB).pdf?1339171623


Power 5w40
(HTHS is down to 4.1)
http://www.motul.com/system/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/51783/300V%20Power%205W-40%20(GB).pdf?1329125425


Chrono 10w40
(VI has dropped, but HTHS has risen)
http://www.motul.com/system/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/51779/300V%20Chrono%2010W-40%20(GB).pdf?1329125493


Competition 15w50
(VI is up, HTHS is unchanged)
http://www.motul.com/system/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/51780/300V%20Competition%2015W-50%20(GB).pdf?1329125523


LeMans 20w60
(VI is up, HTHS is down)
http://www.motul.com/system/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/51780/300V%20Competition%2015W-50%20(GB).pdf?1329125523
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Mobil 1 0w40 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#2691709 - 07/22/12 12:55 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
dparm Online   happy


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 11790
Loc: Lombard, IL
The specs for that Trophy 0w40 are the best I've ever seen for a 0w40. They have the same KV values as Mobil 1 0w40 but with a higher HTHS. This should make it even more shear-resistant.

While Redline 0w40 still has a higher VI, it is also thicker with higher KV values and HTHS of 4.0. The same can be said for Liqui-Moly Synthoil Energy 0w40 which has higher KV values but HTHS of only 3.6.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Mobil 1 0w40 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#2691784 - 07/22/12 02:26 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 8986
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
dparm, thanks for posting this.
Nice to see an oil lighter than the 0W-20 with the addition of a 0W-15; though disappointed in the VI of only 155. That means it's heavier than Sustina 0W-20 at 0C although it is 10% lighter at room temp's.

Don't like the VI drop in the 0W-20 or the higher HTHSV.

They need a 0W-30 although the lower HTHSV and higher VI of the 5W-30 is a nice improvement.

Yes the long awaited 0W-40 is a nice addition with it's respectable 186 VI. A bit heavier than the SN M1 0W-40 and lighter than RL 0W-40 although not likely noticeably due to the higher 197 VI of RL.

Nice to see a more reasonable 4.1cP HTHSV for the 5W-40 grade. Never did believe the previous 4.5cP figure.
_________________________
'74 Lotus Europa - 5W-50,VSOT
'86 Porsche 928S - TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40 blend
'96 BMW 328i - Idemitsu 0W-20/M1 0W-40 "
'94 Caterham 7 - Sustina 0W-20

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#2691871 - 07/22/12 04:06 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: CATERHAM]
tudorart Offline


Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 171
Loc: Transylvania, Romania, EU
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
dparm, thanks for posting this.
Nice to see a more reasonable 4.1cP HTHSV for the 5W-40 grade.

Density used to be at .89 (pretty regular for an ester) before and now is down to .86.

Why would that be?
I think it's a combination of thinner base (hence the pour point down from 36 to 45) and much more polymers hence the lower HTHS.
The ester % is probably less than 50% (just like on the previous one)...I have to find the MSDS...unless someone here has it.

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#2691935 - 07/22/12 05:19 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
tudorart Offline


Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 171
Loc: Transylvania, Romania, EU
Originally Posted By: dparm
The specs for that Trophy 0w40 are the best I've ever seen for a 0w40. They have the same KV values as Mobil 1 0w40 but with a higher HTHS. This should make it even more shear-resistant.

While Redline 0w40 still has a higher VI, it is also thicker with higher KV values and HTHS of 4.0. The same can be said for Liqui-Moly Synthoil Energy 0w40 which has higher KV values but HTHS of only 3.6.


Thanks for posting all this. Is there a way we can get some safety data sheets? I can't find the website you got this from. In which country/website was it launched ?

Red Line also has a better pour point.

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#2691943 - 07/22/12 05:30 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: tudorart]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 8986
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Pour point is of virtually no importance other than trying to determine base oil make-up and is a misleading spec' at best. Yes RL has very low PPs but their oils do not have especially low MRV stat's at all and are not good extreme cold performers.
Of course this is usually totally academic in a high performance oil.
_________________________
'74 Lotus Europa - 5W-50,VSOT
'86 Porsche 928S - TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40 blend
'96 BMW 328i - Idemitsu 0W-20/M1 0W-40 "
'94 Caterham 7 - Sustina 0W-20

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#2691949 - 07/22/12 05:36 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 6518
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
Yes, glad I still have some OLD, higher V.I. formula 0W-20 left. wink

Joey kept on saying the 0W-40 would be available here by 8/1 or so.
Is the U.S. release/availability still on schedule for that date??
_________________________
2000 Z28 1SC 6 speed 165K HARD miles!
Sustina 0W-20, M1 0W-40 (60/40 mix), Amsoil EaO 64 filter
Millers CRX 75-140 NT/4oz. XL-3, RL MTL, 11S

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#2691965 - 07/22/12 05:53 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
dparm Online   happy


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 11790
Loc: Lombard, IL
I actually emailed a few of the sources I've bought from in the past to find out.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Mobil 1 0w40 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#2691981 - 07/22/12 06:06 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: CATERHAM]
tudorart Offline


Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 171
Loc: Transylvania, Romania, EU
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Pour point is of virtually no importance other than trying to determine base oil make-up and is a misleading spec' at best. Yes RL has very low PPs but their oils do not have especially low MRV stat's at all and are not good extreme cold performers.
Of course this is usually totally academic in a high performance oil.

I totally agree. I mentioned for the sake of base oil debate:
diester vs polyolester :-) even though I think Motuls's PP is due to grIII base in there.
I personally like the lower TBN...
They sure get very close to RedLine specs.

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#2692024 - 07/22/12 06:40 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: tudorart]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 8986
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
You think 300V uses GP III oils? I don't know but would be very surprised if they did in their top line race oil.
PP is not a reliable indicator of the quality of the base oils used. NOACK is but Motul doesn't give volatility figures IIRC.
_________________________
'74 Lotus Europa - 5W-50,VSOT
'86 Porsche 928S - TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40 blend
'96 BMW 328i - Idemitsu 0W-20/M1 0W-40 "
'94 Caterham 7 - Sustina 0W-20

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#2692047 - 07/22/12 07:04 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
dparm Online   happy


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 11790
Loc: Lombard, IL
Group III might be a carrier for additives. I doubt it's in any significant quantity.

For some reason the MSDS sheet on their website keeps redirecting me to the homepage.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Mobil 1 0w40 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#2692085 - 07/22/12 07:53 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
chubbs1 Offline


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4574
Loc: Merritt Island FL, USA
Originally Posted By: dparm
Group III might be a carrier for additives. I doubt it's in any significant quantity.

For some reason the MSDS sheet on their website keeps redirecting me to the homepage.



Grp III is a poor carrier so that isn't the reason. In fact Esters are very good carriers in and of themselves. I would not pay for their 0w40 over M1 0w40 anyway.
_________________________
'12 Charger SXT
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#2692106 - 07/22/12 08:15 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
dparm Online   happy


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 11790
Loc: Lombard, IL
Wait, which IS the good carrier group then?
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Mobil 1 0w40 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#2692225 - 07/22/12 09:40 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
dparm Online   happy


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 11790
Loc: Lombard, IL
Just talked to a supplier, they said Ester Core probably won't be released until the regular 300V inventories are depleted.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Mobil 1 0w40 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#2692398 - 07/23/12 03:09 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 9789
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Are they going to call it Ecore for short? wink
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#2692473 - 07/23/12 07:00 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: Garak]
BobsArmory Offline


Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 590
Loc: Home of the CTS-V
Originally Posted By: Garak
Are they going to call it Ecore for short? wink


You had to go there didn't you? whistle
_________________________
Keeping the forces of evil at bay.
2007 Cadillac STS
2009 Chevy Silverado

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#2692505 - 07/23/12 07:58 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: CATERHAM]
tudorart Offline


Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 171
Loc: Transylvania, Romania, EU
Hope this link works. It'll take you to Google Drive
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxnjLrqu5mkvMVBBUWNnQzI2WTA

In case it doesn't work here's what it sais:
INDEX: 649-467-00-8
CAS: 64742-54-7
EC: 265-157-1
DISTILLATES (PETROLEUM), HYDROTREATED HEAVY PARAFFINIC
25 <= x % < 50

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#2692710 - 07/23/12 11:20 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
dparm Online   happy


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 11790
Loc: Lombard, IL
Interesting. That's the 5w40. I wonder if the other varieties are very different. Do you have the old MSDS?
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Mobil 1 0w40 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#2692760 - 07/23/12 12:32 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: chubbs1]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 8986
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Originally Posted By: dparm

I would not pay for their 0w40 over M1 0w40 anyway.

With Motul 300V at more than twice the price of M1 0W-40 I wouldn't either.
In fact with Red Line being relatively cheap here in NA, it's hard to beat in an ester based oil over the more expensive Motul. I'd prefer RL 0W-30, 0W-40 and 5W-50 to all of the 30wt and heavier Motul oils. With HTHSVs ranging from 3.2cP to 5.6cP and a VI no lower than 183 you can mix and match to make whatever you want in that viscosity range.
_________________________
'74 Lotus Europa - 5W-50,VSOT
'86 Porsche 928S - TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40 blend
'96 BMW 328i - Idemitsu 0W-20/M1 0W-40 "
'94 Caterham 7 - Sustina 0W-20

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#2692801 - 07/23/12 01:15 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
dparm Online   happy


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 11790
Loc: Lombard, IL
Agree that by specs and pricing alone the 300V is not a good value. But without seeing any UOAs (or even VOAs) we can't be certain.

