If you had to choose between Liqui Moly Synthoil Premium 5W40 and Total Energy Quartz 9000 5W40, what would you choose?
Liqui Moly or Total
- Thread starter dennishiip
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Assuming they both meet the spec that your engine needs, I'd choose based on price.
JHZR2
Staff member
Yep price and availability.
Total would have a slight edge just because of rarity to me.
Total would have a slight edge just because of rarity to me.
Quote:
Vollsynthese 0W40
The good stuff!
Vollsynthese 0W40
The good stuff!
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Vollsynthese 0W40
The good stuff!
Agreed. Specs are similar to M1. Very good.
Don't buy based on brand, buy based on objective specs and actual UOAs.
Quote:
Vollsynthese 0W40
The good stuff!
Agreed. Specs are similar to M1. Very good.
Don't buy based on brand, buy based on objective specs and actual UOAs.
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Vollsynthese 0W40
The good stuff!
Agreed. Specs are similar to M1. Very good.
Don't buy based on brand, buy based on objective specs and actual UOAs.
I am buying based on it's a REAL synthetic, and it readily available in my area. I am tired of the [censored] API game of calling Gp III 'full synthetic' oils. Also, it is SM rated, so it is not as starved for anti-wear additives like the SN oils. I am not under warranty, so I do not need to conform to GM's requirement of sacrificing wear for MPG.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Vollsynthese 0W40
The good stuff!
Agreed. Specs are similar to M1. Very good.
Don't buy based on brand, buy based on objective specs and actual UOAs.
I am buying based on it's a REAL synthetic, and it readily available in my area. I am tired of the [censored] API game of calling Gp III 'full synthetic' oils. Also, it is SM rated, so it is not as starved for anti-wear additives like the SN oils. I am not under warranty, so I do not need to conform to GM's requirement of sacrificing wear for MPG.
It's not an "API game." They don't decide what's synthetic or not. An oil either meets a certain API specification, or it doesn't. A PAO based 0w-40 with an SN rating is just as "SN" as is a 5w-30 conventional.
Originally Posted By: dennishiip
If you had to choose between Liqui Moly Synthoil Premium 5W40 and Total Energy Quartz 9000 5W40, what would you choose?
M1 0W-40 but I realize that's not your question although that benchmark 40wt oil should always be part of any comparison.
Do you have the PDS info on both oils? That would help.
If you had to choose between Liqui Moly Synthoil Premium 5W40 and Total Energy Quartz 9000 5W40, what would you choose?
M1 0W-40 but I realize that's not your question although that benchmark 40wt oil should always be part of any comparison.
Do you have the PDS info on both oils? That would help.
Liqui-Moly:
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx2/1306%20Synthoil%20High%20Tech%20SAE%205W-40_EN.pdf/$file/1306%20Synthoil%20High%20Tech%20SAE%205W-40_EN.pdf
Total:
http://www.finalube.com/Product_Data_Files/Total_Product_Data_Files/quartz_9000_energy_5w40_pdf.pdf
Both are rather unremarkable and on-par with most store-bought oils like Valvoline SynPower 5w40, Castrol Syntec 5w40, etc. I still do not understand why the Audi world is obsessed with the LM brand.
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx2/1306%20Synthoil%20High%20Tech%20SAE%205W-40_EN.pdf/$file/1306%20Synthoil%20High%20Tech%20SAE%205W-40_EN.pdf
Total:
http://www.finalube.com/Product_Data_Files/Total_Product_Data_Files/quartz_9000_energy_5w40_pdf.pdf
Both are rather unremarkable and on-par with most store-bought oils like Valvoline SynPower 5w40, Castrol Syntec 5w40, etc. I still do not understand why the Audi world is obsessed with the LM brand.
Originally Posted By: Garak
It's not an "API game." They don't decide what's synthetic or not. An oil either meets a certain API specification, or it doesn't. A PAO based 0w-40 with an SN rating is just as "SN" as is a 5w-30 conventional.
I disagree. Because the API was so afraid to commit and take sides when it came to the Mobil vs. Castrol 'what the meaning of synthetic is' debate/lawsuit, now any oil a US company wants to call synthetic can be labelled synthetic. Hence the reason Mobil 1 went to Grp III oils to save coin but still charge you the same $$ .....I am not playing that game anymore.
If Red Line or Amsoil were more readily available near me, I'd be going that route. But NAPA carries the LM. So be it.
