buy a kit . do it your self
Dealer Add-Ons
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Originally Posted By: eljefino
That's one of my favorite movie scenes. "You lied to me Mr. Lundergard, you're a bald face liar! A..[censored] liar! Where's my [censored] checkbook.."
That's one of my favorite movie scenes. "You lied to me Mr. Lundergard, you're a bald face liar! A..[censored] liar! Where's my [censored] checkbook.."
My Toyota dealer must be an oddball...I've purchased 2 new vehicles there and although they ask if I'm interested in the add-ons, I politely say no and we move on with the paperwork and finish the deal. When I purchased my RAV4 2 months ago, the paperwork took less than 30 minutes.
I know with the dealer chain I've dealt with for my last three vehicle purchases, the Finance Manager asked if I wanted the paint sealant and fabric protector for my bare bones 2007 Cobalt. A simple no was all it took. He said he figured as much!
For my 2008 Santa Fe (used), the big push was for a warranty package. They pushed pretty hard and tried several times, even calling me prior to taking delivery. I declined.
With my new Subaru, the 'latest' thing was to purchase a "maintenance contract". You basically pay up-front for oil changes and very basic maintenance like tire rotations for the first 12-24-36Kmi. Gotta be kidding me. A single no was all that one took.
I guess used car sales, service dept revenues and these add-ons are how they keep the place afloat.
Joel
For my 2008 Santa Fe (used), the big push was for a warranty package. They pushed pretty hard and tried several times, even calling me prior to taking delivery. I declined.
With my new Subaru, the 'latest' thing was to purchase a "maintenance contract". You basically pay up-front for oil changes and very basic maintenance like tire rotations for the first 12-24-36Kmi. Gotta be kidding me. A single no was all that one took.
I guess used car sales, service dept revenues and these add-ons are how they keep the place afloat.
Joel
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"The little add-on sticker says $800 for paint sealant, $600
for vinyl sealant and $300 for Scotchgard fabric sealant. How
much of this is negotiable? Talk about sticker shock!"
That's nothing. NOTHING. Yesterday my wife purchased a Chrysler 200 to replace her 185,000 mile '04 Mazda 6. In the showroom was a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8. Sticker was $66,000~. There was a dealer add on sticker for the paint\fabric protection for...............$15,000. There were three other smaller add-ons below that for tinting the two front windows - $399, VIN etching $190 and something else that escapes me for another few hundred bringing the total to 82,000+
for vinyl sealant and $300 for Scotchgard fabric sealant. How
much of this is negotiable? Talk about sticker shock!"
That's nothing. NOTHING. Yesterday my wife purchased a Chrysler 200 to replace her 185,000 mile '04 Mazda 6. In the showroom was a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8. Sticker was $66,000~. There was a dealer add on sticker for the paint\fabric protection for...............$15,000. There were three other smaller add-ons below that for tinting the two front windows - $399, VIN etching $190 and something else that escapes me for another few hundred bringing the total to 82,000+
Toyota as a manufacturer has a legally binding contract with a distributor in certain states. If you buy a vehicle there, you will be charged for add ons. The dealer pays, and you pay. There is no getting out of it.
That's why I don't buy Toyotas.
That's why I don't buy Toyotas.
Originally Posted By: MrCritical
Toyota as a manufacturer has a legally binding contract with a distributor in certain states. If you buy a vehicle there, you will be charged for add ons. The dealer pays, and you pay. There is no getting out of it.
That's why I don't buy Toyotas.
Huh? Don't want none of those "NON-legally binding contracts", now do we? Toyota US controls the FRANCHISE sale of their vehicles here in the US, not a "distributor". You work for the UAW or what?
Toyota as a manufacturer has a legally binding contract with a distributor in certain states. If you buy a vehicle there, you will be charged for add ons. The dealer pays, and you pay. There is no getting out of it.
That's why I don't buy Toyotas.
Huh? Don't want none of those "NON-legally binding contracts", now do we? Toyota US controls the FRANCHISE sale of their vehicles here in the US, not a "distributor". You work for the UAW or what?
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Originally Posted By: MrCritical
Toyota as a manufacturer has a legally binding contract with a distributor in certain states. If you buy a vehicle there, you will be charged for add ons. The dealer pays, and you pay. There is no getting out of it.
That's why I don't buy Toyotas.
This is actually true and Toyota-Japan knows it. It's one reason they invented Lexus, a short cut around those middlemen.
If I were in an affected region I would absolutely buy across state lines to dodge this.
Whoever inked that deal 50 years ago must be sitting on a mint.
Toyota as a manufacturer has a legally binding contract with a distributor in certain states. If you buy a vehicle there, you will be charged for add ons. The dealer pays, and you pay. There is no getting out of it.
That's why I don't buy Toyotas.
This is actually true and Toyota-Japan knows it. It's one reason they invented Lexus, a short cut around those middlemen.
If I were in an affected region I would absolutely buy across state lines to dodge this.
Whoever inked that deal 50 years ago must be sitting on a mint.
