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#1019471 - 10/29/07 05:02 AM Were going back to Regular Diesel at work
Rob Taggs Offline


Registered: 09/08/04
Posts: 807
Loc: Lansing , Kansas
Got the word today that KDOT, the agency I work for is going back to regular old diesel from the biodiesel blend. Was told that the blend we are using only has a shelf life of 30 days and after that acids start to form in the fuel. As proof I was told that equipment that has been sitting for a length of time are having fuel related issues with the biodiesel. Mainly fuel delivery systems are failing.

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#1019472 - 10/29/07 01:37 PM Re: Were going back to Regular Diesel at work [Re: Rob Taggs]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 29865
Loc: Oz
BD is biodegradable, which is one of it's advantages.

Normal diesel is dosed up with stuff to aid shelf life (mainly bugs and water).

Is the BD just "as refined", or additised ?

Might be some (or a little, or none) difference.
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#1019473 - 11/02/07 05:47 AM Re: Were going back to Regular Diesel at work [Re: Rob Taggs]
moribundman Offline


Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 23591
Quote:

Mainly fuel delivery systems are failing.




Heard something about biofuel eating rubber components unless they were made from FKM (fluoro rubber) like Viton.

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#1019474 - 11/02/07 06:51 AM Re: Were going back to Regular Diesel at work [Re: moribundman]
salesrep Offline


Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 3369
Loc: lllinois
Still a lot of variables with bio. Winter will be here as well.
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#1025422 - 11/09/07 08:05 AM Re: Were going back to Regular Diesel at work [Re: Rob Taggs]
doitmyself Offline


Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 5081
Loc: MI
Ha! The problem is that you live in Lansing. We too (Lansing, Michigan) had variable results last winter with bio-fuel. Some companies had huge winter problems (trash haulers) while the guy down the street had none.

I've read that problems with the bio component, ultra low sulfer chemistry, and correct additive package are to blame.

Storing bio in an old gunked up regular diesel tank also loosens all the crud up...change them filters often.
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#1042997 - 12/09/07 09:23 AM Re: Were going back to Regular Diesel at work [Re: doitmyself]
XPR Offline


Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 569
Loc: USA
Use a diesel cold flow improver
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#1043917 - 12/10/07 06:22 PM Re: Were going back to Regular Diesel at work [Re: XPR]
salesrep Offline


Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 3369
Loc: lllinois
Use a diesel cold flow improver
This only helps solve the gelling issue not the other issues?
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#2631528 - 05/20/12 12:22 PM Re: Were going back to Regular Diesel at work [Re: doitmyself]
AVB Offline


Registered: 05/20/12
Posts: 789
Loc: Georgia
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Ha! The problem is that you live in Lansing. We too (Lansing, Michigan) had variable results last winter with bio-fuel. Some companies had huge winter problems (trash haulers) while the guy down the street had none.

I've read that problems with the bio component, ultra low sulfer chemistry, and correct additive package are to blame.

Storing bio in an old gunked up regular diesel tank also loosens all the crud up...change them filters often.


I worked at the motor pool on a USMC installation for over 6 years. Biodesel was a mandate for us. I have never seen a fuel tank get gunked up by real diesel fuel. I have seen the build up that results from using biodiesel, we were contantly having to rebuild injector pumps and have tanks cleaned out. The more a truck was used the less problems we would have, but I have know idea where the idea that biodiesel cleans and breaks up old fuel system gunk from diesel. The gunk that biodiesel leaves behind is almost like tar. The only thing I have seen easily remove that stuff is canned carb cleaner. We have had trucks that have never had real diesel run in them have the same problems. So it is not biodiesel cleaning out the regular diesel gunk. It is biodiesel turning into gunk.

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#2636548 - 05/26/12 02:59 AM Re: Were going back to Regular Diesel at work [Re: Rob Taggs]
Gene K Offline


Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 3161
Loc: Decatur AL USA
B5 clogs up the 7 micron fuel filter element in my Davco in 1000 gallons of fuel. B20 in about 400 gallons. Thats despite running it for months. Im not saying all biodiesel will do it but the [censored] we are getting locally leaves much to be desired.

If I change to straight diesel from another supplier the level in the housing wont even change in 3000 gallons.


Edited by Gene K (05/26/12 03:01 AM)
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#2639276 - 05/29/12 12:44 PM Re: Were going back to Regular Diesel at work [Re: AVB]
HerrStig Offline


Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 5677
Loc: Boston, MA
Bureaucrats who never get their hands dirty ALWAYS know things the guys keeping the stuff running don't. Usually what they "know" comes out of a "PC" handbook.


Edited by HerrStig (05/29/12 12:44 PM)

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#2642826 - 06/02/12 04:42 AM Re: Were going back to Regular Diesel at work [Re: Rob Taggs]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 29865
Loc: Oz
Problem is really "biodiesel" "producers" messing up.

It's easy to make the stuff for home consumption. It's harder to make well for home consumption. It's harder still to make the stuff from waste, in good quality for home consumption.

It's stupid to try to step up to try to make money out of "quality" biodiesel, from waste products, from what was a backyard/yardblock operation.

To meet the "standards", you need to use virtually virgin soybean oil in the US, or Canola in Oz, not donut king grease.

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#2642976 - 06/02/12 10:25 AM Re: Were going back to Regular Diesel at work [Re: Rob Taggs]
AVB Offline


Registered: 05/20/12
Posts: 789
Loc: Georgia
What I want to know is if any biodeisel really cleans as well as so many people say, or are they just repeating what they have heard. I only have experience with one supplier and I can tell you the fuel we had was terrible. So is there actually good biodeisel out there? I have had a few people tell me I was wrong that biodeisel was not causing fuel system problems that it cleaned up what real deisel left behind. What I don't know is if these people have any real experience with biodeisel or are they just repeating what they have heard.

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#2643564 - 06/02/12 11:07 PM Re: Were going back to Regular Diesel at work [Re: Rob Taggs]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 29865
Loc: Oz
Biodiesel is an ester, and as such can clean (think auto-rx etc.)

But if made poorly, can carry with it glycerines and other junk that can make a mess.

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#2643703 - 06/03/12 08:07 AM Re: Were going back to Regular Diesel at work [Re: Rob Taggs]
JetStar Offline


Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 1116
Loc: Flatlands of Indiana
The school bus system here suffered some type of algae, or fungus problem that caused them to cancel school. None of the busses would start.
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#2644765 - 06/04/12 01:11 PM Re: Were going back to Regular Diesel at work [Re: JetStar]
HerrStig Offline


Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 5677
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: JetStar
The school bus system here suffered some type of algae, or fungus problem that caused them to cancel school. None of the busses would start.


Wonder who paid for all the fuel system cleanup and flushing?

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