It's not an "API game." They don't decide what's synthetic or not. An oil either meets a certain API specification, or it doesn't. A PAO based 0w-40 with an SN rating is just as "SN" as is a 5w-30 conventional.
I disagree. Because the API was so afraid to commit and take sides when it came to the Mobil vs. Castrol 'what the meaning of synthetic is' debate/lawsuit, now any oil a US company wants to call synthetic can be labelled synthetic. Hence the reason Mobil 1 went to Grp III oils to save coin but still charge you the same $$ .....I am not playing that game anymore.
If Red Line or Amsoil were more readily available near me, I'd be going that route. But NAPA carries the LM. So be it.
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Originally Posted By: Fyrb4ll
I disagree. Because the API was so afraid to commit and take sides when it came to the Mobil vs. Castrol 'what the meaning of synthetic is' debate/lawsuit, now any oil a US company wants to call synthetic can be labelled synthetic.
But, neither the API nor the ACEA, for that matter, concerns itself with the definition of synthetic. Until the API comes out with a specification that requires the use of a Group IV or Group V base stock, it's neither their problem nor responsibility.
Further, there are oils out there that do not seek either API or ACEA approval. How, hypothetically, should the API deal with such a product?
I disagree. Because the API was so afraid to commit and take sides when it came to the Mobil vs. Castrol 'what the meaning of synthetic is' debate/lawsuit, now any oil a US company wants to call synthetic can be labelled synthetic.
But, neither the API nor the ACEA, for that matter, concerns itself with the definition of synthetic. Until the API comes out with a specification that requires the use of a Group IV or Group V base stock, it's neither their problem nor responsibility.
Further, there are oils out there that do not seek either API or ACEA approval. How, hypothetically, should the API deal with such a product?
Originally Posted By: Fyrb4ll
I am buying based on it's a REAL synthetic,
Oh boy, here we go again. I realize that you're new to BITOG and it's a common pitfall to fall into. I suggest you do further reading to help you get over this.
Quote:
I disagree. Because the API was so afraid to commit and take sides when it came to the Mobil vs. Castrol 'what the meaning of synthetic is' debate/lawsuit, now any oil a US company wants to call synthetic can be labelled synthetic.
API had nothing to do with the whole synthetic definition discussion. API sets out certain performance standards, just like ACEA. They don't care how these performance standards are achieved. If you can achieve them with cooking oil, so be it. And rightfully so. You should focus more on the oils performance (specific MFG specs that an oil meets) rather than what it's made of.
Quote:
Hence the reason Mobil 1 went to Grp III oils to save coin but still charge you the same $$ .....I am not playing that game anymore.
Can you prove that M1's real-world performance has gone down as a result of this formulation change? Does it not meet the same mfg specs anymore? Are there engines out there getting sludged up and blowing up because of this new reformulated M1? Give me a break...
I am buying based on it's a REAL synthetic,
Oh boy, here we go again. I realize that you're new to BITOG and it's a common pitfall to fall into. I suggest you do further reading to help you get over this.
Quote:
I disagree. Because the API was so afraid to commit and take sides when it came to the Mobil vs. Castrol 'what the meaning of synthetic is' debate/lawsuit, now any oil a US company wants to call synthetic can be labelled synthetic.
API had nothing to do with the whole synthetic definition discussion. API sets out certain performance standards, just like ACEA. They don't care how these performance standards are achieved. If you can achieve them with cooking oil, so be it. And rightfully so. You should focus more on the oils performance (specific MFG specs that an oil meets) rather than what it's made of.
Quote:
Hence the reason Mobil 1 went to Grp III oils to save coin but still charge you the same $$ .....I am not playing that game anymore.
Can you prove that M1's real-world performance has gone down as a result of this formulation change? Does it not meet the same mfg specs anymore? Are there engines out there getting sludged up and blowing up because of this new reformulated M1? Give me a break...
JHZR2
Staff member
Wow, another "real" synthetic argument here? LOL.
M1 went grp III and charges the same? Notice where energy (and all other prices) have gone the last few years?
Wow, no real understanding of how stuff works.
Go on with the value proposition argument. LOL.
M1 went grp III and charges the same? Notice where energy (and all other prices) have gone the last few years?
Wow, no real understanding of how stuff works.
Go on with the value proposition argument. LOL.
Interesting how post count substitutes for knowledge around here.
There is a wealth of information out there outside of BITOG. You just need to look for it.
