what is the very best anti freeze?
the best antifreeze
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I don't think I have seen a real debate on coolants. Most people (other then the issue of long drain dexcool vs the green stuff)seem to think they are all the same. In all of my cars I just let the mechanic that changes the coolant use whatever they use. I top off with the Advance Auto brand or Prestone and I use Tap water. Have never had a radiator issue or coolant issue to date. Change every 2-3 years.
IMO the brand name seems to make no difference in this category of maintenance.
[ January 30, 2003, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Spector ]
IMO the brand name seems to make no difference in this category of maintenance.
[ January 30, 2003, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Spector ]
Big difference between orange Dex-cool, pink Toyota, and some other colored antifreezes. I've heard of problems with Deathcool due to allowing oxygen contact or some such thing, but no problems caused by the other antifreezes, as long as they're change before their corrosion inhibitors are depleted.
Ken
The Ford 3.8's are notorious for blowing head gaskets no matter what coolant you use. That is just a weak spot they have had for a long time. The GM 3800 which is actually a Buick designed engine based on a Buick V8 of the early 60's is nearly bulletproof and has lasted a long time under severe conditions.
Jason
Jason
Back on topic- GM has admitted having some problems in some applications with the Dex-cool (orange) anti-freeze. Generally, it becomes a problem if you don't monitor the level of anti-freeze and it drops, causing major havic in the engine.
Me, I use the regular old green stuff with tap water. No radiator issues to speak of. I change about every two to three years. I've used Prestone, Zerex, Sierra, and Texaco antifreeze in the past and have not noticed any differences.
I've heard that GM was having problems with DexCool in the 4.3 L motors. I also heard something about the 3.8L in my GP. Everything I've heard was just rumors though. I will have my Dex Cool flushed and replaced this spring as it just turned five years old.
I concur
To the person who said the General Motors 3.8 is junk.
Not to call names but your comment reaks of fool.
The GM 3.8, 3800 series has been rated as one of the finest engines ever built globally. It is incredibly reliable, stout and the low end torque is formidable from full size sedans, V6 F-Bodies, and the track queen Turbocharged Buick Grand Nationals. Furthermore to add insult to injury the engine is a simple pushrod design and not some exotic 24V DOHC configuration.
The Buick 3.8 dating back to the early 70's is an example that good things can be improved over time.
The Ford 3.8 is an all together different example.
To the owner of the Grand Prix 3800...I am sorry to hear that situation happened to you.
To the person who said the General Motors 3.8 is junk.
Not to call names but your comment reaks of fool.
The GM 3.8, 3800 series has been rated as one of the finest engines ever built globally. It is incredibly reliable, stout and the low end torque is formidable from full size sedans, V6 F-Bodies, and the track queen Turbocharged Buick Grand Nationals. Furthermore to add insult to injury the engine is a simple pushrod design and not some exotic 24V DOHC configuration.
The Buick 3.8 dating back to the early 70's is an example that good things can be improved over time.
The Ford 3.8 is an all together different example.
To the owner of the Grand Prix 3800...I am sorry to hear that situation happened to you.
This thread struck a nerve with me. I just had a 1998 Pontiac with a 3.8 series II engine lock up on me. When I took it in for repairs they said the head gasket had failed and antifreeze had filled up the cylinders. ( I was not the only car in the shop for this type of repair) The Mechanics are blaming these head gasket failures on the pink or orange antifreeze. They feel this antifreeze is eating away at the gaskets. They have seen this on other makes of vehicles also. Toyota, Ford etc. Does anyone else agree with this?
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I use Glysantin coolant in my three vehicles. I use the red G-30 in my Volkswagen diesel and my John Deere lawn mower and the Glysantin G-48 in my BMW car and Kawasaki motorcycle. The differences between the two is:
G-30 is free of all silicates, borates, nitrates, nitrites, amines, and phosphates. It has < 10 ppm of silicon and offers a 5 year service life.
G-48 is low silicate, low pH, free of phosphorous, and has < 250 ppm of silicon. It has a service life of 2-3 years.
Both of these coolants are used with de-ionized water to prevent erosion due to chemical attraction associated with the different metals in the system.
Corrosion and wear in the cooling system in simply non-existent with these products. Although they cost $11.50 per gallon for each type they are well worth it to me.
G-30 is free of all silicates, borates, nitrates, nitrites, amines, and phosphates. It has < 10 ppm of silicon and offers a 5 year service life.
G-48 is low silicate, low pH, free of phosphorous, and has < 250 ppm of silicon. It has a service life of 2-3 years.
Both of these coolants are used with de-ionized water to prevent erosion due to chemical attraction associated with the different metals in the system.
