Mobil1 AFE 0w-20---7,500 miles---07 Fit Sport

[ltslimjim]

So, here's the 2nd report from my BIL's Fit.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6674/07fit2.png

Code:
OIL Mobil1 AFE 0w-20

MILES IN USE 7,500

MILES ON UNIT 164,000

SAMPLE TAKEN 03/03/2012



ALUMINUM 3

CHROMIUM 1

IRON 10

COPPER 1

LEAD 0

TIN 0

MOLYBDENUM 59

NICKEL 0

MANGANESE 0

SILVER 0

TITANIUM 0

POTASSIUM 2

BORON 31

SILICON 11

SODIUM 5

CALCIUM 1272

MAGNESIUM 757

PHOSPHORUS 584

ZINC 638

BARIUM 0



SUS VIS 210ºF 50.6

cSt @ 100ºC 7.45

FLASHPOINT ºF 380

FUEL% TR

ANTIFREEZE% 0.0

WATER% 0.0

INSOLUBLES% 0.2

TBN 2.2


Previous thread:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...257#Post2603257

 

[2James1]

TBN is 2.2 at 7500 miles this sample and Blackstone is recommending 14k-15k? Am I missing something?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 2James1
TBN is 2.2 at 7500 miles this sample and Blackstone is recommending 14k-15k? Am I missing something?


They are

 

[Artem]

its obvious that Amsoil did better...

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: 2James1
TBN is 2.2 at 7500 miles this sample and Blackstone is recommending 14k-15k? Am I missing something?


B/S doesn't take into account that a different oil was used last time.

 

[addyguy]

Originally Posted By: Artem
its obvious that Amsoil did better...

+1. But M1 did good for a non-long-drain oil.

 

[dnewton3]

I've seen some Fit UOAs that show high quality dino products can do just about as well under "normal" OCIs. These engines simply wear well. When wear is this low, there really is little ability to differentiate between brands. The typical numbers of individual UOAs are so close to "universal averages" that it's hard to distinguish real performance differences from the "noise" within a standard deviation or two.

Most certainly one cannot say Amsoil is "better" or "worse" than M1 here. One UOA per brand is NOT statistically telling. What we can glean from these UOAs (and others like them) is that the engine wears well, and it apparently has no real preference for lube brand under these conditions.

I'm not saying that Amsoil or M1 did poorly here; they didn't. I'm saying that the Fit engines seem to wear well regardless of what oil brand/base one uses under normal circumstances. (Not unlike dino vs syn UOAs in Dmax engines in normal OCIs).

If OEM OCIs are the order, is it worth the 3x cost to pay for any syn? Why pay for M1 if it's a "non-long-drain oil" (or any syn for that matter)?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Artem
its obvious that the first oil did better...

Fixed it.

It is. And if the first oil was anything but Amsoil, it would be REALLY obvious!

Yes the engine wears well. And yes it's not statistically valid, but I just want to see as many posts in an Amsoil "choice" thread trying to talk the OP into it as try to talk them out of Amsoil. Just on a pure $ basis - how much was the AFE? Not that much different than the ASM. The value is there.

 

[buster]

10k is a more realistic drain interval for AFE.

M1 EP 5w20 would be the comparative oil.

ASM's sulfated ash levels are much higher than M1.

M1 EP and AFE have a SA of .8.

Nice run on both. I'd go no higher than 10k on the AFE and no higher than 15k on the ASM.

Was the ASM starting to thicken?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: buster


ASM's sulfated ash levels are to high to compare to M1.

M1 EP and AFE have a SA of .8.



You mean "too high", right? ASM is around 1 IIRC. I don't see how it makes any difference other than positive in a 2007 Fit. Am I missing something?

 

[buster]

This is the older ASM too. The new stuff has more Moly.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Originally Posted By: Artem
its obvious that Amsoil did better...

+1. But M1 did good for a non-long-drain oil.


Most definitely. 10k sure looks good on the horizon.

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
If OEM OCIs are the order...


The MM (Maintenance Minder) system in the Fit's has been known to run the oil well into 10k+ territory before the maintenance light comes on. I'd be concerned with Dino oil getting the job done SAFELY, time and time again.

Also, the OEM Honda lube of choice is a synth-blend, so running conventional oil in this engine would be a downgrade.

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
is it worth the 3x cost to pay for any syn? Why pay for M1 if it's a "non-long-drain oil" (or any syn for that matter)?


Not sure where you're getting 3x the cost unless comparing Super Tech vs Amsoil @ full retail price with shipping included.