I will probably try it out regardless. Thank God this car doesn't need 10L like the old one did...
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Mobil 1 0w40 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#2692985 - 07/23/12 03:17 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 6518
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
Originally Posted By: dparm
Agree that by specs and pricing alone the 300V is not a good value. But without seeing any UOAs (or even VOAs) we can't be certain.

I will probably try it out regardless.


Same here, and although EVERYONE on here states, "basestocks alone do not a great oil make" (just like they do for addpacks), it does appear that Motul's basestocks beat BOTH Mobil's 0W-40 AND Red Line's 0W-40 basestocks, and at least match them on addpacks.

So who knows?? shrug Time and use alone will tell. wink
_________________________
2000 Z28 1SC 6 speed 165K HARD miles!
Sustina 0W-20, M1 0W-40 (60/40 mix), Amsoil EaO 64 filter
Millers CRX 75-140 NT/4oz. XL-3, RL MTL, 11S

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#2692990 - 07/23/12 03:23 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
dparm Online   happy


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 11790
Loc: Lombard, IL
Exactly, that's why I plan to try it out.

I've been meaning to call Joey lately, maybe I'll ask him for some details on the new Core basestock.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Mobil 1 0w40 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#2693061 - 07/23/12 04:39 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
tudorart Offline


Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 171
Loc: Transylvania, Romania, EU

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#2825530 - 12/06/12 03:11 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: CATERHAM]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Originally Posted By: dparm

I would not pay for their 0w40 over M1 0w40 anyway.

With Motul 300V at more than twice the price of M1 0W-40 I wouldn't either.


I'm sorry, don't want to open the can of worms, but the only time that M1 0W-40 gets close to Motul 300V is on paper, in the real life (and especially if you track your car) its ridiculous to compare them. Motul 300V is a ¨boutique¨ high performance ester oil and Mobil 1 is a group 3 ¨synthetic¨, on the shelf one. I have used both and IMO no comparison is posible.

I think the big difference between the prices of both oils is not a casualty.
_________________________
BMW 323ti compact - Motul 300V Competition 15W-50
Motul Products in LSD, tranny, brakes

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#2825572 - 12/06/12 05:55 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
OpelFever Offline


Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 143
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: turbokick


I'm sorry, don't want to open the can of worms, but the only time that M1 0W-40 gets close to Motul 300V is on paper, in the real life (and especially if you track your car) its ridiculous to compare them. Motul 300V is a ¨boutique¨ high performance ester oil and Mobil 1 is a group 3 ¨synthetic¨, on the shelf one. I have used both and IMO no comparison is posible.

I think the big difference between the prices of both oils is not a casualty.


According to this oil test Gokhan posted the expensive boutique-oils don't look so good.

http://bmwservice.livejournal.com/27699.html

Despite all the godly PAO and esters and whatnot the results are not what you would expect.
_________________________
2000 Toyota Corolla 1.6 VVT-i (Mobil 1 0w-40)
1984 Honda CRX 1.5 (Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40)

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#2825582 - 12/06/12 06:25 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: OpelFever]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
Originally Posted By: OpelFever
Originally Posted By: turbokick




According to this oil test Gokhan posted the expensive boutique-oils don't look so good.

http://bmwservice.livejournal.com/27699.html

Despite all the godly PAO and esters and whatnot the results are not what you would expect.



As I said I don't expect anything, I have used them (M1 for years) and I know from personal experience (on the track) that Motul 300V performs way better compared to Mobil 1. When you hold your engin above 5000rpm for some time the difference became quite noticeable.
Try making a whole drift/track day and you'll see what's the difference between PAO/Ester high-priced oils and the group 3 ¨synthetics¨.

If you drive ¨granny style¨ you can live your whole life without seeing any difference except the higher price, but as far as you begin practicing some motorsports discipline you'll see that nobody pays more bucks for the same thing and that more expensive things cost more for a reason.
_________________________
BMW 323ti compact - Motul 300V Competition 15W-50
Motul Products in LSD, tranny, brakes

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#2825666 - 12/06/12 09:07 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: OpelFever]
Tom NJ Offline


Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 1588
Loc: New Jersey & Virginia
Originally Posted By: OpelFever

According to this oil test Gokhan posted the expensive boutique-oils don't look so good.

http://bmwservice.livejournal.com/27699.html

Despite all the godly PAO and esters and whatnot the results are not what you would expect.


Cooking an oil at over 700°F in a glass flask and visually evaluating the sludge formed is utterly meaningless. The conditions are not even close to an automotive engine and no correlation to engine performance has been established. No scientific conclusions whatsoever can be drawn from such testing, and the results are more apt to mislead than guide.

The engine and/or fleet tests conducted for certification under API, ILSAC, and ACEA standards are run is actual engines under very severe conditions with standardized equipment and procedures and all variables under control. These are the only scientifically valid methods for evaluating motor oil performance in engines. Everything else is marketing.

Your best guide for selecting motor oils is certification under the official specifications relevant to your engine/environment/driving pattern.

Tom NJ

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#2825751 - 12/06/12 10:01 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: Tom NJ]
OpelFever Offline


Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 143
Loc: Finland
While I agree with everything you posted, I would like some kind of rational explanation as to why some of the oils left almost no residue while others left a lot of burned sludge?

Eventhough there may be no relevance to actual engine operation, it's odd that similarly specced oils react so differently to heat.

As far as marketing goes, I don't think the test favoured any brand or specific oil and was more of an armchair science project.
_________________________
2000 Toyota Corolla 1.6 VVT-i (Mobil 1 0w-40)
1984 Honda CRX 1.5 (Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40)

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#2825765 - 12/06/12 10:10 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: Tom NJ]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 28962
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: OpelFever

According to this oil test Gokhan posted the expensive boutique-oils don't look so good.

http://bmwservice.livejournal.com/27699.html

Despite all the godly PAO and esters and whatnot the results are not what you would expect.


Cooking an oil at over 700°F in a glass flask and visually evaluating the sludge formed is utterly meaningless. The conditions are not even close to an automotive engine and no correlation to engine performance has been established. No scientific conclusions whatsoever can be drawn from such testing, and the results are more apt to mislead than guide.

The engine and/or fleet tests conducted for certification under API, ILSAC, and ACEA standards are run is actual engines under very severe conditions with standardized equipment and procedures and all variables under control. These are the only scientifically valid methods for evaluating motor oil performance in engines. Everything else is marketing.

Your best guide for selecting motor oils is certification under the official specifications relevant to your engine/environment/driving pattern.

Tom NJ


thumbsup approved

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#2825770 - 12/06/12 10:12 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: Tom NJ]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 24989
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: OpelFever

According to this oil test Gokhan posted the expensive boutique-oils don't look so good.

http://bmwservice.livejournal.com/27699.html

Despite all the godly PAO and esters and whatnot the results are not what you would expect.


Cooking an oil at over 700°F in a glass flask and visually evaluating the sludge formed is utterly meaningless. The conditions are not even close to an automotive engine and no correlation to engine performance has been established. No scientific conclusions whatsoever can be drawn from such testing, and the results are more apt to mislead than guide.

The engine and/or fleet tests conducted for certification under API, ILSAC, and ACEA standards are run is actual engines under very severe conditions with standardized equipment and procedures and all variables under control. These are the only scientifically valid methods for evaluating motor oil performance in engines. Everything else is marketing.

Your best guide for selecting motor oils is certification under the official specifications relevant to your engine/environment/driving pattern.

Tom NJ


Extremely well put! thumbsup
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#2825778 - 12/06/12 10:18 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
gpshumway Offline


Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 377
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
The exact deposit composition for each oil is something which would require lots of testing to determine, but really, what's the point? Your engine is going to have much bigger problems than sludge if your oil sees temperatures over 500*F, heck over 300*F usually spells trouble. The standard NOACK test is as extreme as any test needs to be.

Ester based oils were first developed for gas turbine engines where the operating temperatures are substantially higher than piston engines. In those applications esters are the only choice, but in road going piston engines other factors are much more important than ultra-high temperature stability.
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#2825840 - 12/06/12 11:16 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: OpelFever]
Tom NJ Offline


Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 1588
Loc: New Jersey & Virginia
Originally Posted By: OpelFever
While I agree with everything you posted, I would like some kind of rational explanation as to why some of the oils left almost no residue while others left a lot of burned sludge?

Eventhough there may be no relevance to actual engine operation, it's odd that similarly specced oils react so differently to heat.

As far as marketing goes, I don't think the test favoured any brand or specific oil and was more of an armchair science project.


700°F is beyond the thermal stability on many components in motor oil, and the rate of oxidation is thousands of time higher than what an engine sees. The chemical reactions that take place under these conditions bear no resemblance to the reactions taking place in an engine. An additive that out performs all others in an engine may fall apart at 700°F, but who cares if it never sees those temperatures. If you ran the test at 1,000°F for ten hours, all of the oils would turn to carbon, but that doesn't mean they are all the same.

My marketing comment refers to companies that use non-standard tests to promote their products.

Tom NJ

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#2825852 - 12/06/12 11:26 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: Tom NJ]
bluesubie Online   content


Registered: 08/04/03
Posts: 1765
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ

My marketing comment refers to companies that use non-standard tests to promote their products.

Tom NJ

Before you know it, companies will be using machines made for testing gear oils to market their engine oils. Oh wait, nevermind! LOL

-Dennis
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#2825860 - 12/06/12 11:32 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
robertcope Offline


Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 495
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By: turbokick

As I said I don't expect anything, I have used them (M1 for years) and I know from personal experience (on the track) that Motul 300V performs way better compared to Mobil 1. When you hold your engin above 5000rpm for some time the difference became quite noticeable.
Try making a whole drift/track day and you'll see what's the difference between PAO/Ester high-priced oils and the group 3 ¨synthetics¨.


