Originally Posted By: buster
You know a secret and ain't tellin?
You know a secret and ain't tellin?
2012 Honda Accord 2.4li - Which Oil to use?
- Thread starter fastsvo
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Originally Posted By: fastsvo
I had no idea Honda had filled the motor with special break in oil and that waiting until 10% oil life is ok.
I definitely want to keep the original Honda fill as long as possible before it's time for the first OCI.
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Thanks!
I would get that stuff out between 3-4k ALL initial break in is done but the oil is sheared and full of junk. My engine was knocking like a diesel until i changed it and got the wix 57356 on there.
I had no idea Honda had filled the motor with special break in oil and that waiting until 10% oil life is ok.
I definitely want to keep the original Honda fill as long as possible before it's time for the first OCI.
...
Thanks!
I would get that stuff out between 3-4k ALL initial break in is done but the oil is sheared and full of junk. My engine was knocking like a diesel until i changed it and got the wix 57356 on there.
Originally Posted By: buster
haaa nope. I was just surprised it made that much of a difference. I was thinking of using this oil next, but the more I looked at it, it's really a benefit for engines with flat tappets.
Of the 0w/5w-20 I've run motorcraft SS, Mobil super, Mobil AFE, Idemistsu(Subaru Morning Blend) and QS green bottle the past year on various cars and this DEFY semi-syn is GUD AWL. Bet it might be tad thick on a slushbox though. The Honda commuter with the stick has SHORT gearing: almost 4K rpm at 75 in 5th. I think sticks walk the crank around more than the slushers and can use some help.
PS: its not the higher viscosity either, when i changed filters one on the car I added 10w40 M1 racing syn to the 0w-20 idemistsu and it didnt do anything as far as noise or smoothness. A little less deep knocking hot maybe.
haaa nope. I was just surprised it made that much of a difference. I was thinking of using this oil next, but the more I looked at it, it's really a benefit for engines with flat tappets.
Of the 0w/5w-20 I've run motorcraft SS, Mobil super, Mobil AFE, Idemistsu(Subaru Morning Blend) and QS green bottle the past year on various cars and this DEFY semi-syn is GUD AWL. Bet it might be tad thick on a slushbox though. The Honda commuter with the stick has SHORT gearing: almost 4K rpm at 75 in 5th. I think sticks walk the crank around more than the slushers and can use some help.
PS: its not the higher viscosity either, when i changed filters one on the car I added 10w40 M1 racing syn to the 0w-20 idemistsu and it didnt do anything as far as noise or smoothness. A little less deep knocking hot maybe.
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I was on one of the Honda forums recently and many people get well over 200k on the Honda 2.4L using any brand oil. I just spent some money recently getting the valve cover gasket, timing chain o-ring gasket and oil pan gasket all replaced. I was thinking of trying regular Valvoline MaxLife. They claim it has additional friction modifiers. 5w20. I'm interested in seeing the Defy UOA's. Defy LOL.
Originally Posted By: buster
I was on one of the Honda forums recently and many people get well over 200k on the Honda 2.4L using any brand oil. I just spent some money recently getting the valve cover gasket, timing chain o-ring gasket and oil pan gasket all replaced.
Was yours leaking? Knock on wood, I don't have a drop of leaking after about 100k on PP 5w20. The previous 50k was FF, Amsoil and M1.
I was on one of the Honda forums recently and many people get well over 200k on the Honda 2.4L using any brand oil. I just spent some money recently getting the valve cover gasket, timing chain o-ring gasket and oil pan gasket all replaced.
Was yours leaking? Knock on wood, I don't have a drop of leaking after about 100k on PP 5w20. The previous 50k was FF, Amsoil and M1.
