2001 Suzuki GSX-1200F - 3,850 mi - Mobil 1

[Matt_D]

Here is my first UOA from my Suzuki Bandit 1200. This bike basically has the same engine as the old GSX-R 1100, so that's what Blackstone compared the results with.

Oil was 50% Mobil 1 MX-4T 10W40, and 50% Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W50.

It looks like it held up very well. Elevated moly (and perhaps lead) may be from the previous oil fill, which was redline 10W40.

Do you think I can run this another 1K miles or so?

 

[OtisBlkR1]

I wouldnt.

 

[sunruh]

you added 2/3rds of a quart and your susvis is on the lowest tick of 50wt.

how much does the bike hold?

iron of 29 seems kinda high for 3850 miles.

alum of 14 is about what i would expect.

copper of 5 means there may be a clutch basket boss that has just a little play in it or is typical.

yeah the lead and moly are probably from the redline.

now with manga and silver readings you have to think scatter or calibration is off so the copper could be 3 or 7 or who knows.

435 flash proves no fuel in the oil, very clean.

do i think you can? yes you could run it another 5k.
the question is *should* you? and that all depends on what you think is acceptable.

without knowing your oil capacity and adding in 2/3 qt, i cant say if your report is just ok or horrid.

why did you have to add 2/3qt in under 4k miles?

steve

 

[Matt_D]

I added oil because the bike burns a little bit during high heat or high RPM operation. And this bike runs pretty hot - it's air cooled, and sump temps are typically 220-240F.

Sump capacity is about 4.5 qts.

Regarding the SUVIS - I think it's right on target, given that I was using a 10W40/20W50 blend.

Yes, the iron is a little high. But I changed to a more aggressive camshaft just before this OCI, so I think there was some break-in wear.

Just FYI, I generally don't run the bike very hard, so the elevated metals in this UOA were a bit surprising.

 

[sunruh]

you replaced 14.6% of the total amount and generated these numbers.

i would run another 3850 miles and do another uoa to get a compareable baseline. yes, cam breaking could be the sole reason for a lot of this. that would have been good info in the begining.
however that does not explain lead or copper.

and yes the susvis is ok, but not because of the 10w40. it is thickening.

m1 should be able to handle that heat with no issues at all.

do you plan on doing another uoa?

steve

 

[Matt_D]

Yes, I'll do another UOA after about 4K miles. But that might not be until late fall or next spring - I ride about 8K miles/yr.

Thanks for your advice - you have been very helpful.

 

[sunruh]

there is 1 way to fix that...RIDE MORE!!!

please dont let used oil sit over the winter. warmed up fresh oil would be so much better. with maybe some sta-bil in the gas too

 

[Matt_D]

Here is another report from the same bike.

It looks like lead is still elevated. Maybe going with a thinner oil would help? I'm using 50% Mobil 1 4T 10W40, and 50% Mobil 1 V-twin 20W50. This bike is an air-cooled inline 4.

 

[sunruh]

very interesting reports.

susvis shows you not far from 50wt.
flash of 450 shows there is NO fuel in there at all.

again 2/3qt makeup oil...hmmm

alum seems ok
chromium 1 maybe scatter or part of the gears with iron
iron seems high but staying at that level (maybe gears on a 12+ yo bike)
copper again seems more than it should but holding
lead is the same as copper...12! from where?
silicon 12 is nice and low.
magnesium has dropped by 64% how and why? !!!

all of these numbers may be typical of a 12+yo motor of this design.
i dont know if i would change anything or not.

steve

 

[Matt_D]

Just an update - Cylinder #3 let go on this engine this week. I'm getting 65psi compression on it dry, 125 wet. All the remaining cylinders are 148-155 psi.

I'm going to get the cylinders bored and install new pistons, and I'm sending the head off for a refurb.

 

[ricky66]

Very unusual for one these motors to break. Did it break a ring, hole a piston or did you burn a valve? Seems very odd, Ive owned 3 bikes powered by derivatives of this motor, all ridden hard with high mileage. Never seen a failure like that, even with low maintenance levels, ie extended valve clearance intervals, 10,000km OCI's

 

[Analyzer]

Very interesting UOA indeed. Although the aluminum seems to be wearing well in comparison to the universal averages, the Iron is definitely elevated; but once again comparing the averages it appears to be tracking properly considering you have nearly double the mileage with only a 25% increase in wear; especially considering the installation of more aggressive cams (which is probably why Silicon levels were also elevated due to possible gasket sealant/ particulate matter with the valve cover off).
As stated earlier the Moly at higher levels is probably attributed to the fill of Red Line and are trending down; most UOA's of M1 usually fall in the 70-80 PPM range. The presence of magnesium in those levels is also surprising as M1 and Red Line are comprised primarily of Calcium (usually with small traces of magnesium around 10 PPM or under).

I'm really sorry to hear about the loss of compression on cylinder #3. With your 2/3 quart of oil consumption (supposing it's not a leak) one would think it would be an issue with the piston rings (either compression and/or oil control ring). Usually the rings are a ferrous material (iron/steel) and commonly plated in Chromium and in other instances plasma moly, but the UOA doesn't show an increased spike attributable to this (plus one would assume a higher amount of fuel dilution in the oil from blow-by). The other reason might be the valve clearance could have been too tight (especially on the exhaust side) with the installation of the more aggressive cams and could cause low compression readings. Good luck with the rebuild and keep us updated on any new info!

 

[29662]

Sorry to hear about your bike. My brother rides a modded bandit 1200, and that thing absolutely flies; has proven bulletproof thus far. I love riding it everytime I go to visit him; it's my transportation for the week when I'm down there.

Good luck on the rebuild.

 

[Mackelroy]

Im looking at your uoa to see how you would have known you were about to implode.

I don't see it, nothing elevated enough to say something is about to blow.

So I wonder if its a valve sealing issue verses a piston issue

 

[KernelK]

Except for the wet and dry compression readings.

 

[Matt_D]

Thanks all for the comments. Sorry it's taken so long for me to respond... I have been away from the forum for a while and I didn't see the activity on this thread.

As for the bike - I completed a rebuild using J&E 11:1 1216 pistons. When I pulled the head off and tested the valves by pouring gasoline into the pockets, two of the exhaust valves had mild leaks (cyls #3 and #4). That wasn't enough to explain the low compression. The machine shop where I had the head rebuilt told me that one of the valve guides was very loose on cylinder 3, and they thought that what was probably happening was that the valve wasn't returning to the valve seat with any reliability - therefore, compression in cyl #3 was low. I don't know what would cause one valve guide to wear to this degree, but not the other guides...

The shop installed a new valve guide and a new valve as a replacement. The machinist said that the remaining exhaust valve guides were all loose, but would be "good enough" until the next head refresh.

The pistons, rings, and cylinder walls were in good shape. Still, this was a good opportunity to install the 1216 pistons, so I went ahead and did it. It was a real pain to get the rings compressed and the pistons installed.

I have 5,500 on the rebuilt motor now. It runs very strong. Oil consumption is approximately 1 quart every 3,000 miles, which is more than I would like. Hopefully it will go down, but as this is a very hot running air cooled motor, it may not. I think some of the oil is volatilizing.

 

[Matt_D]

As for the oil - I'm currently running redline 10W40 motorcycle formula. I'll hopefully rack up enough miles to get a UOA done in September or October... I plan to run the oil about 4,000 miles before testing. I was using rotella and dumping regularly the first 4,000 miles on the rebuild.