I was surprised when we got our Camry, they piled stuff on at the end. Got took on it too, as I don't buy often enough to know how to walk away (plus, at that point, we'd signed for the car, now it was down to financing). Honestly, I was expecting that when I bought my VW, but that was a cakewalk in comparasion.
Originally Posted By: Slick17601
My Toyota dealer must be an oddball...I've purchased 2 new vehicles there and although they ask if I'm interested in the add-ons, I politely say no and we move on with the paperwork and finish the deal. When I purchased my RAV4 2 months ago, the paperwork took less than 30 minutes.
PA...Was your dealer Bobby Rahal. I've had the same treatment there.
My Toyota dealer must be an oddball...I've purchased 2 new vehicles there and although they ask if I'm interested in the add-ons, I politely say no and we move on with the paperwork and finish the deal. When I purchased my RAV4 2 months ago, the paperwork took less than 30 minutes.
PA...Was your dealer Bobby Rahal. I've had the same treatment there.
I go by OTD price when pricing a new vehicle. I don't care about sticker, monthly payments or whatever. OTD price is what a vehicle really costs and what matters.
If the dealer decides to add in a few things after the OTD price is negotiated they lose because I only bring a check for the OTD price minus my deposit. At that point they can either remove them or lose the sale, I don't really care. No modern new car is that rare where I can't easily find another one, they make millions last I checked. Were not talking about a rare low production take it or leave it car.
Oh and my deposit is always on an Amex so I can easily get it back. Amex is quite aggressive which is why a lot of retailers don't like them.
I have found most salesmen who have any experience are actually pretty good about this. They know your not [censored] them and wasting their time, and don't waste yours. I expect a clean, fast transaction.
If the dealer decides to add in a few things after the OTD price is negotiated they lose because I only bring a check for the OTD price minus my deposit. At that point they can either remove them or lose the sale, I don't really care. No modern new car is that rare where I can't easily find another one, they make millions last I checked. Were not talking about a rare low production take it or leave it car.
Oh and my deposit is always on an Amex so I can easily get it back. Amex is quite aggressive which is why a lot of retailers don't like them.
I have found most salesmen who have any experience are actually pretty good about this. They know your not [censored] them and wasting their time, and don't waste yours. I expect a clean, fast transaction.
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Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: MrCritical
Toyota as a manufacturer has a legally binding contract with a distributor in certain states. If you buy a vehicle there, you will be charged for add ons. The dealer pays, and you pay. There is no getting out of it.
That's why I don't buy Toyotas.
Huh? Don't want none of those "NON-legally binding contracts", now do we? Toyota US controls the FRANCHISE sale of their vehicles here in the US, not a "distributor". You work for the UAW or what?
In what is called the "Gulf States", no they don't. They have a legally binding, can't-get-out-of-it distributor agreement and the dealer and the buyer get "lusterizing sealant, pin stripes, floor mats, and car rental assistance", whether they like it or not. Toyota has taken them to court, and lost. The dealer pays it, you pay it, or you don't get a Toyota in these areas.
Originally Posted By: MrCritical
Toyota as a manufacturer has a legally binding contract with a distributor in certain states. If you buy a vehicle there, you will be charged for add ons. The dealer pays, and you pay. There is no getting out of it.
That's why I don't buy Toyotas.
Huh? Don't want none of those "NON-legally binding contracts", now do we? Toyota US controls the FRANCHISE sale of their vehicles here in the US, not a "distributor". You work for the UAW or what?
In what is called the "Gulf States", no they don't. They have a legally binding, can't-get-out-of-it distributor agreement and the dealer and the buyer get "lusterizing sealant, pin stripes, floor mats, and car rental assistance", whether they like it or not. Toyota has taken them to court, and lost. The dealer pays it, you pay it, or you don't get a Toyota in these areas.
Originally Posted By: supton
I was surprised when we got our Camry, they piled stuff on at the end. Got took on it too, as I don't buy often enough to know how to walk away (plus, at that point, we'd signed for the car, now it was down to financing).
Could you please explain this a little more?
I'm not trying to bash you. I'm generally interested in hearing what happened, so I can hopefully avoid it in the future.
How did they add things after you signed a purchase agreement. Didn't the agreement include the price and everything?
I was surprised when we got our Camry, they piled stuff on at the end. Got took on it too, as I don't buy often enough to know how to walk away (plus, at that point, we'd signed for the car, now it was down to financing).
Could you please explain this a little more?
I'm not trying to bash you. I'm generally interested in hearing what happened, so I can hopefully avoid it in the future.
How did they add things after you signed a purchase agreement. Didn't the agreement include the price and everything?
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: supton
I was surprised when we got our Camry, they piled stuff on at the end. Got took on it too, as I don't buy often enough to know how to walk away (plus, at that point, we'd signed for the car, now it was down to financing).
Could you please explain this a little more?
I'm not trying to bash you. I'm generally interested in hearing what happened, so I can hopefully avoid it in the future.
How did they add things after you signed a purchase agreement. Didn't the agreement include the price and everything?
I am gonna go out on a limb and assume the F&I guy added it into the loan after the sales agreement was signed. That is where all the money is made on a new car sale for the dealer.
