700 X 23 or 25 tire value

[ledslinger]

Looking at replacing my bike tires and was looking at Continental 4000, and Vittoria Rubino Pro, both about $80/pair. Know of any tires a better value than this?

Have Schwalbe Blizzard now and they seemed OK. I mainly ride 15-25 mile training rides on smooth to OK roads. Dry unless I made a mistake. Ride one 14 mile sprint team triathalon every year on a hilly course with many turns. I weigh about 200.

 

[mpvue]

I generally like Conti's, but I think they wear fast, and not all of them are made in Germany to demand such a premium.
try to look for some Panaracers, or Rivendell roll-y poll-y's. Japanese made, high thread count.
try to fit a 700x28 in there if you can. it's a much more practical size with a better ride quality. 23mm tires are just ridiculously narrow for regular riding.

 

[JOD]

I'd go with the Continental 4000s in a 25mm. They're a little more expensive, but you can still get them for under $100.00 a pair on Fleabay. This model is Hencho en Germany. It's probably the best all-around tire right now for handling, rolling resistance, flat resistance and wear. At your size, without question I'd go for the 25's over the 23's. I think that's a better size for almost anyone.

 

[stephen9666]

I didn't know Panaracer tires were still made in Japan.

Taken from their website:
Quote:
Panaracer is the last Japanese manufacturer still producing bicycle tires in Japan. We feel that our domestic production allows us to maintain our quality control at the highest levels.


I just ordered some Kenda Kontenders in 700x26. They should be made in Taiwan, which is considerably better than China, IMO. They're pretty low priced. I haven't had Kenda road tires, but I've used some of their mountain bike tires and liked them.

But if I had known Panaracers were still made in Japan, I might have been willing to spend a little more on them. Oh well.

 

[AHC]

I ride Schwalbe marathons for commuting they wear longer and corner better and stick better in the wet than Vittoria Randonnuers but that doesn’t help you very much. I've heard Vittoria makes some nice road specific tires. I'm partial to Schwalble mostly brand loyalty.

My 2012 Pinarello Paris came with Challenge Garas. They seem like an OK all around tire. However, I would not recommend them.

Go with 23. You're not that big. I weight 185 - 195 and 23's are fine. 25's if you are worried about cracks in roadway or marginal increase in comfort.

 

[UG_Passat]

700x25c is better for heavier riders. More volume means you can run a lower pressure, which means a slightly cushier ride, better rolling efficiency (ie not bouncing off bumps)... and the contact patch is better for rolling than a 23c.

What to go with? I like my Continental Gran Prix 4000S. Has a good compromise of weight, rolling resistance, and puncture protection.


www.biketiresdirect.com has them for $63.74 each with free UPS Ground Shipping.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: AHC
My 2012 Pinarello Paris came with Challenge Garas. They seem like an OK all around tire. However, I would not recommend them.

Go with 23. You're not that big. I weight 185 - 195 and 23's are fine. 25's if you are worried about cracks in roadway or marginal increase in comfort.


Did you get the Sky 'team kit'/issue adidas clothing to ride in?

Vittorias are VERY GOOD road tires, especially their high end tubulars and clinchers.

I ride the 320 TPI Open Corsa CX Evos (23mm) with Michelin, or Vittoria latex tubes, and the response is not too far from a good tubular. They even make that scrubbing/'swooshing' sound when you get up out of the saddle and jump hard to start a sprint, just like my old Clement Criterium Seta Extras used to WAAAYYYY back in the day.

I may try the Vittoria Open Pave Evo CGs in 25mm next (at least on the back wheel, if not both).

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver


I ride the 320 TPI Open Corsa CX Evos (23mm) with Michelin, or Vittoria latex tubes, and the response is not too far from a good tubular. They even make that scrubbing/'swooshing' sound when you get up out of the saddle and jump hard to start a sprint, just like my old Clement Criterium Seta Extras used to WAAAYYYY back in the day.

I may try the Vittoria Open Pave Evo CGs in 25mm next (at least on the back wheel, if not both).


I'd avoid the Pave's unless you really need a more robust tire. They're wider (24) but they also have a thicker tread and it extends down a little more. They're a little more harsh-riding and they roll slower. The CX now comes in a 25, so if you want something wider that'd be a good option.

I'm using the Vittoria Evo Slick, both tubular and clincher (the clinchers are weekday race/training wheels), and I have to say there's no difference. They feel every bit as good as tubulars. The only reason I'm using tubies is the wheels I like happen to be tubular. A good tire and latex tube and it's literally the same ride. All that said, I think the Conti 4000S is a more reasonable every-day tire. It'll be a lot more durable and flat-resistant.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: dailydriver


I ride the 320 TPI Open Corsa CX Evos (23mm) with Michelin, or Vittoria latex tubes, and the response is not too far from a good tubular. They even make that scrubbing/'swooshing' sound when you get up out of the saddle and jump hard to start a sprint, just like my old Clement Criterium Seta Extras used to WAAAYYYY back in the day.

I may try the Vittoria Open Pave Evo CGs in 25mm next (at least on the back wheel, if not both).


I'd avoid the Pave's unless you really need a more robust tire. They're wider (24) but they also have a thicker tread and it extends down a little more. They're a little more harsh-riding and they roll slower. The CX now comes in a 25, so if you want something wider that'd be a good option.

I'm using the Vittoria Evo Slick, both tubular and clincher (the clinchers are weekday race/training wheels), and I have to say there's no difference. They feel every bit as good as tubulars. The only reason I'm using tubies is the wheels I like happen to be tubular. A good tire and latex tube and it's literally the same ride. All that said, I think the Conti 4000S is a more reasonable every-day tire. It'll be a lot more durable and flat-resistant.