I'll bite on this one. I've had my car on track for about 45 days this year alone. Nobody would accuse me of being a "granny" driver. I've run M1 0W40, RL 0W30, and RL 20WT Race oil. I can't tell a difference between them. What am I doing wrong? What big difference should I be noticing?



robert


Edited by Bill in Utah (12/08/12 09:56 AM)
Edit Reason: please embed the videos to prevent them from being removed

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#2825971 - 12/06/12 01:21 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: Tom NJ]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ

700°F is beyond the thermal stability on many components in motor oil, and the rate of oxidation is thousands of time higher than what an engine sees. The chemical reactions that take place under these conditions bear no resemblance to the reactions taking place in an engine. An additive that out performs all others in an engine may fall apart at 700°F, but who cares if it never sees those temperatures. If you ran the test at 1,000°F for ten hours, all of the oils would turn to carbon, but that doesn't mean they are all the same.

My marketing comment refers to companies that use non-standard tests to promote their products.

Tom NJ


Quite well formulated, I completly agree.

It is proved that all kind of tests on engine oils, which consist of cooking above 700F, friction machines etc. are irrelevant to a real engine oil test, don't prove or disprove anything, create conditions that have nothing to do with the lubrication of an engine.
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#2825985 - 12/06/12 01:28 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: robertcope]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
Originally Posted By: robertcope

I'll bite on this one. I've had my car on track for about 45 days this year alone. Nobody would accuse me of being a "granny" driver. I've run M1 0W40, RL 0W30, and RL 20WT Race oil. I can't tell a difference between them. What am I doing wrong? What big difference should I be noticing?



robert




It's your car man, you can use whatever you want. If you think that holding an engine near the rev. limiter for hours in a 40C summer day is the same with a 7$ per cuart oil and with a 20$ per cuart one, it's your choice.
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#2825993 - 12/06/12 01:38 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
robertcope Offline


Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 495
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By: turbokick

It's your car man, you can use whatever you want. If you think that holding an engine near the rev. limiter for hours in a 40C summer day is the same with a 7$ per cuart oil and with a 20$ per cuart one, it's your choice.


I do drive in the summer here in Texas, where it can easily be 100F+ ambient and well over 120F+ on the asphalt. So far my motors have all held together just fine. I've got about 30K track miles on this one.

You clearly stated that the difference was big and noticeable. What should I be feeling for when I'm out on the track this weekend?

robert

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#2826039 - 12/06/12 02:16 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: bluesubie]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 28962
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ

My marketing comment refers to companies that use non-standard tests to promote their products.

Tom NJ

Before you know it, companies will be using machines made for testing gear oils to market their engine oils. Oh wait, nevermind! LOL

-Dennis


crackmeup

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#2826060 - 12/06/12 02:28 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
Nickdfresh Offline


Registered: 03/15/06
Posts: 3161
Loc: Buffalo, NY
How does anyone pretend to know the composition of Mobil 1 0W-40? It may indeed contain group III+, but I bet a tidy sum that it's at least a blend of III+ and IV...


Edited by Nickdfresh (12/06/12 02:28 PM)

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#2826576 - 12/06/12 11:20 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: Nickdfresh]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 8801
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
How does anyone pretend to know the composition of Mobil 1 0W-40?

Just like how they pretend to know the composition of most oils: Repetition.
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#2826579 - 12/06/12 11:23 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: d00df00d]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 24989
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
How does anyone pretend to know the composition of Mobil 1 0W-40?

Repetition.


LOL! Not that it matters anyway. The oil has an arms-long list of certs and approvals, holds its grade, has a very low NOACK and lasts an extremely long time in use. It is an exceptional lubricant.
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#2826584 - 12/06/12 11:29 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: OVERKILL]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 8801
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
LOL! Not that it matters anyway. The oil has an arms-long list of certs and approvals, holds its grade, has a very low NOACK and lasts an extremely long time in use. It is an exceptional lubricant.

What are you, a Mobil 1 fanboy? Keep that stuff to yourself. Some of us don't have blind faith in everything the big companies tell us.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go buy this oil I read about on the Internet.
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#2826598 - 12/06/12 11:41 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: d00df00d]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 24989
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
LOL! Not that it matters anyway. The oil has an arms-long list of certs and approvals, holds its grade, has a very low NOACK and lasts an extremely long time in use. It is an exceptional lubricant.

What are you, a Mobil 1 fanboy? Keep that stuff to yourself. Some of us don't have blind faith in everything the big companies tell us.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go buy this oil I read about on the Internet.


BAH HAHAHHAHA! Well done sir grin
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#2826618 - 12/07/12 12:17 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: robertcope]
04SVT Offline


Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 133
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: robertcope
Originally Posted By: turbokick

It's your car man, you can use whatever you want. If you think that holding an engine near the rev. limiter for hours in a 40C summer day is the same with a 7$ per cuart oil and with a 20$ per cuart one, it's your choice.


I do drive in the summer here in Texas, where it can easily be 100F+ ambient and well over 120F+ on the asphalt. So far my motors have all held together just fine. I've got about 30K track miles on this one.

You clearly stated that the difference was big and noticeable. What should I be feeling for when I'm out on the track this weekend?

robert


Turbokick, I'm curious of the answer to this as well. I've never notice a real world difference between the two...and I'm a bit inclined to believe I have an engine that produces quite a bit more power than 95% of the cars on a road coarse track.


Edited by 04SVT (12/07/12 12:20 AM)

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#2826644 - 12/07/12 01:59 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: Nickdfresh]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
How does anyone pretend to know the composition of Mobil 1 0W-40? It may indeed contain group III+, but I bet a tidy sum that it's at least a blend of III+ and IV...


Mobil 1 themselves confessed some time ago that group 4 and 5 basestock are too expensive to produce, that's why they replace them with a cheeper product invented by them called Visom

IMO Mobil 1 nowadays is a group 3 ¨synthetic¨, long way far from Motul 300V series


Edited by turbokick (12/07/12 02:02 AM)
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#2826649 - 12/07/12 02:27 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: 04SVT]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
Originally Posted By: 04SVT
Originally Posted By: robertcope
Originally Posted By: turbokick

It's your car man, you can use whatever you want. If you think that holding an engine near the rev. limiter for hours in a 40C summer day is the same with a 7$ per cuart oil and with a 20$ per cuart one, it's your choice.


I do drive in the summer here in Texas, where it can easily be 100F+ ambient and well over 120F+ on the asphalt. So far my motors have all held together just fine. I've got about 30K track miles on this one.

You clearly stated that the difference was big and noticeable. What should I be feeling for when I'm out on the track this weekend?

robert


Turbokick, I'm curious of the answer to this as well. I've never notice a real world difference between the two...and I'm a bit inclined to believe I have an engine that produces quite a bit more power than 95% of the cars on a road coarse track.



Well, I sincerely can not know what you should feel when beeing on the track, if in 30K ¨track miles¨ you dont't have it clear, there's absolutely no way for me to know it.

In all those hard 30K ¨track miles¨ never happened to you when putting some cheep semi-synthetic/hydrocrack oil in your engine, after some HARD drive (constant high rpm, reaching the rev. limiter oftenly), to hear your hydraulic lifters (if your car has them) ticking? I and many more people (everyone that tracks his car) have experienced such a phenomenon at least one time in our ¨track life¨. It is due to the fact that cheep oil when getting hot lose pressure and doesn't lubricate well enough.
The consequences of such a process (driving in high rpm. with low oil pressure) can be catastrophic for your engine.

One of the very few oils with which I haven't experienced lifter ticking after some track time is Motul 300V (there were some others, but all of them were in that price-range, and inspite of all weren't so good as Motul 300V).

Now, as I told you, it's your car, and you service it as you want.


Edited by turbokick (12/07/12 02:37 AM)
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#2826667 - 12/07/12 05:10 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 8801
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: turbokick
Mobil 1 themselves confessed some time ago that group 4 and 5 basestock are too expensive to produce, that's why they replace them with a cheeper product invented by them called Visom

VISOM only replaces certain types of PAO. It replaces them not only because it's cheaper, but because it performs very similarly in the ways that matter.

Also, Mobil started adding heavy PAO around the same time as they introduced VISOM, and heavy PAO is expensive.

Also, VISOM is several years old by now, and in that time Mobil 1 products have been reformulated several times.

Most importantly, all they said about VISOM is basically "hey, here's this new stuff that we can use to replace PAO sometimes." They still haven't actually explained exactly what any of their products was made of at the time, and they certainly haven't said anything along those lines since then.
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#2826696 - 12/07/12 06:43 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: d00df00d]
bluesubie Online   content


Registered: 08/04/03
Posts: 1765
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
They still haven't actually explained exactly what any of their products was made of at the time, and they certainly haven't said anything along those lines since then.

IMO, this is what people need to remember about any oil. Just because we have information that a certain oil uses certain base stocks, it doesn't mean that the company uses 100% of those base stocks.

And some people think that an MSDS is an all inclusive list of ingredients in oil but that just isn't the case.

-Dennis
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#2826707 - 12/07/12 07:03 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: d00df00d]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
[u]
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: turbokick
Mobil 1 themselves confessed some time ago that group 4 and 5 basestock are too expensive to produce, that's why they replace them with a cheeper product invented by them called Visom

VISOM only replaces certain types of PAO. It replaces them not only because it's cheaper, but because it performs very similarly in the ways that matter.

