Amsoil AME 15w40, 20k miles, 04 Chevy 2500HD

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Oil was changed at the time of this last test.

First two runs 6k/8k were using Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme. The 9k/12k/20k were the first run of AME. Refilled with another batch of the Amsoil AME.

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Don't really miss the 5w40. During the run I also changed out the gear oil from Valvoline to Amsoil so it's not a true comparison, but the MPG actually ticked up just slightly. These are according to the GM computer.

VPBE Amsoil
Miles 8210.9 19778.4
Fuel 466.8 1110.1
MPG 17.6 17.8
Avg (MPH)38 39

With regards to the makeup oil, not really sure. After the 12K mile check it seemed to require more topping off. The sump capacity is 10 quarts.
 
Excellent results in the extension of the OCI.

If the performance trend continues, I could see 30k+ miles easily; wear is low, contamination low, plenty of TBN left.

The true benefit of synthetics is beginning to show through here.

Curious; is the OLM being monitored? How many OLM cycles were seen in this 20k miles? As you may know, Amsoil will warrant the PAO based fluids to 3x the OEM OCI (or one year) with no need for UOAs. Past that, UOAs are required for continued use.
 
I drained the oil right after the OLM hit 2x (9 months). I'm hoping to take this next one up to 3x, if not further. I agree that Amsoil warrants up to 3x, I just feel safer watching and gradually climbing. I'm still new to the whole extended drain interval thing, so I don't mind spending a few extra dollars with Blackstone to sleep better at night.

AME Warranty
Three times (3X) OEM* recommendation, not to exceed 50,000 miles/600 hours or one year, whichever comes first. Drain intervals may be extended further with oil analysis
*Operating conditions and drain intervals for severe and normal service are defined by the OEM. Refer to your owner’s manual
 
Interesting; thank you.

The OLM hit an average of 10k miles twice, if I understand you correctly. (Understandably it might have not been exactly equal; 9K & 11k, etc). That is very much in line with what we see on a large variety of Dmax engines (only exception is the LMM, which has the added dread of in-cylinder regens ... = fuel dilution). Yet even then, the OLM seems to be a reasonable predictor, often cutting the OCI much shorter in an LMM.


This is also an example of how well Amsoil does in particular. Often, in the Dmax, the Amsoil products will horribly spike the Cu. But inexplicably, it does not happen to all rigs. And I don't know of anyone that can predict when, where and why some get hit hard while others do not. Regardless, this is an excellent example of the performance potential of AME. There is every reason to believe 30k miles or more are possible here. It would need 30k miles or more to break even on ROI, but certainly the potential is there. Very impressive so far.

Your wear metals, while cumulative, are moving at such a slow rate that it's hard to predict at this point where the mileage would be capped. At this point, it would be a good idea to start deciding on some condemnation limits, because mileage really should not be the determining factor here. In particular, the Fe will likely be the prime issue, presuming the others stay so low. If you set a very conservative number of 50ppm for Fe (typically lower than most OEMs allow), then you'd still be able to see 40k miles or so. And the TBN depletion, while not always linear, would also possibly approach 40k miles.

This is very good data here. Stay the course. Perhaps sample every 10k miles on this new AME load, and only when you get near a limit should you increase the sample rate to perhaps every 5k miles? In the short term, many UOA samples cost too much money, but once you establish a reasonable UOA frequency, and start to get predicatble lube performance, you can back off a bit and make the ROI balance out.

I'll offer this caution though; small-sized sump systems make it very hard to achieve the ROI. Even if you extend the OCI greatly with synthetics, the cost of a Blackstone UOA (with TBN) can be just about the same cost as a dino OCI. It's very hard to get a load of expensive synthetic with a premium filter and re-occuring UOAs to ever break even in a Dmax ... Each time you creep up on the payout, you spend another $30+ on a UOA. And for that money, you can easily OCI with conventional oil/filter ...
These type of plans work great for large sumps, where the cost of the UOA is signficantly less than 15 gallons of expensive oil. But small sumps just struggle to ever make it work out.



Overall, this UOA is very encouraging and you're on the right path here. I enjoy seeing this type of dedicated plan.
 
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I certainly understand your point when talking about the smaller sumps and the extended miles you need on something like an AME which costs quite a bit more than a dino oil. When you are looking at the ROI, how much weight is placed on things like time and labor? I would venture to guess the majority of consumers pay to have an oil change done, the labor for each oil change would need to be included in the decision of going conventional vs syn. Now for some of us who do our own oil changes, the cost may not be the same but the time it takes should play some sort of role in the decision process. All things equal I would rather change my oil once a year instead of 2/3/4 a year.