Originally Posted By: supton
I was surprised when we got our Camry, they piled stuff on at the end. Got took on it too, as I don't buy often enough to know how to walk away (plus, at that point, we'd signed for the car, now it was down to financing).
Could you please explain this a little more?
I'm not trying to bash you. I'm generally interested in hearing what happened, so I can hopefully avoid it in the future.
How did they add things after you signed a purchase agreement. Didn't the agreement include the price and everything?
I am gonna go out on a limb and assume the F&I guy added it into the loan after the sales agreement was signed. That is where all the money is made on a new car sale for the dealer.
Yes, we had shook hands and signed something (going off memory, it was a year ago now). Price of car was agreed to, price of trade-in was agreed to: and then I learned about the existance of the F&I guy. My loss. I hadn't been expecting two rounds of pricing.
We had agreed to take the car, we liked the car, we kinda needed the car, so we were in something of a bind. Plus, a stripper Camry with stickshift and 0% APR? Not exactly common. [Only option it's missing that we want is fog lamps, nothing else, and I don't think fogs were available in base model anyhow.] I think I did ok in the end. The Honda traded in needed lots of work but netted a decent trade-in, and we got 0% APR on the loan. Not as good as it could have been; but certainly not as bad as some have gotten.
We had agreed to take the car, we liked the car, we kinda needed the car, so we were in something of a bind. Plus, a stripper Camry with stickshift and 0% APR? Not exactly common. [Only option it's missing that we want is fog lamps, nothing else, and I don't think fogs were available in base model anyhow.] I think I did ok in the end. The Honda traded in needed lots of work but netted a decent trade-in, and we got 0% APR on the loan. Not as good as it could have been; but certainly not as bad as some have gotten.
there was a saturn store here that would put pinstripes and chrome wheel arches on every car, looked ridiculous.
I went to a nissan store once looking at a Titan pickup; every car on the lot had add-ons. I asked the guy 'what if I want one without the add-ons?'
he said I would have to go somewhere else.
I did.
my favorite dealer in the whole wide world is North Penn Imports in Colmar, PA, they sell mazdas and VW's.
no add-ons, no pressure, F&I guy takes 10min.
I went to a nissan store once looking at a Titan pickup; every car on the lot had add-ons. I asked the guy 'what if I want one without the add-ons?'
he said I would have to go somewhere else.
I did.
my favorite dealer in the whole wide world is North Penn Imports in Colmar, PA, they sell mazdas and VW's.
no add-ons, no pressure, F&I guy takes 10min.
Years ago I ran into this problem on a new 98 Grand Prix GT my ex-wife and I were buying. It had the scotchgard, pinstriping, and some other stuff on it. All of the cars on the lot had this package on it and had the ADM sticker on the window next to the factory window sticker. The car we were buying did not have the ADM sticker on it because they had forgotten to put it on. They were trying to make me pay for it even though it didn't have the sticker.
I told them I wasn't paying for it, didn't want it, and they could just find me a car without it. Needless to say, I didn't pay for it. They were [censored] at me anyway because I wouldn't budge off of my $500 over invoice offer on the car and finally agreed to that just to get me out of there.
You have to be firm with these guys or they will walk all over you. The biggest asset you have is your feet so you can walk yourself out of there when they start putting the pressure on. You have to be firm in what you want and what you are willing to pay and do your homework before even stepping foot on the lot so you have a rough idea what the vehicle is worth and how much you are willing to pay for it.
Wayne
I told them I wasn't paying for it, didn't want it, and they could just find me a car without it. Needless to say, I didn't pay for it. They were [censored] at me anyway because I wouldn't budge off of my $500 over invoice offer on the car and finally agreed to that just to get me out of there.
You have to be firm with these guys or they will walk all over you. The biggest asset you have is your feet so you can walk yourself out of there when they start putting the pressure on. You have to be firm in what you want and what you are willing to pay and do your homework before even stepping foot on the lot so you have a rough idea what the vehicle is worth and how much you are willing to pay for it.
Wayne
I've never really had much of a problem with dealers trying to push add-ons. Usually , if we make it to that stage, they are so worn down and frustrated that they just want to get the paperwork over with. Last truck I bought, I paid cash for and had the check written out before making it to the F&I office. Walked in and the guy started in. I asked him where his Coke machine was. He asked why. I told him that I would be there sipping on a diet coke and he could come get me when he wanted to take care of business and complete the paperwork on the OTD price that the Sales Manager had already agreed on. I never made it out of his office. I was out the door and on the highway headed home in the truck I just bought in ten minutes.
When I buy a car, I do the homework ahead of time and have a fair price in mind (not a payment), have any financing already lined up (unless there is a financing incentive through the mfg), and I simply take control of the situation because I am in control of the one thing that they want: MONEY. If they don't want the business, there is usually another dealership down the street who does.
When I buy a car, I do the homework ahead of time and have a fair price in mind (not a payment), have any financing already lined up (unless there is a financing incentive through the mfg), and I simply take control of the situation because I am in control of the one thing that they want: MONEY. If they don't want the business, there is usually another dealership down the street who does.
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