So, what is M1 hiding? They sound like politicians - dodging the questions:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Group_3_Base_Oils.aspx
All it takes to be factory fill is alot of $$$. Big deal.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a couple of races to watch on TV.
There is a wealth of information out there outside of BITOG. You just need to look for it.
So, what is M1 hiding? They sound like politicians - dodging the questions:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Group_3_Base_Oils.aspx
All it takes to be factory fill is alot of $$$. Big deal.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a couple of races to watch on TV.
Originally Posted By: Fyrb4ll
There is a wealth of information out there outside of BITOG. You just need to look for it.
True. There is also a load of nonsense out there outside of BITOG, too. You just need to look for it.
The "real synthetic" war is dead and buried. The entire notion is obsolete. Even in Europe (and particularly Germany), where labelling rules are much more stringent, oils are specified based on ACEA or proprietary manufacturers' specifications. A new Audi doesn't ask for a Group IV synthetic. It calls for a numbered VW/Audi specification to be met.
If Group IV or V makes you feel better, use it to your heart's content.
There is a wealth of information out there outside of BITOG. You just need to look for it.
True. There is also a load of nonsense out there outside of BITOG, too. You just need to look for it.
The "real synthetic" war is dead and buried. The entire notion is obsolete. Even in Europe (and particularly Germany), where labelling rules are much more stringent, oils are specified based on ACEA or proprietary manufacturers' specifications. A new Audi doesn't ask for a Group IV synthetic. It calls for a numbered VW/Audi specification to be met.
If Group IV or V makes you feel better, use it to your heart's content.
Originally Posted By: Fyrb4ll
I guess that I am old fashioned and believe that if I am paying synthetic oil prices, I better get a synthetic oil.
Just because something is considered "synthetic" (group IV/V according to your definition), it doesn't automatically mean it's a great product. Additive package can make a huge difference, for example. There are some weak group IV/V oils out there, and there are also some outstanding group III/III+ oils out there, too. If you'd rather put your money on the word "synthetic" instead of specific mfg specs that determine the oil's actual performance, you can certainly do so, but it is "old fashioned" indeed. We here at BITOG (well, some of us at least) believe in buying a certain level of performance and not a jar of specific ingredients that may or may not add up to something good.
I guess that I am old fashioned and believe that if I am paying synthetic oil prices, I better get a synthetic oil.
Just because something is considered "synthetic" (group IV/V according to your definition), it doesn't automatically mean it's a great product. Additive package can make a huge difference, for example. There are some weak group IV/V oils out there, and there are also some outstanding group III/III+ oils out there, too. If you'd rather put your money on the word "synthetic" instead of specific mfg specs that determine the oil's actual performance, you can certainly do so, but it is "old fashioned" indeed. We here at BITOG (well, some of us at least) believe in buying a certain level of performance and not a jar of specific ingredients that may or may not add up to something good.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Fyrb4ll
I guess that I am old fashioned and believe that if I am paying synthetic oil prices, I better get a synthetic oil.
Just because something is considered "synthetic" (group IV/V according to your definition), it doesn't automatically mean it's a great product. Additive package can make a huge difference, for example. There are some weak group IV/V oils out there, and there are also some outstanding group III/III+ oils out there, too. If you'd rather put your money on the word "synthetic" instead of specific mfg specs that determine the oil's actual performance, you can certainly do so, but it is "old fashioned" indeed. We here at BITOG (well, some of us at least) believe in buying a certain level of performance and not a jar of specific ingredients that may or may not add up to something good.
Well, seeing as my truck is no longer under warranty, and the only spec my OM calls out is the anemic GM6094M, I believe the LM Vollsynthese[SM] will work.
Originally Posted By: Fyrb4ll
I guess that I am old fashioned and believe that if I am paying synthetic oil prices, I better get a synthetic oil.
Just because something is considered "synthetic" (group IV/V according to your definition), it doesn't automatically mean it's a great product. Additive package can make a huge difference, for example. There are some weak group IV/V oils out there, and there are also some outstanding group III/III+ oils out there, too. If you'd rather put your money on the word "synthetic" instead of specific mfg specs that determine the oil's actual performance, you can certainly do so, but it is "old fashioned" indeed. We here at BITOG (well, some of us at least) believe in buying a certain level of performance and not a jar of specific ingredients that may or may not add up to something good.
Well, seeing as my truck is no longer under warranty, and the only spec my OM calls out is the anemic GM6094M, I believe the LM Vollsynthese[SM] will work.
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