Also, Mobil started adding heavy PAO around the same time as they introduced VISOM, and heavy PAO is expensive.

Also, VISOM is several years old by now, and in that time Mobil 1 products have been reformulated several times.

Most importantly, all they said about VISOM is basically "hey, here's this new stuff that we can use to replace PAO sometimes." They still haven't actually explained exactly what any of their products was made of at the time, and they certainly haven't said anything along those lines since then.


Sorry man, but actually you add nothing to this thread with this post and you actually don't disprove any statement I did.

I said that Mobil 1 introduced Visom because PAO was more expensive and you admit it in your post.

I said that the introduction of Visom was some years ago (not yesterday, for sure) and you repeat it.

It's not true that Mobil 1 introduced Visom in the same time when they introduced PAO. M1 was a group 4/5 supreme quality oil untill they changed their formulations back in 2005...

It was said clear enough by Mobil 1 themselves, some years ago, that they introduce Visom for being cheeper than PAO and for giving ALMOST the same level of performance, but they never said it was really as good as PAO (and my experience doesn't show it really is), only that it has symilar characteristics and be way cheeper, which does't incline me to think that it is as good as PAO itself.

I don't say Mobil 1 is a bad oil, I only say that there is no fair way to compare it with a true synthetic, top-end racing ester lubricant like Motul 300V, M1 is good for what it is, but it's not a first class racing oil like 300V and it is ridiculous to compare them.
Do you intent to convince me that a product that costs 3 times less than other product can be equally good, because if you do it I go out.


Edited by turbokick (12/07/12 07:07 AM)
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#2826730 - 12/07/12 07:30 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 8801
Loc: PA
Sorry. I guess the details were confusing. Here's a super-simple version of what I said.

1. You said that VISOM replaced group 4 and 5 base stocks. VISOM only replaced some group 4 base stocks.
2. You said VISOM took over because it's cheaper. There were more reasons than that.
3. You implied that Mobil 1 0w-40 isn't made with group 4 and 5 base stocks. There is no evidence for that.

As for convincing you of anything, that's not my intention. Least of all do I want to talk you out of 300V, which is a fine product. And frankly, in the end, I really don't care what your opinion is. I care about the quality of information on the website, and I like engaging in debates that get me to test my own views and my ability to articulate them.
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#2826770 - 12/07/12 08:10 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: d00df00d]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Sorry. I guess the details were confusing. Here's a super-simple version of what I said.

1. You said that VISOM replaced group 4 and 5 base stocks. VISOM only replaced some group 4 base stocks.
2. You said VISOM took over because it's cheaper. There were more reasons than that.
3. You implied that Mobil 1 0w-40 isn't made with group 4 and 5 base stocks. There is no evidence for that.

As for convincing you of anything, that's not my intention. Least of all do I want to talk you out of 300V, which is a fine product. And frankly, in the end, I really don't care what your opinion is. I care about the quality of information on the website, and I like engaging in debates that get me to test my own views and my ability to articulate them.



1. You even help me then, I also know that Visom replaced only group 4 basestocks, then I think it's better even not to mention some group 5 in the whole picture (if it's expensive for you to put some PAO in your products, how can we expect some esters?)
2. Mobil 1 only stated this one (being Visom more easy and cheep to achieve), for sure this is the main reason for Visom's introduccion and not the performance of their oils itself.
3. Here you contradict yourself, read your post.


Edited by turbokick (12/07/12 08:13 AM)
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#2826783 - 12/07/12 08:29 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: d00df00d]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Sorry.

As for convincing you of anything, that's not my intention. Least of all do I want to talk you out of 300V, which is a fine product. And frankly, in the end, I really don't care what your opinion is. I care about the quality of information on the website, and I like engaging in debates that get me to test my own views and my ability to articulate them.


I only enterd in this thread because some people said they will always take M1 0W-40 over Motul 300V 0W-40 and I think that's ridiculous.
It's clear that you won't change my mind, nor is mine intention to change yours, just saw something unlogic and rare IMO and reacted.

My experience isn't based on internet debates, but on real life experience. Frankly I don't care of what your opinion is neither, just love the truth and can't tolerate lies fed by old time legends and patriotic [censored].
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#2826834 - 12/07/12 09:16 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 24989
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: turbokick


1. You even help me then, I also know that Visom replaced only group 4 basestocks, then I think it's better even not to mention some group 5 in the whole picture (if it's expensive for you to put some PAO in your products, how can we expect some esters?)


That's quite the unfounded extrapolation. Because a company is willing to substitute some of their PAO base for their proprietary Group III+ base oil in certain applications, that automatically means they are cheapening the product on the whole, removing anything expensive from the mix like Esters or AN's?

Quote:
2. Mobil 1 only stated this one (being Visom more easy and cheep to achieve), for sure this is the main reason for Visom's introduccion and not the performance of their oils itself.
3. Here you contradict yourself, read your post.


No.

VISOM was introduced as a stop-gap. XOM had (has?) intentions on changing out some of their PAO bases for GTL when it was readily available in their supply chain. GTL was supposed to be significantly less expensive to produce, have extremely low volatility and match PAO in performance.

The paper you are thinking of with reference to Mobil's implementation of VISOM came out in 2003. Here is a quote from it:

Originally Posted By: ExxonMobil
"Wax is wax, and isomerized wax is essentially the same stuff," Cox said. "It doesn't matter where it comes from." Made from waxy feedstocks and using the same catalyst systems as GTL will use, Visom will provide valuable experience in formulating with GTL-type base stocks, prior to their arrival later in the decade, he said.


Link: http://www.lubereport.com/e_article000130105.cfm

XOM was expected to have GTL production ramped up by 2010. However in 2007, they abandoned the Qatar GTL project that they were working on. One can only assume that this has meant continued reliance on using VISOM and PAO to fulfill their base stock needs.


XOM's VISOM information page with information on the two VISOM bases them make, 4 and 6:
http://www.exxonmobil.com/UK-English/Basestocks/PDS/GLXXENBSKEMVisom.aspx



ExxonMobil is still working on actually making their own GTL:
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/...nar-1616274.htm

Keep in mind, XOM is the world's largest producer of PAO, AN's and Ester base stocks. They have a vested interest in continuing to produce and use those products. However, leveraging their VISOM product, they can get away with using less PAO in many of their lubricants while having a final product that performs the same.
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#2826846 - 12/07/12 09:28 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
Nickdfresh Offline


Registered: 03/15/06
Posts: 3161
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted By: turbokick
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
How does anyone pretend to know the composition of Mobil 1 0W-40? It may indeed contain group III+, but I bet a tidy sum that it's at least a blend of III+ and IV...


Mobil 1 themselves confessed some time ago that group 4 and 5 basestock are too expensive to produce, that's why they replace them with a cheeper product invented by them called Visom

IMO Mobil 1 nowadays is a group 3 ¨synthetic¨, long way far from Motul 300V series


That's not exactly what they said. I believe it had more to do with the promotion of a the use of Group III+ Visom IIRC. That in no way means that it is necessarily the dominant base-stock in all Mobil 1 oils...

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#2826851 - 12/07/12 09:30 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: OVERKILL]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 28962
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: turbokick


1. You even help me then, I also know that Visom replaced only group 4 basestocks, then I think it's better even not to mention some group 5 in the whole picture (if it's expensive for you to put some PAO in your products, how can we expect some esters?)


That's quite the unfounded extrapolation. Because a company is willing to substitute some of their PAO base for their proprietary Group III+ base oil in certain applications, that automatically means they are cheapening the product on the whole, removing anything expensive from the mix like Esters or AN's?

Quote:
2. Mobil 1 only stated this one (being Visom more easy and cheep to achieve), for sure this is the main reason for Visom's introduccion and not the performance of their oils itself.
3. Here you contradict yourself, read your post.


No.

VISOM was introduced as a stop-gap. XOM had (has?) intentions on changing out some of their PAO bases for GTL when it was readily available in their supply chain. GTL was supposed to be significantly less expensive to produce, have extremely low volatility and match PAO in performance.

The paper you are thinking of with reference to Mobil's implementation of VISOM came out in 2003. Here is a quote from it:

Originally Posted By: ExxonMobil
"Wax is wax, and isomerized wax is essentially the same stuff," Cox said. "It doesn't matter where it comes from." Made from waxy feedstocks and using the same catalyst systems as GTL will use, Visom will provide valuable experience in formulating with GTL-type base stocks, prior to their arrival later in the decade, he said.


Link: http://www.lubereport.com/e_article000130105.cfm

XOM was expected to have GTL production ramped up by 2010. However in 2007, they abandoned the Qatar GTL project that they were working on. One can only assume that this has meant continued reliance on using VISOM and PAO to fulfill their base stock needs.


XOM's VISOM information page with information on the two VISOM bases them make, 4 and 6:
http://www.exxonmobil.com/UK-English/Basestocks/PDS/GLXXENBSKEMVisom.aspx



ExxonMobil is still working on actually making their own GTL:
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/...nar-1616274.htm

Keep in mind, XOM is the world's largest producer of PAO, AN's and Ester base stocks. They have a vested interest in continuing to produce and use those products. However, leveraging their VISOM product, they can get away with using less PAO in many of their lubricants while having a final product that performs the same.