M1, PP, etc, can all be had for $20-25 vs a quality dino like PYB @ $15+/-. With all due respect, that ain't exactly 3x the cost, unless you were referring to Amsoil.

 

[buster]

I am still on the fence with these low sap and low initial tbn oils and long drains.

Regular M1 seems ok for 10k miles in most vehicles.

I haven't seen enough UOA'S of the EP to have an opinion. I trust XOM that it is guaranteed for 15k.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: buster
I am still on the fence with these low sap and low initial tbn oils and long drains.

Regular M1 seems ok for 10k miles in most vehicles.

I haven't seen enough UOA'S of the EP to have an opinion. I trust XOM that it is guaranteed for up to 15k.


Fixed it for ya.

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: Artem

The MM (Maintenance Minder) system in the Fit's has been known to run the oil well into 10k+ territory before the maintenance light comes on. I'd be concerned with Dino oil getting the job done SAFELY, time and time again.

Also, the OEM Honda lube of choice is a synth-blend, so running conventional oil in this engine would be a downgrade.

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
is it worth the 3x cost to pay for any syn? Why pay for M1 if it's a "non-long-drain oil" (or any syn for that matter)?


Not sure where you're getting 3x the cost unless comparing Super Tech vs Amsoil @ full retail price with shipping included.

M1, PP, etc, can all be had for $20-25 vs a quality dino like PYB @ $15+/-. With all due respect, that ain't exactly 3x the cost, unless you were referring to Amsoil.


I guess where I'm going with this is the exact same place I end up with most topics; people don't NEED synthetics - they WANT them.


I will admit I'm not familiar with the current Honda OEM oil spec. But I susepct there is more than one dino oil out there that meet the spec. It's very similar to Ford's 5w-20 and 5w-30 specs; the MC oils are semi-syn, but there are many quality dino oils that meet the specs and are licensed by Ford. So, when I can get a dino oil for $2/qrt on sale, and I might also be able to get a syn on sale with rebate, the cost factor is typically around 3x. (Might be 2.5x, 3.3x, 2.7x, etc. The 3x is an average). Even if it's 2.0x the cost, where is the advantage to paying twice the money, for exactly the same result? Would you pay $4 for a McBurger when you could get the same result for $2 down the street? Would you pay $8/gallon for gasoline when you can buy it for $4/gallon across the street?

My Fusion has a "dumb" OLM; based on miles only. My OEM OCI is 7.5k miles and I'll honor it while under warranty. But my UOAs show that decent brand name dino oils can run 10k miles. The wear metals are low, the TBN retention is good, the contaminants are low. Once my warranty is gone, I can easily see 10k mile OCIs on quality dino oil.


As for this thread; the vehicle is a 2007 Fit. I suspect that warranty is not of concern any longer (or at lease will be depleted soon). Therefore, "licensed" products are not a necessity.

I have seen several Fit vehicles use dino oils for 7.5k -10k miles, and have stellar low wear and good TBN retention in UOA data. If the "active" OLM says longer is warranted, I would think that is still within the capability of dino oils.

OEM OCIs are not predicated on any particular base stock of oil; they are predicated on using a properly qualified oil. Many decent dino oils meet the major OEM oil lube specs.

What I am pointing out is that in this thread, 7.5k miles could easily be covered by dino oil. For less money. With the same results. And that there is no ability to fairly say the M1 did any better or worse than the Amsoil.

 

[buster]

I don’t expect M1 AFE to be as long drain capable as ASM. Two good oils with different formulations for different needs. AFE is more fuel efficient (although measuring it may be tough). ASM has a starting Tbn of 12.8. AFE 8.8.

 

[buster]

164,000-155,000 =9,000. Was there an oil used in between?

Pablo, M1 EP in a 5qt jug. $28?? Amsoil can't match that.

And the EP is a licensed product meeting SN/GF-5 and dexos. M1 wins. Pablozoil loses. LOL.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Originally Posted By: Artem
its obvious that Amsoil did better...

+1. But M1 did good for a non-long-drain oil.


What's long drain? M1 has a 10K warranty on regular M1 or the life of the OLM.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: buster
164,000-155,000 =9,000. Was there an oil used in between?

Pablo, M1 EP in a 5qt jug. $28?? Amsoil can't match that.

And the EP is a licensed product meeting SN/GF-5 and dexos. M1 wins. Pablozoil loses. LOL.

 

[Gene K]

I vote for Pennzoil Yellow Bottle 5W20 (8.8 TBN) as the most cost efficient for mile per dollar.