The wear metals is an interesting question that I can't answer. Again I'm new to this arena, so I will be the first to admit I don't have the knowledge needed to establish what a reasonable safe mark should be. Up to this point I've been relying on the Blackstone/OAI's of the world to provide me an idea of what is safe and when something is flagged. The universal averages from Blackstone also provides info for comparison, but doesn't really tell you how much higher you can go in a given category before you need to drain. You mention that most OEMs set allowance for items like Fe. How easy is it to find that data, and is it usually safe to set your limits based on those numbers? Are there certain wear metals you should be more cautious with than others?

The question of when to sample for extended OCI's has been another one that I'm struggling with. Take this report for example, Blackstone says try for 22K. Granted I have two OCI's now for historical purposes, but I've got to admit I'm nervous driving for 22K miles and then sending in a sample. Is that typically what is done, or is it better to do something like what you suggested and maybe each time the OLM goes off (~10K) send one off? Sure I know that is the safest method, but to your point that starts to get expensive and eats into any ROI you may have gotten by using that oil in the first place.
 
Absolutely time is a consideration for some people. But which direction? Some folks (me for one) like DIY stuff, and feel I get a good chance to check out other things like ball joints, grease zerks, etc when under the truck. But - some people don't like that, are not good at it, or simply don't have enough time for it. The ROI most certainly can take into account "down time" as a cost, but only if it truly affects income. Otherwise, it's just a hobby.



For condemnation levels, check out this link:
http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/Publications/UsedOil/2008020.pdf
Page 11 has the condemnation levels from major OEMs. Note that Isuzu/GM ins't on there, but it's reaonable to see some common ground where perhaps 75-100ppm would be safe. As I said, 50ppm would be ultra safe, and proably more conservative than necessary. The whole article is a good read, but I find the condemnation levels of special note. Most people freak out when they see a high ppm count, but it needs to be taken into context. 50ppm of Fe in 50k miles is a great wear rate. 50ppm of Fe in 10k miles is high wear rate. Neither is dangerous, but high wear rates can indicate problems and caution is needed. The thing to understand is that BOTH wear rates, and wear totals, must be understood and tracked to really have a good feel for how the equipment is progressing in it's lifecycle.


As for the UOA cycle, that too is something that must be experimented with to find a good ROI. My earlier point with Amsoil's 3x factor is that they don't require a UOA up to 3x the OCI to honor the warranty, and so the UOA cost can be avoided. So, in theory, if the OLM was telling you that 10k miles was a reasonable OCI, and you could go 3x further on Amsoil, then 30k miles is close to your ROI. However, if you use a premium expensive filter, that will push it out a bit further. Since AME is easily 3x more money than dino, then the OCI needs to be 3x to break even (plus filter cost above what a "normal" filter would cost). Given the performance I see in this UOA, I'd say that's attainable.

However, longer OCIs with no UOA takes away other benefits gleaned from UOAs, such as contamination knowledge (dirt, fuel, coolant intrusion).

It's a catch 22; it's just darn hard to justify UOAs in small sump systems.

For example, I can run dino HDEO for $2/qrt, and change oil every 10k miles in a Dmax, and still have money to UOA from a lesser expensive service, and KNOW WITH CERTAINTY all is fine, whereas the Amsoil 3x approach only PRESUMES all is fine.

It's a bit of a game; some are good at it, some are not.

This UOA simply shows excellent wear in the engine and excellent lifecycle in the oil. It's a good start towards earning the ROI.
 
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I've done 3 UOA's on my Dmax. Combined with my fleet experience here with other GM truck OLM's I have developed a bit of confidence in the algorithms used.

Follow the OLM. Use a premium dino or any synthetic on sale.

Enjoy the extremely long and productive engine life!
 
I think that due to the extra cost of oil in the UK that the ROI will be more substantial for UK based forum users.

Especially when you consider that the few Amsoil distributers in the UK are charging up to £60/5 for five quarts.

Off the top of my head that is the thick end of $100.

I do have relatives in NY and I hope to get them.to sign.up as prefered customers or dealers with Amsoil to enable a cheaper price.

I wouldn't be against selling Amsoil in the UK as a sideline. As I think I could substantially decrease the prices for UK users.

It is a pity that companies are so eager to profiteer to such an extent.

With preferred customer discount 5 quarts might be as little as £20. I think £40 mark up is too much even if you have to pay shipping.

The Taxi I rent out does 40/45k miles a year so I hope to have some good data within the next few months to share with the forum.

It will be relevant to any owners for Jeep Liberty's as it has a similar VM diesel engine.
 
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