Spot on. approved

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#2826855 - 12/07/12 09:35 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
Nickdfresh Offline


Registered: 03/15/06
Posts: 3161
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted By: turbokick
[u]
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: turbokick
Mobil 1 themselves confessed some time ago that group 4 and 5 basestock are too expensive to produce, that's why they replace them with a cheeper product invented by them called Visom

VISOM only replaces certain types of PAO. It replaces them not only because it's cheaper, but because it performs very similarly in the ways that matter.

Also, Mobil started adding heavy PAO around the same time as they introduced VISOM, and heavy PAO is expensive.

Also, VISOM is several years old by now, and in that time Mobil 1 products have been reformulated several times.

Most importantly, all they said about VISOM is basically "hey, here's this new stuff that we can use to replace PAO sometimes." They still haven't actually explained exactly what any of their products was made of at the time, and they certainly haven't said anything along those lines since then.


Sorry man, but actually you add nothing to this thread with this post and you actually don't disprove any statement I did.

...


How can someone disprove a "statement" that is little more than conjecture and opinion, and proves nothing?

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#2826904 - 12/07/12 10:16 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
I really see there's no sence to keep responding. It's like arguing with your radio. Keep choozing Mobil 1 over Motul 300V, these cars are yours.

I frankly knew it was useless to share some information about Mobil 1 in a USA forum.

Patriotism>Quality.
_________________________
BMW 323ti compact - Motul 300V Competition 15W-50
Motul Products in LSD, tranny, brakes

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#2826907 - 12/07/12 10:20 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 28962
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: turbokick
I really see there's no sence to keep responding. It's like arguing with your radio. Keep choozing Mobil 1 over Motul 300V, these cars are yours.

I frankly knew it was useless to share some information about Mobil 1 in a USA forum.

Patriotism>Quality.



Has nothing to do with patriotism. It has everything to do with your overgeneralizations and completely inaccurate posts.

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#2826909 - 12/07/12 10:26 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: buster]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
Originally Posted By: buster
Has nothing to do with patriotism. It has everything to do with your overgeneralizations and completely inaccurate posts.



No. No way. What patriotism [censored]? Impossible...


Do you believe yourself? Who are you trying to lie?


Edited by turbokick (12/07/12 10:28 AM)
_________________________
BMW 323ti compact - Motul 300V Competition 15W-50
Motul Products in LSD, tranny, brakes

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#2826914 - 12/07/12 10:29 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 24989
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: turbokick
Originally Posted By: buster
Has nothing to do with patriotism. It has everything to do with your overgeneralizations and completely inaccurate posts.



No. No way. What patriotism [censored]? Impossible...


Do you believe yourself? Who are you trying to lie?


Are you French?

It's a legitimate question, considering you just called me American.........
_________________________
Network Engineer
00 BMW 328i
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#2826916 - 12/07/12 10:31 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
Nickdfresh Offline


Registered: 03/15/06
Posts: 3161
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted By: turbokick
I really see there's no sence to keep responding. It's like arguing with your radio. Keep choozing Mobil 1 over Motul 300V, these cars are yours.


I don't (currently) use either, but think both are excellent oils. Mobil 1 is just readily available. To get Motul for my old girl, I'd have to buy it on Amazon or travel several hundred miles for it. I can now get exotic, boutique lubes locally like Amsoil, Eneos, or Lubro Moly if I had incentive to pay the premium...

Quote:
I frankly knew it was useless to share some information about Mobil 1 in a USA forum.

Patriotism>Quality.



The problem isn't 'patriotism'. You just don't really seem to have much useful information...


Edited by Nickdfresh (12/07/12 10:33 AM)

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#2826924 - 12/07/12 10:35 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: buster]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: turbokick
I really see there's no sence to keep responding. It's like arguing with your radio. Keep choozing Mobil 1 over Motul 300V, these cars are yours.

I frankly knew it was useless to share some information about Mobil 1 in a USA forum.

Patriotism>Quality.



Has nothing to do with patriotism. It has everything to do with your overgeneralizations and completely inaccurate posts.



Can you show me the inaccuracy in my posts, because if not the inaccurate one is you...


Edited by turbokick (12/07/12 10:39 AM)
_________________________
BMW 323ti compact - Motul 300V Competition 15W-50
Motul Products in LSD, tranny, brakes

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#2826936 - 12/07/12 10:44 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: Nickdfresh]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
1.
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh

I don't (currently) use either, but think both are excellent oils. Mobil 1 is just readily available. To get Motul for my old girl, I'd have to buy it on Amazon or travel several hundred miles for it. I can now get exotic, boutique lubes locally like Amsoil, Eneos, or Lubro Moly if I had incentive to pay the premium...

Quote:
I frankly knew it was useless to share some information about Mobil 1 in a USA forum.

Patriotism>Quality.



2. The problem isn't 'patriotism'. You just don't really seem to have much useful information...


1. If readilly availability is your basic inspiration in engine oil-choise I see no reason to keep arguing.

2. If you didn't find enough information in what I state I see no use in keep arguing.
_________________________
BMW 323ti compact - Motul 300V Competition 15W-50
Motul Products in LSD, tranny, brakes

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#2826937 - 12/07/12 10:44 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
surfstar Offline


Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4052
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Hey guys, just stumbing on this thread...
...so you're saying the Motul will be the best oil for my commuter Civic?














grin2 wink

I mean it is the PCMO forum, right?

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#2826940 - 12/07/12 10:48 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 28962
Loc: NJ
Quote:
It's your car man, you can use whatever you want. If you think that holding an engine near the rev. limiter for hours in a 40C summer day is the same with a 7$ per cuart oil and with a 20$ per cuart one, it's your choice.


Many $7qt of oil can easily handle this. All of the Mobil 1 line in fact.


Quote:
Mobil 1 themselves confessed some time ago that group 4 and 5 basestock are too expensive to produce, that's why they replace them with a cheeper product invented by them called Visom

IMO Mobil 1 nowadays is a group 3 ¨synthetic¨, long way far from Motul 300V series


Wrong. Technology changes and the new Grp III+ base oils rival PAO and in some areas exceed them (solvency).

Mobil 1 is a mix of PAO/III+ and V base oils.


Quote:
I don't say Mobil 1 is a bad oil, I only say that there is no fair way to compare it with a true synthetic, top-end racing ester lubricant like Motul 300V, M1 is good for what it is, but it's not a first class racing oil like 300V and it is ridiculous to compare them.
Do you intent to convince me that a product that costs 3 times less than other product can be equally good, because if you do it I go out.


Mobil 1 makes racing oils, usually similar chemistry but with higher levels of ZDP. Mobil 1 0w40 is also considered a racing oil.

Quote:
only enterd in this thread because some people said they will always take M1 0W-40 over Motul 300V 0W-40 and I think that's ridiculous.


No, you're ridiculous. Mobil 1 0w40 is tried and true and has more approvals and testing behind it than Motul 0w40. It's also filled in many high performance cars.

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#2826953 - 12/07/12 11:03 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: buster]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
Originally Posted By: buster
Quote:
It's your car man, you can use whatever you want. If you think that holding an engine near the rev. limiter for hours in a 40C summer day is the same with a 7$ per cuart oil and with a 20$ per cuart one, it's your choice.


Many $7qt of oil can easily handle this. All of the Mobil 1 line in fact.


Quote:
Mobil 1 themselves confessed some time ago that group 4 and 5 basestock are too expensive to produce, that's why they replace them with a cheeper product invented by them called Visom

IMO Mobil 1 nowadays is a group 3 ¨synthetic¨, long way far from Motul 300V series


Wrong. Technology changes and the new Grp III+ base oils rival PAO and in some areas exceed them (solvency).

Mobil 1 is a mix of PAO/III+ and V base oils.


Quote:
I don't say Mobil 1 is a bad oil, I only say that there is no fair way to compare it with a true synthetic, top-end racing ester lubricant like Motul 300V, M1 is good for what it is, but it's not a first class racing oil like 300V and it is ridiculous to compare them.
Do you intent to convince me that a product that costs 3 times less than other product can be equally good, because if you do it I go out.


Mobil 1 makes racing oils, usually similar chemistry but with higher levels of ZDP. Mobil 1 0w40 is also considered a racing oil.

Quote:
only enterd in this thread because some people said they will always take M1 0W-40 over Motul 300V 0W-40 and I think that's ridiculous.


No, you're ridiculous. Mobil 1 0w40 is tried and true and has more approvals and testing behind it than Motul 0w40. It's also filled in many high performance cars.




What can be explained to someone who consider that the approvals an oil has are a demonstration of how good it is...

No REAL racing oil has any ACEA or API approvals for many reasons, if you don't know EVEN that it's useless to keep talking.
_________________________
BMW 323ti compact - Motul 300V Competition 15W-50
Motul Products in LSD, tranny, brakes

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#2826966 - 12/07/12 11:16 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 8801
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: turbokick
What can be explained to someone who consider that the approvals an oil has are a demonstration of how good it is...

About as much as can be explained to someone who thinks that racing oils are necessarily better than street oils for street cars.
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Castrol GTX 5w-20

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#2826970 - 12/07/12 11:21 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: buster]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
Originally Posted By: buster

Many $7qt of oil can easily handle this. All of the Mobil 1 line in fact.




Mobil 1 0w40 is also considered a racing oil.


No, you're ridiculous. Mobil 1 0w40 is tried and true and has more approvals and testing behind it than Motul 0w40. It's also filled in many high performance cars.




The ridiculous one is you, if Mobil 1 0W-40 is a race oil no comment...
_________________________
BMW 323ti compact - Motul 300V Competition 15W-50
Motul Products in LSD, tranny, brakes

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#2826976 - 12/07/12 11:22 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 24989
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: turbokick

What can be explained to someone who consider that the approvals an oil has are a demonstration of how good it is...