Corrosion and wear in the cooling system in simply non-existent with these products. Although they cost $11.50 per gallon for each type they are well worth it to me.
no. if this type of antifreeze was eating head gaskets you'd see many many more vehicles having the same problem, and there are gazillions of cars now running extended life antifreeze. There is probably some other problem which compounded and caused the head gasket to fail and could be any number of things.
as for the best anifreeze, I've looked into the subject a lot lately because I have a 1989 diesel that runs green coolant and should be changed. As to what the best is depends on the application. With diesels they say low silicate formulas are best and I also have to add supplemental additives for corrosion & cavitation protection of the cylinder liners. The only problem with extended life coolants (pink & orange) is they aren't compatible with the conventional green ones. And I've found out, albeit on the internet, that running extended life coolant in a system that's ran conventional green stuff for years isn't as simple as a good system flush. The green coolant mainly uses silicates and phosphates (which aren't bad necessarily) for corrosion protection and plate the metal in the engine. When you switch to extended life, the OAT additives in it have to wash away the silicate plating on the metal and then permeate to it's job and even then there is still much debate. New extended life coolants I think are very good and are the way to go but only from the beginning on a new motor. The big problem with extended life coolants is they form brown crud and gunk in the system when air is introduced. That's where you hear all the compaints from. The simple solution to that obviously is keep air out of the system by keeping the radiator and coolant resevoir always topped off. It cracks me up when people use this as an argument to put down extended life coolants, to me it's analagous to not keeping the oil level up on the dipstick and seizing your engine as a result
If you have an old motor that runs green stuff it's best I think to keep using green stuff (low silicate if possible) and just do quick changes every 3 years or so. Look into fleetguard anti-freeze, and the new rotella extended life coolant.
DC,
Not exactly. A simple battery is two dissimilar metals in contact with an electrolyte. With the iron in an engine, aluminum in the head and radiator, and different alloys of each, copper in other parts, and all in contact with a liquid, our engines are crude batteries. With electrical currents passing through from all the electrical things that use the engine as the negative conductor, we really have electrolytic action.
It's necessary for the corrosion inhibitors in the coolant to suppress this galvanic action. If the corrosion inhibitors becomes depleted, then the galvanic action can "eat" gaskets, heads, etc. Aluminum can become honeycombed. The coolant doesn't contain the electrical charge, but it does pass it along.
Here's a description of galvanic corrosion and a table of the galvanic potential of different metals. http://www.ccfast.com/ccfcorrosion.html
As you say, flush and replace coolant to renew these corrosion inhibitors.
Ken
Not exactly. A simple battery is two dissimilar metals in contact with an electrolyte. With the iron in an engine, aluminum in the head and radiator, and different alloys of each, copper in other parts, and all in contact with a liquid, our engines are crude batteries. With electrical currents passing through from all the electrical things that use the engine as the negative conductor, we really have electrolytic action.
It's necessary for the corrosion inhibitors in the coolant to suppress this galvanic action. If the corrosion inhibitors becomes depleted, then the galvanic action can "eat" gaskets, heads, etc. Aluminum can become honeycombed. The coolant doesn't contain the electrical charge, but it does pass it along.
Here's a description of galvanic corrosion and a table of the galvanic potential of different metals. http://www.ccfast.com/ccfcorrosion.html
As you say, flush and replace coolant to renew these corrosion inhibitors.
Ken
i concur with ken2.
antifreeze helps stop corrosion from the crude battery effect. i work with liquid cooled computers for a living and using antifreeze stops the corrosion between copper heat cource and aluminum radiator.
antifreeze helps stop corrosion from the crude battery effect. i work with liquid cooled computers for a living and using antifreeze stops the corrosion between copper heat cource and aluminum radiator.
I have heard good things about evans coolant.
I have found out some more information on antifreeze and head gaskets. It appears the OEM's are using cheap gaskets. They are essentially a steel shim with a fiber coating. There is better gaskets out there made by Felpro such as the Blue stripe. The reasons for head gasket failures are, Overheating, Detonation, Electrolysis, Improper Assembly and Defective Components. The one that got me was Electrolysis. The coolant accumlated an electrical charge over time. the antifreeze became electrical charged and became corrosive to Aluminum parts. This electrically charged antifreeze will eat at the gasket until it fails. Lesson learned, Change your antifreeze every 2 years to avoid this. The manuals are wrong saying 5 years or 100,000 miles. Maybe this will help in making a choice in what antifreeze to by.
None of us are as smart as all of us. I want to thank Ken2 and Cryptokid for the education. The signs of when this is starting to happen (Head Gasket failing) your recovery jug will be empty and when you search for a leak you won't be able to find one. I wish I would have sent off a oil sample when I observed the tank empty. Another lesson learned. My new maintenance practice for my car's is to change the antifreeze and thermostat every 2 years. I have voice my concern to GM about their owners manual being wrong and believe it or not they are going to look into it. Thanks once again.
I thought the whole reason for GM using Dexcool was long life?
I have no idea what antifreeze is best. In the past year or so, I've seen so much info about problems w/the red stuff (Dex Cool?) that I've decided to stick with plain old green Prestone, presently in my car along with ~4.5 oz of RMI-25.
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