Thanks for letting me know about the 25mm Open CXes!

Do they come in an Evo Slick in that width as well?

One more thing; WHY does it seem like I'm the ONLY "nut" who insists on using a latex tube in good, top-end, tubular-like clinchers, since they are soooooo hard to come by (at ANY cost)??
Is it just the cost that makes them rare, and seemingly NOBODY wants to pay for, or does everyone really think there is NO 'response' difference between them and butyl tubes (BESIDES the slight weight differences)?

If I am going to spend BIG BUCKS on a great "open tubular" clincher, I am NOT going to deaden it by cheaping out on an unresponsive butyl tube, no matter how light.
What I am getting at is that I feel there is MUCH more to the differences between the two tube materials than just weight like everyone else seems to think. (Since ALL of the top tubulars 'back in the day' had latex tubes sewn inside, whether the casing was silk, OR cotton.

)

 

[JOD]

unfortunately, the Evo Slick (which I prefer) isn't available in a 25. Despite the name, I think they actually grip better in the rain, which is obviously a big deal for me since about 70% of my racing seems to be on wet pavement...

As far as the latex tubes, there's been a bit of a resurgence over the last few years, thanks in part to a small group of egg-head bike racers who conducted a bunch of tests several years ago and published data to document that they significantly reduce rolling resistance. Embarrassed to say, I was one of these guys... One guy who was really organized ended up doing a massive spreadsheet of all of the testing, and controlled the variables a little better, so the advantages were quantified a bit better for everyone to see. Then, some manufacturers started to response to the demand. Now, Vittoria, Vredestein, Bontrager, Michelin and Challenge all have latex tubes available. The other upside, as you mentioned, is that they ride a lot better. The only real downside is that you have to take a little more car on install, and you have to pump them up everyday.

 

[dailydriver]

It's not just the 'ride', but the response (liveliness, for lack of a better term, I guess) that they give over the 'dead feeling' butyl's, even if it were NOT quantifiable, and was just a 'placebo effect'.

I'm used to pumping tires up every single day from my latex tubed, silk cased tubular days of yore.

 

[supton]

How do the Conti 4000's compare to Bontrager Hardcase Lite's? I have been using the Hardcases for something like 3-4kmiles, and had to replace one finally as cords were coming through. [Must have braked too hard once or something.]

I've been sticking with them as I haven't had a flat--which is good, as replacing the one was a real bear. But it seems that model has gone obsolete. I've read they have high drag, but high puncture resistance. Might these 4000's be in the similar camp? I prefer to ride, not fix flats. Our roads don't have too much glass / metal debris; but I do ride at times on what I like to call "paved single track".

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: supton
How do the Conti 4000's compare to Bontrager Hardcase Lite's? I have been using the Hardcases for something like 3-4kmiles, and had to replace one finally as cords were coming through. [Must have braked too hard once or something.]

I've been sticking with them as I haven't had a flat--which is good, as replacing the one was a real bear. But it seems that model has gone obsolete. I've read they have high drag, but high puncture resistance. Might these 4000's be in the similar camp? I prefer to ride, not fix flats. Our roads don't have too much glass / metal debris; but I do ride at times on what I like to call "paved single track".


They have a nicer ride and roll quite a bit faster, but they're going to be more flat-prone and may not last as long on the rear. A friend of mine used the Hardcase for winter training and those things wear like iron--but they feel like it too!

The 4000s is quite a bit more durable than something like the Vittoria Corsas, but it's not going to approach the Hardcase or the Gatorskins. That said, I managed 1 flat in the rear all winter, on something that would have punctured anything, and I got a good 3.5K miles out of the rear (front tires almost never wear out), and my roads really aren't all that great.

All tires are a compromise between ride quality, rolling resistance, flat resistance and durability. These are nice because they're kinda in the middle of all of those parameters. The Michlin Pro3/Pro4 are similar.

 

[dailydriver]

Are the Gatorskins (especially in 25 mm) tougher than the Hardcases for winter/rough, potholed road training, or is it 'splitting hairs' at that point?

 

[supton]

Thanks, maybe I'll spring for a 4000 and try it in the rear. Not a lot of glass around here, so perhaps I'm doing a bit of overkill. I set a goal to up my average speed this summer, and am stuck--maybe a new tire will fix that.

 

[zzyzzx]

I have a Performance Bike stores in my area, so I usually just go there an get whatever is on sale 700 x 25 or 700 x 23. Something like the Forté Strada Road Tire is fine for me since the tire is just going to end up being destroyed by some sort of road hazard issue anyway.

 

[dailydriver]

Who actually manufactures the Performance Forte clinchers for them?

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Who actually manufactures the Performance Forte clinchers for them?


I have no idea, all I know is that the specs are decent so why not.

 

[ledslinger]

I got the 25mm 4000s and rode them for first time today. They have surprisingly lower rolling resistance than the Schwalbe Blizzards I had before. Part of it might be I ran 15 PSI more than I was running. I ran 115 rear and 110 front, which was a little bouncy, I'll try around 5 lb less on both ends tomorrow. I can't really explain it, the difference is dramatic, the lowered rolling resistance is amazing. Unless I have a tire failure or flats real soon, I'm impressed.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: ledslinger
I got the 25mm 4000s and rode them for first time today. They have surprisingly lower rolling resistance than the Schwalbe Blizzards I had before. Part of it might be I ran 15 PSI more than I was running.


No, it's all in the tires. To give you an idea, over a 15 minute stretch of road where I do 15 minute repeats, the Blizzards (which I use as a winter tire) add about 3-4 minutes over 15 minute course. They are unbelievably slow. They're also bombproof though, which is why I use one on the back during the winter. It's almost like riding a solid tire.