Asbestos in plaster

[JHZR2]

Recently brought to my attention that there was asbestos used in some plaster. All ours is in good condition, and the room we had redone didnt have plaster walls when we gutted them. The neighbor who has essentially the same house is having his tested, we may do the same.

I've been researching, it's unclear as to the real situation. Can anyone with experience shed insight to these?

1) asbestos was reay only used between the 40s to the 70s in plaster.
2) asbestos was used in plaster because horsehair was less prevalent
3) asbestos was used in gypsum plaster, not lime plaster
4) asbestos was only used in the white top skim oar of plaster, as it prevented cracking
5) asbestos was only used in textured coatings and popcorn coats
6) asbestos was only added at roughly 2% to plaster
7) a little asbestos went a long way, so only very little was used in the plaster
8) asbestos was only needed in situations where the workers were slow or the room was very big, as it maintained workability
9) asbestos that was used was the white Chrysotile type which has fewer hazards
10) asbestos was more expensive than horsehair so wasn't used until entirely necessary


Thanks for any insight you can shed on this. There is some info out there but it is all bits and pieces. The best advice is to do the test for $25, but some basis of understanding helps minimize excessive concern.

Thanks!

 

[SrDriver]

I did asbestos removal for a few years.

Only real way is as you mentioned having a test done. Asbestos is not dangerous as long as the fibers do not get into the air.

Once it's presence is known a certified removal company is required.

Key is keeping it from becoming friable - getting into the air.

 

[JHZR2]

Agree. More curious as to what was the prevalent reasoning and associated techniques.

 

[tommygunn]

There's places where asbestos was used a ton, and places where it wasn't used at all, so yeah its really down to getting the test done. You're probably in the good though, safety wise, because you haven't done what some people do which is demo a ton of stuff...and then realize it could be asbestos laden.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Recently brought to my attention that there was asbestos used in some plaster. All ours is in good condition, and the room we had redone didnt have plaster walls when we gutted them. The neighbor who has essentially the same house is having his tested, we may do the same.

I've been researching, it's unclear as to the real situation. Can anyone with experience shed insight to these?

1) asbestos was reay only used between the 40s to the 70s in plaster.
2) asbestos was used in plaster because horsehair was less prevalent
3) asbestos was used in gypsum plaster, not lime plaster
4) asbestos was only used in the white top skim oar of plaster, as it prevented cracking
5) asbestos was only used in textured coatings and popcorn coats
6) asbestos was only added at roughly 2% to plaster
7) a little asbestos went a long way, so only very little was used in the plaster
8) asbestos was only needed in situations where the workers were slow or the room was very big, as it maintained workability
9) asbestos that was used was the white Chrysotile type which has fewer hazards
10) asbestos was more expensive than horsehair so wasn't used until entirely necessary


Thanks for any insight you can shed on this. There is some info out there but it is all bits and pieces. The best advice is to do the test for $25, but some basis of understanding helps minimize excessive concern.

Thanks!


Your in NJ, drive to Manville NJ and talk to people there who worked at JM. I lived in Somerville and knew plenty of college kids who worked summers at JM. I wonder how they are doing?

 

[JHZR2]

Interesting, didnt realize that is where Manville was...

Still not sure if they will know the answers on techniques of making plaster back in the day...

 

[JOD]

This is a pretty regional thing, so your best bet would be to talk to some old tradesmen in your area. Out here, it simply wasn't used in plaster. It was used is some popcorn ceiling textures in the mid-century era.

One thing to consider is whether you really want to know. If you're moving a wall or something, it would be nice to know! If it's just to satisfy your curiosity though, you should consider the ramifications: if you sell your house house at some point, you'll have to disclose it if you know you have asbestos in there (or risk paying for abatement if you knowingly don't disclose). A persnickety buyer may end up trying to use it for buying leverage, and there's basically no way it's going to help you during the sale.

Just something to think about before you have it tested.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

There is only one way to know for sure and that is to have it tested. For the safety of your family, and since you're doing work that may involve releasing fibers, it's foolish not to know for certain.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
There is only one way to know for sure and that is to have it tested. For the safety of your family, and since you're doing work that may involve releasing fibers, it's foolish not to know for certain.



Where did I say that it wasn't going to be tested first if we were to work on it (which we currently don't need to)?

I'm more curious about when and why asbestos was used, as in my experience, plaster work has horsehair, not asbestos in it. It's more a curiosity and a when and why thing than anything else.

 

[01rangerxl]

The reason I have heard most often for its use has been its fire retardant qualities.

