Is Toyota 0W-20 SN made in heaven?

[Gokhan]

At the last oil change a couple of weeks ago, I filled with Toyota Genuine Motor Oil 0W-20 SN/GF-5 Synthetic. It's made by ExxonMobil in US. I was able to get it for $5.50 a quart after hard negotiation -- about the lowest you can get it for.

I am really impressed with this oil. It's giving the least engine friction I've ever experienced. As a result, gears shift smoothly at low engine output. I obtained 32 MPG in 2/3-freeway and 1/3-city driving in the last 11 gallons, highest I got with any oil. The engine also runs very smoothly and with minimal valve tick.

The oil has a nauseatingly strong odor I've never experienced with any other oil. It's probably because it contains a lot of Group IV/V truly synthetic base oil or has an additive giving the odor. In contrast, M1 0W-20 SM (not SN) that I have an open bottle of has a similar but much, much weaker odor, indicating that it also contains the same stuff (Group IV/V ?) but in much lesser amounts.

It's also almost certain that it contains Infineum trinuclear moly, which is known to give the least friction and most engine protection among all moly kinds.

This oil is also known to have a viscosity index of about 216, higher than almost every other oil (except Sustina).

I am virtually convinced that it's the best 0W-20 out there. I think it has better base oil than Mobil 1. Sustina is a Group III+ oil; so, Toyota has better base oil than Sustina as well. I don't think any other oil can beat it in fuel economy.

I'm really pleased with oil so far. It's a huge upgrade to Pennzoil Yellow Bottle (PYB) SN 5W-20, which I got poor frictional performance from. I will do a UOA in 3,000 miles.

I am posting some pictures of the bottle here so that you can take a close look.

 

[mongo161]

Toyota 0w-20 is made by Mobil 1, as specified by Toyota Requirements. FWIK....it's not the same as Mobil 1, 0w-20.

What about this other synthetic that people rave about....Royal Purple. This oil is also "Pure Synthetic" in all grades from 5w-20 to 20w-50.

Does anyone know if this Royal Purple is in the same class as Toyota Oil or is it in a class of it's own?

Muscle car enthusiast's swear by the Royal Purple 10w-40.

 

[Oil Changer]

Great oil. I have the SM in my CR-V. I think the 0W-20's represent the ne plus ultra of engine oils today.

 

[Indydriver]

I'm glad you're happy with TGMO. Based entirely on BITOG discussions, I have three cases in my garage awaiting OCs on my two late model Japanese 0W-20 models.

HOWEVER, I have to point out that you've taken your positive subjective evaluation and used it to create fact from [BITOG] folklore. I've read every thread discussing this oil. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have yet to see any document or other proof that this oil contains the pixie dust called "infineum trinuclear moly". It seems that everyone has ASSUMED that because the SM version of this oil contained high levels of moly, that Toyota could not have possibly allowed their SN formulation to be "downgraded" to a typical SN synthetic add pack with ~100 ppm. In addition, you've decided this oil has "better" base oil stocks than M1 or Sustina apparently based only on it's smell?

Now, I will admit that the following is my own conjecture, but I'm going to label it as such up front: I'd say price is a better indicator of "non-standard" base oils and add packs. At $5.15/qt, I'd say that Toyota has taken a cost-cutting approach to their SN formulation. This would also be more in keeping with their corporate philosophy of providing low cost but reliable products. The one FACT you've pointed out is that TGMO is made by XOM. Knowing a few things about large Japanese corporations, a much more likely scenario is that Toyota purchasing took bids on their SN supply and Exxon Mobil was low. They're low because they already make one of the best and highest volume 0W-20s on the market. They can offer a competitive private label product [and still make money themselves] because they have an off the shelf offering that they know will work and doesn't require a lot of expensive R&D and re-formulation which remember, would not only have to undergo extensive testing to prove that it works under the many demanding scenarios Toyota would require, but also would require testing by the many certification agencies. All of these things build cost into a product which doesn't bode well for a finished good that Toyota can resell at a lower price point than XOM's own brand.

I want to see good information on this product to reinforce my own purchase decision but I'd like to see some authoritative FACTS, rather than assumptions about its formulation.

I also note with curiosity that, after your glowing review on this wonder oil, you're planning to dump it at 3,000 miles in what looks like a pretty tame application. Toyota is asking me to believe that this oil is good for 10,000 OCIs in my 2012. Your plan doesn't seem to match up with your assumptions about this oil. How come?

 

[Merkava_4]

Do they make it in a 10W-30 ?

