Adding to what Tom has said, many have used the oils that you are referring to as junk with great success including long oci regime. Take a peek in the uoa section and you will see. Technology has clearly changed in the twenty years following your experience with your sister's four runner. Just as the grp IV you selected in the early 90s was a better choice than the 10W40 dino that dominated 20 years before, a blend of group III/IV/V basestocks provides a high quality and cost effective lubricant.
List of group 4 synthetic oils?
- Thread starter sammy
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Originally Posted By: sammy
Thus is why I thought asking the question for a list of group 4 oils at a website that should be an oil information only website would easily fill my request. "I don't know" is something you don't hear enough in America. I don't care about anybody's opinions, either list group 4 oils or go away. Currently we have two I gather, Redline and Amsoil.
First off, you're not going to get a reliable list of Group IV oils, for a variety of reasons. Oil companies change formulations all the time and don't divulge formulation, let alone changes in formulation. Also, oils are mixtures. There is no such thing as a pure Group IV oil, unless you go to XOM and buy a pure base stock with no additives. I'm assuming that's not what you want.
With respect to your list of Amsoil and Red Line being Group IV, that's wrong and wrong. The high end Amsoil stuff is predominantly Group IV, but questions linger about their API certified oils. Red Line is predominantly Group V. Royal Purple is predominantly Group IV, with some Group V in their old SL line, their HPS line, and their racing line. Group III is used for solubility - this is common across most Group IV oils. GC is another predominantly Group IV oil, along with M1 0w-40, M1 15w-50, and Mobil Delvac 1, and possibly M1 racing oils.
If you want a list of Group IV synthetics, your only reasonable recourse is to go to Germany and buy your oil, or order it from Germany. Their labelling rules with respect to synthetics are strict in that way. Even buying the corresponding North American product of a German Group IV is no guarantee, since oil companies are under no obligation to provide the same formulation across borders. Heck, SuperTech oil can be different in different states.
Also, Group IV isn't a guarantee of engine longevity. I've run many engines for many millions of miles solely on Group I and Group II oils over very long OCIs. There are also Group IV oils (including some I listed above) that are absolutely inappropriate to use in certain engines and don't meet manufacturers' specifications for various engines, or the appropriate API/ILSAC or ACEA specifications. I wouldn't run RP 5w-20, Group IV or not, in a TDI, particularly for a full OCI. I wouldn't be running M1 15w-50 in something specifying 0w-20, particularly if it were being used just as a daily driver. And, I wouldn't run Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 in, say, a Mitsubishi engine that calls for older CD specifications only.
If you don't care about people's "opinions" and just want a list of Group IV oils, you're totally out of luck. Unless we get the chief chemists of every oil company on here divulging proprietary group content information or you do what Tom stated and run a very expensive test on every oil in the market or you go and buy pure Group IV base stock with no additives, you're going to only get opinions. Mine are based on things like pour point, flash point, NOACK, marketing, and whether or not specifications of an oil are the same in Germany as they are here. None of these provide for an absolutely certain conclusion; they are only indicators.
Any of these can be wrong. Some of the new Group III+ have some very stellar specifications when it comes to PP, FP, and NOACK. Marketing can be wrong - QS has indicated Defy is synthetic, but with a PP of -30, I call bollocks, since even 10w-30 conventionals can beat that.
Take from this thread what you will. No one knows the group content of every oil. Some people know for certain the group content of certain oils, but they're not talking.
Thus is why I thought asking the question for a list of group 4 oils at a website that should be an oil information only website would easily fill my request. "I don't know" is something you don't hear enough in America. I don't care about anybody's opinions, either list group 4 oils or go away. Currently we have two I gather, Redline and Amsoil.
First off, you're not going to get a reliable list of Group IV oils, for a variety of reasons. Oil companies change formulations all the time and don't divulge formulation, let alone changes in formulation. Also, oils are mixtures. There is no such thing as a pure Group IV oil, unless you go to XOM and buy a pure base stock with no additives. I'm assuming that's not what you want.
With respect to your list of Amsoil and Red Line being Group IV, that's wrong and wrong. The high end Amsoil stuff is predominantly Group IV, but questions linger about their API certified oils. Red Line is predominantly Group V. Royal Purple is predominantly Group IV, with some Group V in their old SL line, their HPS line, and their racing line. Group III is used for solubility - this is common across most Group IV oils. GC is another predominantly Group IV oil, along with M1 0w-40, M1 15w-50, and Mobil Delvac 1, and possibly M1 racing oils.
