Why 10W-30 In a Honda S2000?

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Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You'll see a number of silly replies, especially when you consider that this car was current during Honda's twenty grade era.
The answer is simple.
Use a 10W-30 or a 5W-40 in your S2000, and the engine will be just fine.
I would ignore those recommending other grades, since I doubt that they have the experience in designing and building high revving fours that Honda does.
Honda had a reason for the oil grades it specified.
Use those recommended grades and sleep easy.
Ignore the internet experts, since in this case, you really do have a highly stressed engine.
Has there ever been a normally aspirated car engine with higher specific output that you could buy off a dealership floor?


I'm with you. I agree. I was just believing someone could truly explain (and not just speculate) why Honda chose the 10w-30. I'll do more googling....
 
My personal guess is that the engine that frequently revs to 8000 or above, constitutes a very high shear, high temperature workout for conventional oil. This is probably the reason 5W30 grade is avoided, with the thinking being that 5W30 will shear down to something relatively thin more easily than 10W30 or 5W40.

On the bright side, you can change your oil cheaply using $20 oil change coupons at MIDAS, CarX and such, since all those quick lube places by default give you 10W30 conventional (any other grade or syn-blend or synthetic usually costs extra).

IMHO, a good modern synthetic 5W30 grade oil should work fine in this car. You could also try the "German" Castrol 0W-30, which is known to be a stout oil but without compromising cold flow properties.
 
Here are some recent UOA's I've done:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post2471353

Even the 3.7 HTHS LE 8130 and 3.5 HTHS GC sheared quite a bit, but stayed in grade. The Edge with Ti probably has a lower HTHS (don't know for sure what it is), but is already falling below a 30 grade at temp with less mileage than the other two. It is still protecting, but for how long?

We're starting to see some AP1 F20C1 bearing failures over at s2ki.com. Not sure of causes, but lubricant failure could be one possibility. A couple had aftermarket oil pans or baffles installed. I wonder about those more than the lubricant used.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You'll see a number of silly replies, especially when you consider that this car was current during Honda's twenty grade era.
The answer is simple.
Use a 10W-30 or a 5W-40 in your S2000, and the engine will be just fine.
I would ignore those recommending other grades, since I doubt that they have the experience in designing and building high revving fours that Honda does.
Honda had a reason for the oil grades it specified.
Use those recommended grades and sleep easy.
Ignore the internet experts, since in this case, you really do have a highly stressed engine.
Has there ever been a normally aspirated car engine with higher specific output that you could buy off a dealership floor?

Well that's a pretty "silly reply".

Understanding the operational viscosity of a typical 10W-30 dino means one doesn't have to blindly stick to what is now an obsolete grade recommendation.
A synthetic 5W-30 or 0W-30 for that matter is clearly the way to go.
 
Originally Posted By: Gebo
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I was just believing someone could truly explain (and not just speculate) why Honda chose the 10w-30. I'll do more googling....

Gebo, this is not speculation and you really are over thinking this.
A 10W-30 dino of the day is generally heavier and more shear resistant than a 5W-30 dino. Therefore in service a 10W-30 will likely retain more of it's original viscosity.
You do understand that the 10W of an SAE grade is just the cold starting performance number?
In the move to synthetic oils that are inherently more shear stable the 10W-30 grade has been rendered largely obsolete.

A premium 5W-30 synthetic oil will provide superior overall lubrication to a 10W-30 dino. End of story.
 
BTW Gebo, forgot to say congrats and enjoy the car. I sold mine after getting the Elise and the longer I've had the lotus the more I appreciate the S2000.

w
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Gebo
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I was just believing someone could truly explain (and not just speculate) why Honda chose the 10w-30. I'll do more googling....

Gebo, this is not speculation and you really are over thinking this.
A 10W-30 dino of the day is generally heavier and more shear resistant than a 5W-30 dino. Therefore in service a 10W-30 will likely retain more of it's original viscosity.
You do understand that the 10W of an SAE grade is just the cold starting performance number?
In the move to synthetic oils that are inherently more shear stable the 10W-30 grade has been rendered largely obsolete.

