Lubegard Automatic Transmission Flush

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

What I find amazing is that you can condemn an entire brand's powertrain engineering based on what is essentially one transmission here: the AX4S.


I said the AX4S was the specific trans I had in mind. The entire A-series trans line, and pretty much every single FWD auto they made was a turd. If you really want me to go into, I will definitely do so, but I hoping you will do a little research first, and not make me have to write a lengthy post about it all.

At that point, all you have left is their RWD autos, and we just covered the situation with its volume leader in the RWD sector.

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You've been tossing around statements on this board that Ford can't engineer transmissions, Ford overloads transmissions....etc but they all appear to be based on one freakin' transmission model here. Did one fail and cause you to lose a loved one on the way to the hospital or something?


I will definitely be making a mental note on how quickly you jump to conclusions. You might have noticed by now that I have owned at least 3 Ford vehicles, and seem to have some very specific knowledge on Ford vehicles, and their issues. Getting a clue yet? My family is a Ford family for the most part. It's hard not to know what's wrong with Fords when there's so [censored] many of them around, and you are informed of and asked to research and diagnose all of their issues. LOL

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- GM has made some pretty poor transmissions in the past.
- Ford has made some pretty poor transmissions in the past. This would be one of them.
- Honda has made some pretty poor transmissions in the past. My MIL owns one in an Odyssey.
- Chrysler has made some pretty poor transmissions in the past.

But they've all made some pretty bloody good ones too. And aside from the converter shudder, the 4R70W, AOD, and AOD-E were generally pretty good transmissions (I have one with coming up on 400K on it).

Regarding Jerry, yes, the J-mod is a popular upgrade for the 4R70W, making the shifts faster and firmer. And Ford SHOULD have upgraded the slushbox for Mark VIII use in this manner from the get-go. I can agree with you there. But a quick look to guys like Lentech will show that the issues in this application weren't because the transmission was junk or poorly designed. There were things that should have been upgraded/beefed-up that weren't initially. These items were fixed later.


You do realize that everything you just listed are engineering/design issues, right? That if they were well engineered, they wouldn't have had those issues in the first place? You seem to have taken my statements to mean that every single component in the transmission was total and utter trash. Not the case. But it is important to remember that even the most notoriously [censored] transmissions only end up that way because of one or two poorly designed parts. So yes, if you have a transmission with a few poorly designed components, it is a poorly designed transmission. Aside from maybe some 1950's Lada that might have had a plastic gearset, cardboard clutches, fiberglass case, and paper/origami valve body, I can't even imagine a notorious transmission that just has every single one of its parts complete garbage.

Ask anybody who signed off on tens of thousands of dollars of debt on a brand new Ford just to end up with shudder, roller clutch transmission death, slipping under 30k miles, or any of the other issues those trannies gave if the transmission was poorly designed.

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Your criticisms of Ford here apply to any auto manufacturer, so if you have a VALID reason for singling out Ford, I'd be interested to hear it.


There's no doubt about that. I think Mazda has a worse record than Ford for screwing up ATXs. They're so bad, they even screwed up good ATXs that they bought from other companies.

However, the reason why Ford always gets the honorable mention when it comes to bad ATXs is because of experience. It's one thing to read about how bad a certain marque's trannies are, and quite a different thing to know it firsthand.

If it's worth anything, I think Ford had the greatest turnaround where this matter is concerned. Semi-synthetic fluid, giant air/fluid tranny coolers, large capacity systems, combining forces with GM for the new 6SP auto, in-depth revisions of bad components, etc. None of our current vehicles have any tranny issues, and we really like Ford vehicles overall despite all of those nasty transmissions and bad diesel engines they sold us. Warranty service was never an issue. They knew what they did, and they were never shy about fixing it, so whatever.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp

I said the AX4S was the specific trans I had in mind. The entire A-series trans line, and pretty much every single FWD auto they made was a turd. If you really want me to go into, I will definitely do so, but I hoping you will do a little research first, and not make me have to write a lengthy post about it all.


I'll agree with you that Ford's FWD transmissions haven't been a historical strong suite for them.

No research necessary, I just felt you were ripping on the brand in this thread, and in a few others, for transmission issues where I feel they are certainly not the only one to have had issues in this department, nor do I feel they stand out in that regard.



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I will definitely be making a mental note on how quickly you jump to conclusions. You might have noticed by now that I have owned at least 3 Ford vehicles, and seem to have some very specific knowledge on Ford vehicles, and their issues. Getting a clue yet? My family is a Ford family for the most part. It's hard not to know what's wrong with Fords when there's so [censored] many of them around, and you are informed of and asked to research and diagnose all of their issues. LOL


I ONLY jumped to conclusions based on how hard you seemed to be ripping on Ford specifically for transmission issues and omitted mentioning other brands.

We've been a Ford family since the Model T, so I've got a pile of experience with their stuff as well. That being said, we historically never bought FWD vehicles, the only one being the Focus that my wife was driving until recently.

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You do realize that everything you just listed are engineering/design issues, right? That if they were well engineered, they wouldn't have had those issues in the first place?


But those design/engineering issues with the 4R70W really only became issues in higher power applications like your Mark VIII. So at that point are they design/engineering issues or were they just component spec'ing cheapness by the accounting department, refusing to allow the better parts to be used until warranty issues showed that they should have gone forward with those upgrades on the HO applications the first time around?

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You seem to have taken my statements to mean that every single component in the transmission was total and utter trash. Not the case.