 

[Indydriver]

Part 2: Purchasing 101

Let's think about purchasing practices of large corporations. A large, professional purchasing department that I would assume Toyota has, will require their own engineering staff to provide a purchase spec for potential suppliers to bid on. Purchasing specifications MUST be performance based, not formulation based for a variety of reasons. 1) The buyer doesn't want to be an expert in formulating the product they are purchasing--that's the supplier's job. They want it to do what they need it to do and if a supplier can innovate with a novel, lower cost product, well, that's the Holy Grail of purchasing. 2) The buyer will require the supplier to stand behind it's product and will hold them liable if failures and warranty claims are experienced that fall short of the performance parameters called out in the purchasing specification. 3) Purchase specs that call out formulation become a "toll manufacturing" agreement rather than a supply contract with obvious implications for limits of liability should said product lead to warranty claims. 4) It is nearly impossible to be competitively priced AND make a profit on a private label product that strays from existing accepted high volume production. In other words, if XOM has to stop production to change over to a specialty product, that adds cost which neither party wants.

I could go on but perhaps you're getting the point. Chances are, any XOM private label product at this price point is going to be very close to their standard product, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[tig1]

This post is some sort of joke, right?

 

[INDYMAC]

I too have been following this oil on BITOG since buying a 2012 4Runner. And like indydriver, I've been considering stocking up for future oil changes with this formula. It's my first experience with a vehicle that a 20 grade oil is recommended. So I'm hesitant to even trust any 20 grade oil here in Texas. The local dealerships don't even offer this formula on oil changes, unless you purchase it yourself (if the parts department even has it). Dealer price would be around $6.50/qt, so it's most likely a group III. If it were group IV or V, it would be $15/qt.

I'm anxiously awaiting some data to review on this oil, especially in the 1GR-FE engine. Spec sheets really don't do much for me. So far, I haven't seen any UOA's.

 

[Unearthed]

They put ground up unicorn horns in M1 0w-20 and slap a Toyota sticker on it.

 

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted By: Unearthed
They put ground up unicorn horns in M1 0w-20 and slap a Toyota sticker on it.

Too expensive. Has any one considered that at $5-6/qt maybe they took something out of M1?

 

[rshaw125]

Walmart Supertech synthetic with a Toyota label.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
The oil has a nauseatingly strong odor I've never experienced with any other oil. It's probably because it contains a lot of Group IV/V truly synthetic base oil or has an additive giving the odor. In contrast, M1 0W-20 SM (not SN) that I have an open bottle of has a similar but much, much weaker odor, indicating that it also contains the same stuff (Group IV/V ?) but in much lesser amounts.


Finished base oils, especially PAOs, have absolutely no odor. Esters can have some, but from what I've read (and been told by Molakule) it's usually a sweet smell. For finished motor oil, the odor comes from the additives. Period.

I'd be willing to bet that this Toyota oil is nothing more than rebranded Mobil Super Synthetic 0w20.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN




I'd be willing to bet that this Toyota oil is nothing more than rebranded Mobil Super Synthetic 0w20.

It can't be, as the specs on that oil are different, it's got a much lower viscosity index of only 176.

 

[cp3]

Maybe the ground unicorn horns make up the difference in viscosity index from Mobil Super? With a VI of 214 neither of those Mobil offerings come close with Super at 173 and AFE at 177.

 

[buster]

I'm with G-MAN on this. I think if anything, this oil is more similar or is a variation of Mobil Super 0w20, only specifically formulated for Toyota. So it's a really good Group III, but doesn't quite have the extreme performance benefits of M1 0w20.

I highly doubt XOM is givnig Toyota a better formulation to Toyota than what they offer for their flaghship oil, Mobil 1.

TGMO is an impressive oil and it gives the best engine response in the Honda 2.4L. The only negative thing I can say about it is the engine is bit more noisy. M1 AFE 0w20/30 keep the 2.4L the quietest among all oils.

 

[kballowe]

What's the difference between the clear cap M1 0w-20 and the green cap M1 0w-20 ? .... and I've not seen it in the clear cap.

We use the green cap stuff for a 2010 Toyota Camry.

The local Toyota dealer has bulk Genuine Toyota stuff for $5.75/qt but ya gotta bring your own container. Eh, we just get the M1 stuff.

 

[cp3]

I don't think they offer a regular M1 0w20, only the green cap AFE.

 

[virginoil]

Made in heaven for Toyota OEM recommended vehicles.

 

[Cooker]

Good thing this ist't a Toyota forum. The guys over there will seemingly fight to the death to defend their Toyota 0w20 and its vast superiority to M1 0w20

I have not cared enough to look into any possible differences but the Toyota guys are very passionate about the Toyota product being superior because the manufacturer had it specifically designed for their engines. No way would they use and off the shelf oil

Why would any MFG use a quality off the shelf synthetic oil as a factory fill

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: buster
TGMO is an impressive oil and it gives the best engine response in the Honda 2.4L. The only negative thing I can say about it is the engine is bit more noisy. M1 AFE 0w20/30 keep the 2.4L the quietest among all oils.


I wouldn't say that M1 AFE keeps the 2.4L the quietest among all oils. It does run well in there, but I've found at least one other oil that is quieter, and it's what's in the sump of mine right now.