No REAL racing oil has any ACEA or API approvals for many reasons, if you don't know EVEN that it's useless to keep talking.


You clearly need to talk to the engineers at Mercedes and Porsche then and tell them to stop using M1 0w40 in their race cars at the 24hrs of LeMans. Obviously they are clueless dolts based on your position here.
_________________________
Network Engineer
00 BMW 328i
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#2826981 - 12/07/12 11:25 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: d00df00d]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: turbokick
What can be explained to someone who consider that the approvals an oil has are a demonstration of how good it is...

About as much as can be explained to someone who thinks that racing oils are necessarily better than street oils for street cars.



Not I began comparing Motul 300V with Mobil 1...
_________________________
BMW 323ti compact - Motul 300V Competition 15W-50
Motul Products in LSD, tranny, brakes

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#2826983 - 12/07/12 11:26 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: OVERKILL]
OpelFever Offline


Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 143
Loc: Finland
But the marketing people and some guy on the internet told me that if an oil costs alot of $ it has to be good! Even better if it contains unobtanium and has to be ordered from the other side of the world.
_________________________
2000 Toyota Corolla 1.6 VVT-i (Mobil 1 0w-40)
1984 Honda CRX 1.5 (Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40)

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#2826986 - 12/07/12 11:27 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: OpelFever]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 8801
Loc: PA
I love Finland.

Seriously. That's one of the reasons I bought a Nokia recently.
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Castrol GTX 5w-20

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#2826991 - 12/07/12 11:30 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: OVERKILL]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

You clearly need to talk to the engineers at Mercedes and Porsche then and tell them to stop using M1 0w40 in their race cars at the 24hrs of LeMans. Obviously they are clueless dolts based on your position here.



And you to talk with the ones that have chozen Motul over Castrol in so many BMWs (because BMW recomends Castrol), and with the ones that have chozen other brands for FIAT/Alfa Romeo/Lancia different of Selenia (FIAT/Alfa Romeo/Lancia recomend Selenia)...
_________________________
BMW 323ti compact - Motul 300V Competition 15W-50
Motul Products in LSD, tranny, brakes

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#2826994 - 12/07/12 11:32 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 24989
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: turbokick

What can be explained to someone who consider that the approvals an oil has are a demonstration of how good it is...

No REAL racing oil has any ACEA or API approvals for many reasons, if you don't know EVEN that it's useless to keep talking.


There is so much wrong with that statement I don't even know where to begin.....

No, the approvals an oil has doesn't prove anything about the lubricant at all. We need elves and fairies sprinkling pixie dust 'round our heads whilst we chant Gregorian, stomping our staffs on the ground to really know. Obviously the extensive testing performed by manufacturers and the oil companies to guarantee a level of performance with regards to specs met and certifications obtained is useless drivel compared to the reliance on blind faith, hyperbole and conjecture. Those are much better foundations with which to form a solid reference point from..... crzy
_________________________
Network Engineer
00 BMW 328i
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#2826997 - 12/07/12 11:34 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 24989
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: turbokick
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

You clearly need to talk to the engineers at Mercedes and Porsche then and tell them to stop using M1 0w40 in their race cars at the 24hrs of LeMans. Obviously they are clueless dolts based on your position here.



And you to talk with the ones that have chozen Motul over Castrol in so many BMWs (because BMW recomends Castrol), and with the ones that have chozen other brands for FIAT/Alfa Romeo/Lancia different of Selenia (FIAT/Alfa Romeo/Lancia recomend Selenia)...


People love using something the manufacturer doesn't endorse. That's human nature. What exactly does this prove, because as far as I can tell, absolutely nothing shrug

And it isn't like BMW, Porsche, Mercedes....etc don't have approval lists with oils other than the brands they have contracts with on them. I'm running M1 0w40 in my M5 because it is an LL-01 approved lubricant, which is what my car requires and I prefer Mobil to Castrol.
_________________________
Network Engineer
00 BMW 328i
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#2827006 - 12/07/12 11:46 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 28962
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: turbokick
Originally Posted By: buster

Many $7qt of oil can easily handle this. All of the Mobil 1 line in fact.




Mobil 1 0w40 is also considered a racing oil.


No, you're ridiculous. Mobil 1 0w40 is tried and true and has more approvals and testing behind it than Motul 0w40. It's also filled in many high performance cars.




The ridiculous one is you, if Mobil 1 0W-40 is a race oil no comment...


Yeah...it's soooo ridiculous.

http://www.mobil1racingstore.com/buyracinglubes.html


http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.aspx

BTW, I like Motul and think some of their oils are excellent.

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#2827008 - 12/07/12 11:46 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: OVERKILL]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


There is so much wrong with that statement I don't even know where to begin.....

No, the approvals an oil has doesn't prove anything about the lubricant at all. We need elves and fairies sprinkling pixie dust 'round our heads whilst we chant Gregorian, stomping our staffs on the ground to really know. Obviously the extensive testing performed by manufacturers and the oil companies to guarantee a level of performance with regards to specs met and certifications obtained is useless drivel compared to the reliance on blind faith, hyperbole and conjecture. Those are much better foundations with which to form a solid reference point from..... crzy


Sorry man, really... I expected something more from you, this post is quite weak. It's obvious you have nothing constructive to tell in this occasion, it's better not to waste your time.
Regards.
_________________________
BMW 323ti compact - Motul 300V Competition 15W-50
Motul Products in LSD, tranny, brakes

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#2827009 - 12/07/12 11:47 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: d00df00d]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 28962
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I love Finland.

Seriously. That's one of the reasons I bought a Nokia recently.


I like Finland too.

This has zero to do with patriotism. LOL. At least for me. Funny thought though.

USA! Moibl 1! USA! Mobil ! grin

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#2827036 - 12/07/12 12:00 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: buster]
OpelFever Offline


Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 143
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I love Finland.

Seriously. That's one of the reasons I bought a Nokia recently.


I like Finland too.

This has zero to do with patriotism. LOL. At least for me. Funny thought though.

USA! Moibl 1! USA! Mobil ! grin


You are both welcome to visit and get ripped off on oil LOL. Yesterday was independence day and I'm feeling so patriotic I'll provide a link to a Finnish oil:

http://www.delron.fi/english/car.htm
_________________________
2000 Toyota Corolla 1.6 VVT-i (Mobil 1 0w-40)
1984 Honda CRX 1.5 (Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40)

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#2827040 - 12/07/12 12:02 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: buster]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I love Finland.

Seriously. That's one of the reasons I bought a Nokia recently.


I like Finland too.

This has zero to do with patriotism. LOL. At least for me. Funny thought though.

USA! Moibl 1! USA! Mobil ! grin


I love it also, I love Scandinavian Peninsula thing, cheers Kimi, Mikko, and all the others great men from there.
_________________________
BMW 323ti compact - Motul 300V Competition 15W-50
Motul Products in LSD, tranny, brakes

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#2827089 - 12/07/12 12:29 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 24989
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: turbokick
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


There is so much wrong with that statement I don't even know where to begin.....

No, the approvals an oil has doesn't prove anything about the lubricant at all. We need elves and fairies sprinkling pixie dust 'round our heads whilst we chant Gregorian, stomping our staffs on the ground to really know. Obviously the extensive testing performed by manufacturers and the oil companies to guarantee a level of performance with regards to specs met and certifications obtained is useless drivel compared to the reliance on blind faith, hyperbole and conjecture. Those are much better foundations with which to form a solid reference point from..... crzy


Sorry man, really... I expected something more from you, this post is quite weak. It's obvious you have nothing constructive to tell in this occasion, it's better not to waste your time.
Regards.


No, you've got it quite backwards, it is you who are wasting my time. When you dismiss the value of major certs and approvals, you prove nothing other than the fact that you are extremely ignorant.

There are important distinctions to be made regarding the differences between a dedicated race lubricant, which is not designed for longevity, extended drain intervals or long term protection, and an oil that is tested EXTENSIVELY to provide long term protection and durability, extended drain interval capability AS WELL as the ability to hold its own as a race lubricant.

Mobil makes their own line of dedicated race oils, not unlike Motul's 300V series. They do not recommend these oils for use in daily drivers or regular passenger cars, since that is not their purpose. However, their 0w40 product has some significant overlap in this area, because not only is it designed and tested for use in a wide array of high performance applications with extended drain intervals and longevity as a focus, but it is ALSO used extensively in racing circles by those same manufacturers. That is SIGNIFICANT and discounting it because you want to toot the horn of a dedicated race lube with "ester" in the name and completely discount the significance of the testing that this particular oil goes through to obtain those certs and approvals that you claim are irrelevant paints you as a fool.

Motul makes some EXCELLENT oils, as do many other manufacturers. You appear to have an agenda toward ExxonMobil and their products, and that's quite a sad way to look at the world, as there are plenty of fantastic lubricants out there once you take the blinders off.
_________________________
Network Engineer
00 BMW 328i
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#2827165 - 12/07/12 01:40 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: OVERKILL]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: turbokick
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


There is so much wrong with that statement I don't even know where to begin.....

No, the approvals an oil has doesn't prove anything about the lubricant at all. We need elves and fairies sprinkling pixie dust 'round our heads whilst we chant Gregorian, stomping our staffs on the ground to really know. Obviously the extensive testing performed by manufacturers and the oil companies to guarantee a level of performance with regards to specs met and certifications obtained is useless drivel compared to the reliance on blind faith, hyperbole and conjecture. Those are much better foundations with which to form a solid reference point from..... crzy


Sorry man, really... I expected something more from you, this post is quite weak. It's obvious you have nothing constructive to tell in this occasion, it's better not to waste your time.
Regards.