My Honda engine does NOT have rollers on the rocker tips so the valve stems get high point loading and some sliding when opening the valves on the stem tips. The cam profile employs roller-followers, though. The prev gen toyota 2azfe (camry 4)motor used a simple "motorcycle style) dohc with the cam(s) sliding over inverted (non-hydraulic) lashed buckets. This could use some help as we lost our cam on our 05 rav 4 2.4L due to inadequate lubrication using GF-4 5w-30 oils. This is what started my BITOG "life" and quest for better lubes. That car did see some really cold starts (-20C) one winter.
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Wow. nice friends. I guess this would be Mobil OEM for Toyota. or is it from our friends North of the border, Petro Canada, ya? Like you said Buster, Honda engines seem to due very well - plus they have adjustable valves unlike the toyota camry engines. Just keep up with the autotrans, I hear. I wish I found a 5M Accord when i was looking. It would be nice to drive a "grown up" car rather than a "radio flyer" with a motorcyclce size engine
Since the engine is bulletproof, I have decide if I should opt for the 10yr/100k Honda care warranty at $850.
Since this is a Honda, I am not sure if it's worth it?
btw, at 5,500 miles should I drain the break in oil before it reaches 10-15% life as indicated on the meter?
Since this is a Honda, I am not sure if it's worth it?
btw, at 5,500 miles should I drain the break in oil before it reaches 10-15% life as indicated on the meter?
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Originally Posted By: fastsvo
Since the engine is bulletproof, I have decide if I should opt for the 10yr/100k Honda care warranty at $850.
Since this is a Honda, I am not sure if it's worth it?
btw, at 5,500 miles should I drain the break in oil before it reaches 10-15% life as indicated on the meter?
I thought we'd already resolved this?
Once again, if you log onto Honda Owner Link (www.ahm-ownerlink.com) you'll find this explanation and advice:
"Your Honda engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated for new engines that have not yet developed their 'natural' wear patterns and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process. This is entirely normal and not a cause of concern.
American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving conditions."
Further: "There is absolutely no benefit in changing your oil more frequently than recommended in your owner's manual. This will only increase your cost of ownership, and create an unnecessary burden upon the environment by increasing the amount of disposed oil."
You also asked whether an additional HondaCare warranty is worth the expense. Obviously, it's worth the additional cost if you have a significant component failure beyond the original warranty period. Only you can decide whether you can shoulder the expense should that occur. However, you don't have to decide this now. A unique aspect of HondaCare warranties is that you can wait and purchase additional warranty coverage at the end of your manufacturer's warranty. You also don't have to buy it from your selling dealer. HondaCare warranties are available at low cost via several reliable online sources.
Finally, IMHO, you ought to follow the recommendations of the Honda Motor Company regarding the maintenance of your automobile.
Since the engine is bulletproof, I have decide if I should opt for the 10yr/100k Honda care warranty at $850.
Since this is a Honda, I am not sure if it's worth it?
btw, at 5,500 miles should I drain the break in oil before it reaches 10-15% life as indicated on the meter?
I thought we'd already resolved this?
Once again, if you log onto Honda Owner Link (www.ahm-ownerlink.com) you'll find this explanation and advice:
"Your Honda engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated for new engines that have not yet developed their 'natural' wear patterns and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process. This is entirely normal and not a cause of concern.
American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving conditions."
Further: "There is absolutely no benefit in changing your oil more frequently than recommended in your owner's manual. This will only increase your cost of ownership, and create an unnecessary burden upon the environment by increasing the amount of disposed oil."
You also asked whether an additional HondaCare warranty is worth the expense. Obviously, it's worth the additional cost if you have a significant component failure beyond the original warranty period. Only you can decide whether you can shoulder the expense should that occur. However, you don't have to decide this now. A unique aspect of HondaCare warranties is that you can wait and purchase additional warranty coverage at the end of your manufacturer's warranty. You also don't have to buy it from your selling dealer. HondaCare warranties are available at low cost via several reliable online sources.
Finally, IMHO, you ought to follow the recommendations of the Honda Motor Company regarding the maintenance of your automobile.