 

[surfstar]

Asbestos was used in many things, not just for fire retardancy, but because it is resilient too. Also it was added to things like plaster, joint compound, etc. to help them be applied - allowed them to flow better and be more workable. In spray applications it was applied in the hopper of the gun to help with even-ing the coating and also kept the guns from clogging. Many job sites had a bag of asbestos lying around and the workers would add it to whatever they were applying or the method of application - that is why it is so variable in its application and where it is found today. (can also vary in concentration within one building/material.) It can also be found in materials produced after the ban (ban was only of friable materials, asbestos can still be used today in non-friable stuff).

Bottom line, you can only be sure if it is tested. Also easy and safe to DIY and send it to a lab - just research DIY sampling beforehand.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: surfstar
Asbestos was used in many things, not just for fire retardancy, but because it is resilient too. Also it was added to things like plaster, joint compound, etc. to help them be applied - allowed them to flow better and be more workable. In spray applications it was applied in the hopper of the gun to help with even-ing the coating and also kept the guns from clogging. Many job sites had a bag of asbestos lying around and the workers would add it to whatever they were applying or the method of application - that is why it is so variable in its application and where it is found today. (can also vary in concentration within one building/material.) It can also be found in materials produced after the ban (ban was only of friable materials, asbestos can still be used today in non-friable stuff).

Bottom line, you can only be sure if it is tested. Also easy and safe to DIY and send it to a lab - just research DIY sampling beforehand.



Thanks, that's the kind of thing I was looking for! So it helped flow and workability of coatings. Any idea if this mattered on the base (grey) plaster coat, versus the white skim coat?

Any idea how much tended to be used? was it a handful by folks who had a feel for it, or were there optimal combinations?

Its just incredibly interesting to me...

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: surfstar
Many job sites had a bag of asbestos lying around and the workers would add it to whatever they were applying or the method of application - that is why it is so variable in its application and where it is found today.


That is freaking crazy! I thought it was always an already added ingredient; I had no idea there were just bags of asbestos to throw around like that.

 

[doitmyself]

I also worry about how much asbestos I (we) may have been exposed to during remodeling projects of not too old homes (post WWII). Floor tiles and sheeting, ceiling tiles, roofing felt, exterior siding all potentially had asbestos in them.

Before our awareness, we just cut it up with power tools, blew off the brake dust with a compressor, etc.. Yikes!

When they tested my workplace (1960's construction), they also took samples of the drywall/sheet rock.

 

[TC]

I’m an Environmental, Health & Safety Administrator at a Fortune 500 aerospace plant, so I have some familiarity with this. Others here have posted some great info too, I see.

From Wikipedia…
“Asbestos became increasingly popular among manufacturers and builders in the late 19th century because of its sound absorption, average tensile strength, its resistance to fire, heat, electrical and chemical damage, and affordability. It was used in such applications as electrical insulation for hotplate wiring and in building insulation. When asbestos is used for its resistance to fire or heat, the fibers are often mixed with cement (resulting in fiber cement) or woven into fabric or mats…According to the U.S. EPA Asbestos Building Inspectors Manual, chrysotile accounts for approximately 95% of asbestos found in buildings in the United States.” (FYI, chrysotile is unsafe, per your question.)

Our plant’s buildings, some of them dating to 1962 and 1968, have 0% - 5% ACM (asbestos containing materials) in them, a typical content. So, at most, a floor tile or “cottage cheese” ceiling in our plant may contain 5% asbestos, although we’ve chosen to remove much of that over the years. In short, structural asbestos is simply NOT harmful….unless you agitate it in some way, put it airborne, and breath it….and then it might mess with you healthwise…..possibly soon, but much more likely 10, 20 or 30 years from now. It’s a RESPIRATORY health threat. Undamaged asbestos sitting unmolested in a ceiling, pipe wrap, or decorative wall siding (as examples) is simply not a threat. But if you’re disturbing those areas in some way – drilling, sanding, scraping, tear-down, etc. – you may have an issue. Encapsulation and wetting are two common means of protection. ACM floor tiles with multiple coats of floor wax are effectively encapsulated, for example, as are layers of paint upon a plaster wall. (Yummm….lead.) If you’re gonna drill into an ACM wall, try wetting the hole with shaving cream during the process or vacuuming up the dust as you drill (although there may be a need for a HEPA disposable vacuum bag – look for “HEPA” or “99.9%” ). For something more than INCIDENTAL work, a professional contractor familiar with asbestos protocols would be appropriate. Lastly, don’t let Charlie Sheen do your ACM work, and don’t attempt to enshroud your dog or cat with asbestos for fire protection – neither of these end well, trust me.