A premium 5W-30 synthetic oil will provide superior overall lubrication to a 10W-30 dino. End of story.


I don't believe I'm "over" thinking. I believe I'm merely thinking. Yes, I do know the 10W refers to cold starting parameters. I must not be asking my question properly or I'm too thick headed to understand.

In 2009 they Honda recommended 10W-30 for S2K's. That's 3 years ago. Have oils advanced that quickly that Honda is so far behind their oil recommendations? Why haven't they changed their own recommendations? Is it truly because they have to submit data to some governmental agency to get their "new and improved" oil weight recommendations approved. Maybe this is part of Obama Care?

All joking aside, I'm not debating whether a synthetic 5W-30 synthetic is better than a 10W-30 dino. DUH.....

In 2009 (last year they made S2K) they were recommending a 10W-30. Why didn't Honda change their recommendations based on the tremendous advancement in engine oils from 2001 to 2009? This doesn't make sense to me unless there is something Honda has found out with these engines that we don't know.

I'm not asking about an oil recommendation or what i should use or which is better. All I want to know why Honda in 2012 continues to recommend 10W-30 for all S2K's?
 
Honda recommends 10W-30 and 5W-40 grades because that's what grades were used to pass their testing in the F20C1, and then later in the F22C1. It's that simple. Did they try other grades? I would suspect so, since Honda likes to advertise fuel economy as well as dependability.

You have to remember that the S2000 was initially supposed to be a one year run model in 2000 to celebrate/commemorate the founder's racing engine heritage and anniversary. It was never intended to run for 10 years. When the AP2 with the F22C1 came out in 2004, they obviously wanted to offer their customers an S2000 for a few more years anyways. 10W-30 and 5W-40 once again where chosen after testing and certification. Getting the test results would be the only way to see exactly why they chose and continue to recommend those grades.
 
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
Honda recommends 10W-30 and 5W-40 grades because that's what grades were used to pass their testing in the F20C1, and then later in the F22C1. It's that simple. Did they try other grades? I would suspect so, since Honda likes to advertise fuel economy as well as dependability.

You have to remember that the S2000 was initially supposed to be a one year run model in 2000 to celebrate/commemorate the founder's racing engine heritage and anniversary. It was never intended to run for 10 years. When the AP2 with the F22C1 came out in 2004, they obviously wanted to offer their customers an S2000 for a few more years anyways. 10W-30 and 5W-40 once again where chosen after testing and certification. Getting the test results would be the only way to see exactly why they chose and continue to recommend those grades.


Thanks! I'm beginning to see.
 
Originally Posted By: Gebo
I don't believe I'm "over" thinking. I believe I'm merely thinking. Yes, I do know the 10W refers to cold starting parameters. I must not be asking my question properly or I'm too thick headed to understand.


You're over-thinking it (which isn't a bad thing), but you're not being thick headed. One merely has to remember that oils have advanced.

As to why 10w-30 is still currently specified? That's a good question. Perhaps, because it's such a low volume vehicle, they found little incentive to change to a 5w-30, much less something lighter. With respect to CAFE and oil recommendations, we could see that a lot of trucks retained legacy recommendations for a longer period than did cars, simply because the rules were substantially different for trucks.

I'm assuming it also specifies conventional. Perhaps the engineers have more confidence in conventional 10w-30 than conventional 5w-30 and are simply covering things for the average conventional user.

Or, as I mentioned, they were lazy and didn't bother. Many of the Infiniti/Nissan oil recommendation manual pages are identical to what there used to be when other choices were offered, with the other choices simply deleted. There are occasional mangled references to manual quotations that no longer exist. Perhaps they didn't bother. Considering the weather conditions in which they're likely to be driven, there's another lack of incentive to change the specification to a 5w-30.
 
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