For the 2011 MY, Honda publicly announced new oil control rings and moly-impregnated piston skirts in both 4 and 6 cyl engines. Many VCM V6 owners believe this modification was an attempt to fix excessive oil consumption in some engines. Honda trained the dealers to insist that new owners leave the FF in until 15% on the MM, presumably so the moly on the piston skirts could dissolve and do it's thing. So, for the first time in my life, I did not dump the FF at 1-2,000 miles. I did a UOA out of curiosity. After 6300 miles, the TBN was an OK 2.0 but there was 253ppm of Cu in it. Is that a record for copper on BITOG?! I cannot fathom any circumstance where this much metal in oil is beneficial for a reciprocating engine. Can you?
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Indy,
So are you saying that if you could do it all over again you would change the FF earlier?
How's the engine running now? Any consumption? Smoking?
So are you saying that if you could do it all over again you would change the FF earlier?
How's the engine running now? Any consumption? Smoking?
IndyDriver: This is the language I first quoted here from a 10/15/2010 Honda press release:
"Both the 4- and 6-cylinder engines make use of a new plateau honing technique for the cylinder bores that generates a smoother surface. As a result, the piston rings achieve more consistent contact with the cylinder walls which generates improved ring-to-bore sealing along with reduced overall friction."
"With the 2.4L I-4, the pistons make use of a new low-tension piston ring that reduces operating friction while the 3.5L V-6 uses a redesigned ion-plated piston ring design. In addition, the outer skirts of both the 4- and 6-cylinder pistons now feature a molybdenum coating applied in a unique dot-pattern application. The result is reduced overall friction as the pistons move within the cylinder bores."
Nothing I've read since suggests that the moly coating dissolves or impregnates the cylinder walls as the engines are run in. IMHO, the coating does just what Honda stated: reduces overall friction to achieve enhanced fuel economy. I'd also be very surprised if XOM's "Toyota" motor oil affords any meaningful advantages over COP's 0W-20 weight "Honda" motor oil.
"Both the 4- and 6-cylinder engines make use of a new plateau honing technique for the cylinder bores that generates a smoother surface. As a result, the piston rings achieve more consistent contact with the cylinder walls which generates improved ring-to-bore sealing along with reduced overall friction."
"With the 2.4L I-4, the pistons make use of a new low-tension piston ring that reduces operating friction while the 3.5L V-6 uses a redesigned ion-plated piston ring design. In addition, the outer skirts of both the 4- and 6-cylinder pistons now feature a molybdenum coating applied in a unique dot-pattern application. The result is reduced overall friction as the pistons move within the cylinder bores."
Nothing I've read since suggests that the moly coating dissolves or impregnates the cylinder walls as the engines are run in. IMHO, the coating does just what Honda stated: reduces overall friction to achieve enhanced fuel economy. I'd also be very surprised if XOM's "Toyota" motor oil affords any meaningful advantages over COP's 0W-20 weight "Honda" motor oil.
I think the K-series' pistons have always used a moly-impregnated skirt. What appears to be new recently is some sort of a dot matrix pattern. I'm also curious about the smoother cylinder walls. This may reduce the potential for oil consumption, but I think it's pretty widely accepted that the more aggressive hatching patterns that promote good oil retention on the cylinder walls are beneficial to engine life. I think I'd rather trade some potential oil consumption (within reason) for longer potential engine life.
(That said, neither of our vehicles consume any measurable amount of oil, so it's probably easy for me to say that.)
I'd be inclined to believe Honda, that keeping the break-in oil in the engine for the duration of the maintenance minder's recommended interval is the best way to go about it. If it was best to change it out early, that's a big source of oil change revenue that Honda is missing out on. There may be some manufacturers that recommend it, but I don't believe that any of the majors do. You'd think that if it were beneficial, or even half beneficial, they'd want to cash in on that source of revenue.
(That said, neither of our vehicles consume any measurable amount of oil, so it's probably easy for me to say that.)