No, you've got it quite backwards, it is you who are wasting my time. When you dismiss the value of major certs and approvals, you prove nothing other than the fact that you are extremely ignorant.

There are important distinctions to be made regarding the differences between a dedicated race lubricant, which is not designed for longevity, extended drain intervals or long term protection, and an oil that is tested EXTENSIVELY to provide long term protection and durability, extended drain interval capability AS WELL as the ability to hold its own as a race lubricant.

Mobil makes their own line of dedicated race oils, not unlike Motul's 300V series. They do not recommend these oils for use in daily drivers or regular passenger cars, since that is not their purpose. However, their 0w40 product has some significant overlap in this area, because not only is it designed and tested for use in a wide array of high performance applications with extended drain intervals and longevity as a focus, but it is ALSO used extensively in racing circles by those same manufacturers. That is SIGNIFICANT and discounting it because you want to toot the horn of a dedicated race lube with "ester" in the name and completely discount the significance of the testing that this particular oil goes through to obtain those certs and approvals that you claim are irrelevant paints you as a fool.

Motul makes some EXCELLENT oils, as do many other manufacturers. You appear to have an agenda toward ExxonMobil and their products, and that's quite a sad way to look at the world, as there are plenty of fantastic lubricants out there once you take the blinders off.


The only thing you show in this laarge post is you know nothing and you understand nothing.

In your opinion race oils have to have many approvals

Mobil 1 0W-40 is a race lubricant, equall to Motul 300V..

And I prefer not to go on in this thing.
_________________________
BMW 323ti compact - Motul 300V Competition 15W-50
Motul Products in LSD, tranny, brakes

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#2827198 - 12/07/12 02:07 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
04SVT Offline


Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 133
Loc: Texas
Turbokick, in an earlier post you talked about lifter noise with M1; please don't make me search it out. What car exactly are you tracking that has lifters? Can't be the car in your Sig. I think it's more likely you posted what you've read on here about people saying they have top end noise with M1.

I'm positive motul 300v 0w40 is a great oil. I just think it is ridiculous to pay all that money for an oil that marginally out performs m1 0w40 for a fraction of the cost. The only 0w40 oil worthy of the increased price imo is redline's 0w40 which mops the floor with motul 300v 0w40

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#2827206 - 12/07/12 02:14 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: 04SVT]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 8801
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: 04SVT
redline's 0w40 which mops the floor with motul 300v 0w40

How do you figure?
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Castrol GTX 5w-20

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#2827227 - 12/07/12 02:43 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 24989
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: turbokick

The only thing you show in this laarge post is you know nothing and you understand nothing.


The only thing you show in your arrogant and data-lacking posts is your profound ignorance. I've go enough tenure on this board that the odd man out here is going to be you big guy.

Quote:
In your opinion race oils have to have many approvals


Point to where I said that?

Not only are you ignorant and rude, but apparently have a reading comprehension problem as well! Bravo!

You said there was no value to certs and approvals. You are wholly incorrect on that point.

What that has to do with dedicated race oils like Motul's 300V series or Mobil's own dedicated race formulas, I don't know. I'm not the one who has argued that certifications and approvals mean nothing.

What certifications and approvals DO tell us is that an oil WILL, not might, but WILL perform to a given standard based on the certification/approval in question. Subsequently, an oil with a multitude of certifications and approvals, particularly those relevant to a particular family of vehicle or engine, is guaranteeing a level of performance. Not "it might work because it is additized out the posterior", not "it's gotta work awesome because it has Ester in the name!", no, an actual guarantee of performance based on the TESTING performed to obtain that approval. This is really not a hard concept to grasp.....

Quote:
Mobil 1 0W-40 is a race lubricant, equall to Motul 300V..

And I prefer not to go on in this thing.


It may very well be. As it stands, we know what engines Mobil 1 0w40 has been tested in extensively and approved for. We have no such list for Motul's 300V. For somebody browsing this website, if they have an engine that spec's an oil that meets LL-01 for example, this makes M1 0w40 a safer bet than the 300V, because it has been tested and approved for that application. Again, not a hard thing to wrap your head around.

It comes down to putting your faith in the extensive testing and approval process, or taking the word of some guy on the Internet that a dedicated race lubricant is a better choice for his engine.
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#2827251 - 12/07/12 02:59 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: OpelFever]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 6518
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
Originally Posted By: OpelFever
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I love Finland.

Seriously. That's one of the reasons I bought a Nokia recently.


I like Finland too.

This has zero to do with patriotism. LOL. At least for me. Funny thought though.

USA! Moibl 1! USA! Mobil ! grin




You are both welcome to visit and get ripped off on oil LOL. Yesterday was independence day and I'm feeling so patriotic I'll provide a link to a Finnish oil:

http://www.delron.fi/english/car.htm




One day, I AM coming over there for the Neste 1000 Lakes WRC round!! thumbsup
_________________________
2000 Z28 1SC 6 speed 165K HARD miles!
Sustina 0W-20, M1 0W-40 (60/40 mix), Amsoil EaO 64 filter
Millers CRX 75-140 NT/4oz. XL-3, RL MTL, 11S

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#2827259 - 12/07/12 03:05 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: d00df00d]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 6518
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: 04SVT
redline's 0w40 which mops the floor with motul 300v 0w40

How do you figure?


Maybe he's going by the much higher VI of the RL product, or maybe the stouter add pack? shrug
_________________________
2000 Z28 1SC 6 speed 165K HARD miles!
Sustina 0W-20, M1 0W-40 (60/40 mix), Amsoil EaO 64 filter
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#2827295 - 12/07/12 03:23 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: OVERKILL]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 6518
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
There are important distinctions to be made regarding the differences between a dedicated race lubricant, which is not designed for longevity, extended drain intervals or long term protection, and an oil that is tested EXTENSIVELY to provide long term protection and durability, extended drain interval capability AS WELL as the ability to hold its own as a race lubricant.

Mobil makes their own line of dedicated race oils, not unlike Motul's 300V series. They do not recommend these oils for use in daily drivers or regular passenger cars, since that is not their purpose. However, their 0w40 product has some significant overlap in this area, because not only is it designed and tested for use in a wide array of high performance applications with extended drain intervals and longevity as a focus, but it is ALSO used extensively in racing circles by those same manufacturers.



^^^ I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with the above, BUT, in defense of 300V (at least the older diester formula, I don't know about the new stuff), it has shown itself to be capable of longer drain intervals than most PURE "race oils" out there (maybe due to it's high starting TBNs which the new formula lacks?), despite not having the LL certificates to prove this. Motul even claims it is OK to use as a street oil, but makes no actual claims about it's longevity.

I am NOT stating that it will last as long as M1 0W-40 in a long drain app, just that it is more 'streetable' than the M1 RACING brew which as you've stated, says NOT to use for street cars right in their PDS for it.

Motul DOES make some 300V variants which most definitely are NOT meant to be left in the sump for even 2.5K miles, most notably their NISMO 0W-30 300V that claims such right on the PDS. wink (I'm guessing NO detergents, and a low TBN are at 'fault' for this requirement.)
_________________________
2000 Z28 1SC 6 speed 165K HARD miles!
Sustina 0W-20, M1 0W-40 (60/40 mix), Amsoil EaO 64 filter
Millers CRX 75-140 NT/4oz. XL-3, RL MTL, 11S

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#2827356 - 12/07/12 04:14 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: OVERKILL]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 9789
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
That's quite the unfounded extrapolation. Because a company is willing to substitute some of their PAO base for their proprietary Group III+ base oil in certain applications, that automatically means they are cheapening the product on the whole, removing anything expensive from the mix like Esters or AN's?


Agreed. While some products have undoubtedly changed, not all have. I doubt that Delvac 1 has changed one iota, considering its sheets haven't changed, while all the other stuff has.

Also, will triple the price of a boutique oil provide triple the protection? Triple the longevity? Triple the fuel mileage? wink
_________________________
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2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#2827372 - 12/07/12 04:30 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: d00df00d]
04SVT Offline


Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 133
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: 04SVT
redline's 0w40 which mops the floor with motul 300v 0w40

How do you figure?


Oh, I'm sorry...I couldn't type a follow up post since I was at work. I was just throwing out babbling opinion of an oil I like without any fact base...just like turbokick is doing. I have not factual base and therefore do not actually necessarily believe what I typed. I just wanted to show him how silly it is to just say arbitrarily one oil is better than the other just because I've used it and liked it.

Again, sorry for adding nothing beneficial to the thread. I do feel that the RL is a stouter oil though than the Motul; only by a little though.


Edited by 04SVT (12/07/12 04:31 PM)

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#2827428 - 12/07/12 05:16 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: OpelFever]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 8986
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: OpelFever
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I love Finland.

Seriously. That's one of the reasons I bought a Nokia recently.


I like Finland too.

This has zero to do with patriotism. LOL. At least for me. Funny thought though.