Well, in my defence, you didn't state otherwise

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But it is important to remember that even the most notoriously [censored] transmissions only end up that way because of one or two poorly designed parts. So yes, if you have a transmission with a few poorly designed components, it is a poorly designed transmission. Aside from maybe some 1950's Lada that might have had a plastic gearset, cardboard clutches, fiberglass case, and paper/origami valve body, I can't even imagine a notorious transmission that just has every single one of its parts complete garbage.


I don't think we are speaking of the same thing here. If we look at Ben's example, that is essentially a relatively stock 4R70W transmission holding up well on an engine making several times its rated power handling.

I have two friends with 525RWHP/534RWHP Mustangs running AOD/C4 transmissions respectively. Very little done to the transmissions to make them handle that power output reliably.

But if you look at the C3, 5R55E....etc, these transmissions simply can't be "upgraded" in the same way, ie, swap a couple of parts and Bob's your uncle, it can handle 900HP sort of deal.

There are many transmissions that are just all around marginal, which IMHO, is significantly different from the rather minor issues the early 4R70W had.

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There's no doubt about that. I think Mazda has a worse record than Ford for screwing up ATXs. They're so bad, they even screwed up good ATXs that they bought from other companies.

However, the reason why Ford always gets the honorable mention when it comes to bad ATXs is because of experience. It's one thing to read about how bad a certain marque's trannies are, and quite a different thing to know it firsthand.

If it's worth anything, I think Ford had the greatest turnaround where this matter is concerned. Semi-synthetic fluid, giant air/fluid tranny coolers, large capacity systems, combining forces with GM for the new 6SP auto, in-depth revisions of bad components, etc. None of our current vehicles have any tranny issues, and we really like Ford vehicles overall despite all of those nasty transmissions and bad diesel engines they sold us. Warranty service was never an issue. They knew what they did, and they were never shy about fixing it, so whatever.


No, not whatever, I'm glad you gave me your reason for why you were so critical here, and I can relate to it. I know Ford's issues better than I know those of any other brand. But as I said, it has been almost 100% RWD (and 4WD) stuff for the last bazillion years in my family, so we haven't had the same transmission issues.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Indeed, but you must remember that Ford launched the 4R70W on the Lincoln Mark VII, behind what would later become the Cobra V8. Not a good idea.

But if you care to know, my whole feeling on the situation is, for example, that I would have rather had my mark VIIIs with the 4R70W than the Eldorado with its leaky split crankcase design and FWD, Lexus SC430 with its shat interior and lack of an onboard driver computer, or any of the other personal luxury cars that cost way too much money and didn't even have the groundbreaking HID technology.

I did end up getting an SL600 the same year I bought my last (because it was discontinued) Mark VIII, and it was definitely V12 [censored], but it was kind of a different type of car being a true 2 seat roadster. For the record, I would have never bought a CL600, which was the Mark's equivalent (2 door luxury sport hardtop).

The package was irresistible once one realized that it was packing an all aluminum DOHC V8 cast by the same people who make Ferrari blocks, and essentially the same engine as sitting in the Cobras.

The real Ford idiocy is that they cancelled the car and never made a replacement.

They must be smoking Charlie Sheen's crack is they think a former LM8 owner like myself is going to be tempted by an EcoBoost MKS.

The new Ford FWD stuff isn't all bad though. We have 2 Fusion Hybrids in the family and they are horribly likable. I want to hate them so bad for being weak FWD hybrids, but those things just grow on you so bad. Engineering is fantastic too. Really stupefying.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Indeed, but you must remember that Ford launched the 4R70W on the Lincoln Mark VII, behind what would later become the Cobra V8. Not a good idea.

But if you care to know, my whole feeling on the situation is, for example, that I would have rather had my mark VIIIs with the 4R70W than the Eldorado with its leaky split crankcase design and FWD, Lexus SC430 with its shat interior and lack of an onboard driver computer, or any of the other personal luxury cars that cost way too much money and didn't even have the groundbreaking HID technology.

I did end up getting an SL600 the same year I bought my last (because it was discontinued) Mark VIII, and it was definitely V12 [censored], but it was kind of a different type of car being a true 2 seat roadster. For the record, I would have never bought a CL600, which was the Mark's equivalent (2 door luxury sport hardtop).

The package was irresistible once one realized that it was packing an all aluminum DOHC V8 cast by the same people who make Ferrari blocks, and essentially the same engine as sitting in the Cobras.

The real Ford idiocy is that they cancelled the car and never made a replacement.

They must be smoking Charlie Sheen's crack is they think a former LM8 owner like myself is going to be tempted by an EcoBoost MKS.

The new Ford FWD stuff isn't all bad though. We have 2 Fusion Hybrids in the family and they are horribly likable. I want to hate them so bad for being weak FWD hybrids, but those things just grow on you so bad. Engineering is fantastic too. Really stupefying.

 

[CBR.worm]

We had an early Probe with a CD4E - I would add that to the list of bad FWD ford trannies. Also whatever was in our '87 V6 Aerostar - horrible tranny. Multiple replacements under warranty, a few more before the engine let go at just over 100K, apparently due to head gaskets put in upside down or backwards at the factory causing spot overheating?

Even though it was almost 20 years ago I can't get over it.

 

[69GTX]

Speaking of Ford FWD "A" style transmissions. I've been driving them daily since 2001 (1997 and 2002 models) with over 300,000 trouble-free miles so far.