I'd be inclined to believe Honda, that keeping the break-in oil in the engine for the duration of the maintenance minder's recommended interval is the best way to go about it. If it was best to change it out early, that's a big source of oil change revenue that Honda is missing out on. There may be some manufacturers that recommend it, but I don't believe that any of the majors do. You'd think that if it were beneficial, or even half beneficial, they'd want to cash in on that source of revenue.
The government as well as "AMERICAN Honda" decided not to waste perfectly good oil, by changing it out early due to break-in metals. It's what everyone is doing because of the "Green movement" and it kinda makes sense.
I personally drained the FF in my 07 Civic EX 1.8L @ 3k. I felt that by then, having been like 6 months of various driving conditions, the engine is FULLY broken in and good to go. I found A LOT of break-in metals in the catch pan during the OC. Glad i got it out. As you may have seen by the UOA reports the engine produces, they are below average, even though i'm doing extended intervals of 10k miles (going 2,000 miles past 0% Oil life, based on the MM (Maintenance Minder) system.
My 07 Civic Si got the FF drained @ 500 miles and replaced with Valvoline Maxlife, which at the time was loaded with moly. That engine also gave me fantastic operation for 4 years and 110,000 miles. I was also racing the car at the track quite often and drove it VERY aggressively on the street. Not a single issue expect minor oil consumption that Honda considers normal for the VTEC engines that are spinning @ 8,000+ RPM.
I'd personally get the FF out by 30-40% OL left. By then (approximately 5k miles) is long enough to have 90% of the break-in complete. It's best to get all that metal outta there! as i don't like the thought of metal shavings rubbing against the bearings, etc, etc.
The main reason to leave the break-in metals in the block long enough is to have the metallic bits act like sand paper and polish the internals of the block, smoothing out any manufacturing imperfections, etc, etc. After 3-5k miles, i personally believe it's pretty much done and anything else will get smoothed out in the next normal oil change interval based on the OLM System. Lets face it, today's engines are build MUCH better then 10 years ago, so the manufacturing process should result in less imperfections within the block.
Just my
P.S. the FF in my 98 Camry V6 was also dumped way early after only 100 miles and replaced with M1. 15 years later and currently sitting @ 220,000 miles, it runs amazing and returns higher then EPA rated gas mileage (even with all the Ethanol in the gas
). What more could you ask for?
I personally drained the FF in my 07 Civic EX 1.8L @ 3k. I felt that by then, having been like 6 months of various driving conditions, the engine is FULLY broken in and good to go. I found A LOT of break-in metals in the catch pan during the OC. Glad i got it out. As you may have seen by the UOA reports the engine produces, they are below average, even though i'm doing extended intervals of 10k miles (going 2,000 miles past 0% Oil life, based on the MM (Maintenance Minder) system.
My 07 Civic Si got the FF drained @ 500 miles and replaced with Valvoline Maxlife, which at the time was loaded with moly. That engine also gave me fantastic operation for 4 years and 110,000 miles. I was also racing the car at the track quite often and drove it VERY aggressively on the street. Not a single issue expect minor oil consumption that Honda considers normal for the VTEC engines that are spinning @ 8,000+ RPM.
I'd personally get the FF out by 30-40% OL left. By then (approximately 5k miles) is long enough to have 90% of the break-in complete. It's best to get all that metal outta there! as i don't like the thought of metal shavings rubbing against the bearings, etc, etc.
The main reason to leave the break-in metals in the block long enough is to have the metallic bits act like sand paper and polish the internals of the block, smoothing out any manufacturing imperfections, etc, etc. After 3-5k miles, i personally believe it's pretty much done and anything else will get smoothed out in the next normal oil change interval based on the OLM System. Lets face it, today's engines are build MUCH better then 10 years ago, so the manufacturing process should result in less imperfections within the block.
Just my
P.S. the FF in my 98 Camry V6 was also dumped way early after only 100 miles and replaced with M1. 15 years later and currently sitting @ 220,000 miles, it runs amazing and returns higher then EPA rated gas mileage (even with all the Ethanol in the gas
Hello Folks,
First posting for me here at Bob Is the Oil Guy. These forums are a such a great resource for us car lovers and I enjoy reading the intelligent and witty posts.