USA! Moibl 1! USA! Mobil ! grin


You are both welcome to visit and get ripped off on oil LOL. Yesterday was independence day and I'm feeling so patriotic I'll provide a link to a Finnish oil:

http://www.delron.fi/english/car.htm

Thanks for the DelRon MotorSport Oils link; very impressive.
In particular I like their 0W-40 with it's 215 VI. To bad they don't provide HTHSV data. See below:
http://www.delron.fi/english/dragster.htm
They're obviously taking advantage of the latest advances in polymer technology. Their 10W-60 has an even higher 222 VI.
_________________________
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'96 BMW 328i - Idemitsu 0W-20/M1 0W-40 "
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#2828871 - 12/09/12 05:19 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: 04SVT]
turbokick Offline


Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 50
Loc: East Of Heaven
Originally Posted By: 04SVT
Turbokick, in an earlier post you talked about lifter noise with M1; please don't make me search it out. What car exactly are you tracking that has lifters? Can't be the car in your Sig. I think it's more likely you posted what you've read on here about people saying they have top end noise with M1.

I'm positive motul 300v 0w40 is a great oil. I just think it is ridiculous to pay all that money for an oil that marginally out performs m1 0w40 for a fraction of the cost. The only 0w40 oil worthy of the increased price imo is redline's 0w40 which mops the floor with motul 300v 0w40



Hahahahaaaa, don't you know that BMW 323 M52B25 engine has hydraulic lifters?..

Another big specialist here, talking about car stuff.

No comment
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#2829154 - 12/09/12 11:31 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 24989
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: turbokick
Originally Posted By: 04SVT
Turbokick, in an earlier post you talked about lifter noise with M1; please don't make me search it out. What car exactly are you tracking that has lifters? Can't be the car in your Sig. I think it's more likely you posted what you've read on here about people saying they have top end noise with M1.

I'm positive motul 300v 0w40 is a great oil. I just think it is ridiculous to pay all that money for an oil that marginally out performs m1 0w40 for a fraction of the cost. The only 0w40 oil worthy of the increased price imo is redline's 0w40 which mops the floor with motul 300v 0w40



Hahahahaaaa, don't you know that BMW 323 M52B25 engine has hydraulic lifters?..

Another big specialist here, talking about car stuff.

No comment


I believe this is a terminology mismatch, as he's likely thinking the engine has buckets, rather than lifters, which is indeed the case.
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#2829496 - 12/09/12 05:29 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: OVERKILL]
04SVT Offline


Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 133
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: turbokick
Originally Posted By: 04SVT
Turbokick, in an earlier post you talked about lifter noise with M1; please don't make me search it out. What car exactly are you tracking that has lifters? Can't be the car in your Sig. I think it's more likely you posted what you've read on here about people saying they have top end noise with M1.

I'm positive motul 300v 0w40 is a great oil. I just think it is ridiculous to pay all that money for an oil that marginally out performs m1 0w40 for a fraction of the cost. The only 0w40 oil worthy of the increased price imo is redline's 0w40 which mops the floor with motul 300v 0w40



Hahahahaaaa, don't you know that BMW 323 M52B25 engine has hydraulic lifters?..

Another big specialist here, talking about car stuff.

No comment


I believe this is a terminology mismatch, as he's likely thinking the engine has buckets, rather than lifters, which is indeed the case.


Yup, exactly. Thank you.

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#2829504 - 12/09/12 05:39 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
04SVT Offline


Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 133
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: turbokick
Originally Posted By: 04SVT
Turbokick, in an earlier post you talked about lifter noise with M1; please don't make me search it out. What car exactly are you tracking that has lifters? Can't be the car in your Sig. I think it's more likely you posted what you've read on here about people saying they have top end noise with M1.

I'm positive motul 300v 0w40 is a great oil. I just think it is ridiculous to pay all that money for an oil that marginally out performs m1 0w40 for a fraction of the cost. The only 0w40 oil worthy of the increased price imo is redline's 0w40 which mops the floor with motul 300v 0w40



Hahahahaaaa, don't you know that BMW 323 M52B25 engine has hydraulic lifters?..

Another big specialist here, talking about car stuff.

No comment


Typically Americans get the wrap for being know it all jerks. However, you seem to be leading the pack with your arogance. NO ONE (not even you) knows about every engine produced. However, overkill is correct. Lifter are what pushrod engines have...or that's what we call them in the states. OHC/DOHC engines have lifter buckets. You only said lifters. Maybe you should learn more about engines and their terminology yourself before you go around telling us how stupid we are.

BTW, I thought you were too good for this discussion and weren't coming back in.


Edited by 04SVT (12/09/12 05:40 PM)

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#2829543 - 12/09/12 06:33 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
04SVT Offline


Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 133
Loc: Texas
This thread has gotten off track. I am partly to blame; for that, I am sorry.

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#2837968 - 12/17/12 12:52 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: turbokick]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 3660
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: turbokick
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


There is so much wrong with that statement I don't even know where to begin.....

No, the approvals an oil has doesn't prove anything about the lubricant at all. We need elves and fairies sprinkling pixie dust 'round our heads whilst we chant Gregorian, stomping our staffs on the ground to really know. Obviously the extensive testing performed by manufacturers and the oil companies to guarantee a level of performance with regards to specs met and certifications obtained is useless drivel compared to the reliance on blind faith, hyperbole and conjecture. Those are much better foundations with which to form a solid reference point from..... crzy


Sorry man, really... I expected something more from you, this post is quite weak. It's obvious you have nothing constructive to tell in this occasion, it's better not to waste your time.
Regards.


I thought Overkill pretty much cleaned your clock with his post, turbokick. Once you backed yourself in a corner saying that certifications and approvals don't mean anything, you were wide open for a plastering.
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#2837981 - 12/17/12 01:02 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: A_Harman]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6513
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: turbokick
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


There is so much wrong with that statement I don't even know where to begin.....

No, the approvals an oil has doesn't prove anything about the lubricant at all. We need elves and fairies sprinkling pixie dust 'round our heads whilst we chant Gregorian, stomping our staffs on the ground to really know. Obviously the extensive testing performed by manufacturers and the oil companies to guarantee a level of performance with regards to specs met and certifications
obtained is useless drivel compared to the reliance on blind faith, hyperbole and conjecture. Those are much better foundations with which to form a solid reference point from..... crzy


Sorry man, really... I expected something more from you, this post is quite weak. It's obvious you have nothing constructive to tell in this occasion, it's better not to waste your time.
Regards.


I thought Overkill pretty much cleaned your clock with his post, turbokick. Once you backed yourself in a corner saying that certifications and approvals don't mean anything, you were wide open for a plastering.



Hehehe.
I may not be a mobil 1 fan however if I'm not mistaken the 0w-40 has more oem certifications than any other oil on the planet,regardless if it's a group 3 or gtl or whatever basestock it is.
But I guess when oem's certify specific oils for use in their engines they do it because of the backroom bags of cash that exchange hands,not what they feel is right for the engines they built.
And ya,overkill plastered him.
Do they sell that pixie fairy dust oil up north here or is that just in Europe,since only Europeans get the good oil?
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#2840122 - 12/18/12 11:22 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
Coprolite Offline


Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 923
Loc: TX
Turbokick only gets Junior troll points for this thread.

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#2840312 - 12/19/12 08:08 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: Clevy]
bluesubie Online   content


Registered: 08/04/03
Posts: 1765
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Clevy

Do they sell that pixie fairy dust oil up north here or is that just in Europe,since only Europeans get the good oil?

If you're referring to Motul, yes. Do a search on spec lube or Motul Canada.

-Dennis
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Motul X-cess 5W-40 | OEM Honeywell filter

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#2841747 - 12/20/12 09:52 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
wally21 Offline


Registered: 12/01/12
Posts: 27
Loc: Pennsylvania
It's a shame that turbokick was so unnecessarily rude in his posts because his message that Motul is extremely good oil is actually quite right. Is it leaps and bounds better than M1, though? Probably not.
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#2841879 - 12/20/12 11:53 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: wally21]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 8801
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: wally21
It's a shame that turbokick was so unnecessarily rude in his posts because his message that Motul is extremely good oil is actually quite right. Is it leaps and bounds better than M1, though? Probably not.

Agreed.
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#2841890 - 12/20/12 12:00 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: bluesubie]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6513
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: Clevy

Do they sell that pixie fairy dust oil up north here or is that just in Europe,since only Europeans get the good oil?

If you're referring to Motul, yes. Do a search on spec lube or Motul Canada.

-Dennis


I use motul in my Harley. I like the brand. That comment was a referrence to our European members who seem to think North American engines will dissolve using the factory recommended lubricants.
I agree that euro engines spec better oils but that's due to their longer drains and let's admit their operating conditions on European highways. NA oils work fine in our climate and operating conditions.
I've been trying out the liqui-moly brand lately and although it's anecdotal I like how the engines run that I use their products in.
My basement is filled with euro spec oils. From rp to liqui-moly,then thin ones but only pennzoil in that flavour.
There is more than one way to skin a cat.
I also agree with dermapaint when he complains that to maintain his warantee he has to use a 20 grade. There should be an allowable 30 grade option in north America if it's an option in other countries.
Jmo
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#3244810 - 01/11/14 11:08 AM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
Mathson Offline


Registered: 12/06/12
Posts: 45
Loc: North Europe
Sorry to bring this old topic up.

In the MSDS it now says CAS 72623-87-1 lubricating oils, petroleum c20-c50 hydrotreated neutral oil based for the whole 300V series. Is this grp III? Depending on viscosity 10-50%.

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#3247518 - 01/13/14 09:04 PM Re: Motul 300V Ester Core oil launched [Re: dparm]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 6518
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
My guess is that it is now a group 3+/PAO/Ester blend.

Sadly, on most of the 300V Ester Core weights, the VIs and TBNs have gone way down. frown
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