I own a 2011 Honda Accord EX-L with the K24Z3 engine. I have driven nearly 17,000 miles since I bought it during New Years Eve of 2010. I have had a guy change the oil and filter twice on roadtrips to Minnesota at 7073 miles (factory fill) and at 15,268 miles with the Honda Maintenance Minder (MM) reading at 15% for both changes. The first change at 7073 miles used the OEM Honda semi synthetic 0W-20 oil along with the OEM Honda oil filter that the dealership gave to me for free.
For the second change at 15,268 miles, I used Mobil One (M1) 0W-20 along with a M1 oil filter. Believe it or not, but I scored on a case of M1 at an estate sale for $20 back in 2011.
The engine does not leak a drop of oil or burn oil whatsoever. The chrome exhaust tip can be used as a telltale as they will discolor with soot as I have observed on a coworker's 2011 Honda Accord Special Edition sedan with the K24 engine. Then again, my coworker drives his Accord SE quite vigorously while I baby my Accord. He changed his factory fill at 5% MM and has the dealership perform his maintenance.
Also Honda with the MM codes also recommends changing the oil filter with every other oil change. I suppose one could do this, but at the very least, turn the oil filter upside down and let all of the old oil drain out for several hours and then reuse the oil filter until the next oil change.
First posting for me here at Bob Is the Oil Guy. These forums are a such a great resource for us car lovers and I enjoy reading the intelligent and witty posts.
I own a 2011 Honda Accord EX-L with the K24Z3 engine. I have driven nearly 17,000 miles since I bought it during New Years Eve of 2010. I have had a guy change the oil and filter twice on roadtrips to Minnesota at 7073 miles (factory fill) and at 15,268 miles with the Honda Maintenance Minder (MM) reading at 15% for both changes. The first change at 7073 miles used the OEM Honda semi synthetic 0W-20 oil along with the OEM Honda oil filter that the dealership gave to me for free.
For the second change at 15,268 miles, I used Mobil One (M1) 0W-20 along with a M1 oil filter. Believe it or not, but I scored on a case of M1 at an estate sale for $20 back in 2011.
The engine does not leak a drop of oil or burn oil whatsoever. The chrome exhaust tip can be used as a telltale as they will discolor with soot as I have observed on a coworker's 2011 Honda Accord Special Edition sedan with the K24 engine. Then again, my coworker drives his Accord SE quite vigorously while I baby my Accord. He changed his factory fill at 5% MM and has the dealership perform his maintenance.
Also Honda with the MM codes also recommends changing the oil filter with every other oil change. I suppose one could do this, but at the very least, turn the oil filter upside down and let all of the old oil drain out for several hours and then reuse the oil filter until the next oil change.
The filter should be fine up to 15k miles max.
If you're trying to get all thr oil outta the filter, the best way is to stick something into one of the small oil flow holes and push back the anti-drain silicon valve as it holds a lot of oil in the filter media.
I honestly wouldn't bother with it though. If you just unscrew it and let most of it drain out for a few seconds, you would have gotten 80-90% of old oil outta the filter and its good to go.
Make sure the filter you use has a thick gasket on it if you're gonna reuse it. Some of the thinner ones get squashed the first time and end up leaking with the second run. M1 has a nice juicy gasket.
If you're trying to get all thr oil outta the filter, the best way is to stick something into one of the small oil flow holes and push back the anti-drain silicon valve as it holds a lot of oil in the filter media.
I honestly wouldn't bother with it though. If you just unscrew it and let most of it drain out for a few seconds, you would have gotten 80-90% of old oil outta the filter and its good to go.
Make sure the filter you use has a thick gasket on it if you're gonna reuse it. Some of the thinner ones get squashed the first time and end up leaking with the second run. M1 has a nice juicy gasket.
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