If you want a list of Group IV synthetics, your only reasonable recourse is to go to Germany and buy your oil, or order it from Germany. Their labelling rules with respect to synthetics are strict in that way. Even buying the corresponding North American product of a German Group IV is no guarantee, since oil companies are under no obligation to provide the same formulation across borders. Heck, SuperTech oil can be different in different states.
Also, Group IV isn't a guarantee of engine longevity. I've run many engines for many millions of miles solely on Group I and Group II oils over very long OCIs. There are also Group IV oils (including some I listed above) that are absolutely inappropriate to use in certain engines and don't meet manufacturers' specifications for various engines, or the appropriate API/ILSAC or ACEA specifications. I wouldn't run RP 5w-20, Group IV or not, in a TDI, particularly for a full OCI. I wouldn't be running M1 15w-50 in something specifying 0w-20, particularly if it were being used just as a daily driver. And, I wouldn't run Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 in, say, a Mitsubishi engine that calls for older CD specifications only.
If you don't care about people's "opinions" and just want a list of Group IV oils, you're totally out of luck. Unless we get the chief chemists of every oil company on here divulging proprietary group content information or you do what Tom stated and run a very expensive test on every oil in the market or you go and buy pure Group IV base stock with no additives, you're going to only get opinions. Mine are based on things like pour point, flash point, NOACK, marketing, and whether or not specifications of an oil are the same in Germany as they are here. None of these provide for an absolutely certain conclusion; they are only indicators.
Any of these can be wrong. Some of the new Group III+ have some very stellar specifications when it comes to PP, FP, and NOACK. Marketing can be wrong - QS has indicated Defy is synthetic, but with a PP of -30, I call bollocks, since even 10w-30 conventionals can beat that.
Take from this thread what you will. No one knows the group content of every oil. Some people know for certain the group content of certain oils, but they're not talking.
Originally Posted By: sammy
You know I read my owners manual and they didn't have a list of true group 4 synthetic oils either.
And rightfully so because it just doesn't matter. Particular specs than an oil meets are more important than what it's made of.
Quote:
I guess nobody does, not even the smart people here at Bobistheoilguy's.
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It has nothing to do with being smart. What you're asking for is considered proprietary information. Releasing it would be a serious violation of NDAs and confidentiality clauses.
You know I read my owners manual and they didn't have a list of true group 4 synthetic oils either.
And rightfully so because it just doesn't matter. Particular specs than an oil meets are more important than what it's made of.
Quote:
I guess nobody does, not even the smart people here at Bobistheoilguy's.
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It has nothing to do with being smart. What you're asking for is considered proprietary information. Releasing it would be a serious violation of NDAs and confidentiality clauses.
There is a thread, on the front page where this same discussion is going on where it is speculated which oils are rumored/thought to be predominantly certain groups. I'm surprised you didn't see it. I'd link it but I don't know how on this tablet I'm currently borrowing from my daughter. I think the title is something like: group iii, iv & v oils. Or something like that. As most here have already said we don't know for absolute sure but we can make educated guesses. Some from emails from guys like Dave at Red Line, some from marketing, or data sheets & msds.
I've seen it said in this thread that in all cases a predominantly grp 3 oil will protect just as well as a predominantly grp iv or v basestock oil. If we say that in all 3 cases the oil is an overall well balanced & well put together oil, I disagree. In most cases maybe, but there are exceptions, or at least 1. In a Direct Injection Turbo for example, which volitization plays a key role in intake valve deposits & where some of the inherent properties of esters, like ability to cope w/ heat are better at dealing w/ the extreme heat put out by super hot turbo's. In the case of the former I have personally seen the difference myself (granted via pics) quite recently, and it was markedly noteworthy. It was repeated twice back to back, and the two oils were very well known and popular and extremely well respected worldwide. It was just a case where the properties of a predominantly grp 5 oil (super low NOACK w very little vaporization) showed its benefits in a DI platform where fueln't get the chance to clean the intake valves.
I think most of us already know this but there are certain platforms where predominantly grp iv or v oils can show their merit. I sometimes just notice here in our quest to get the point across that predominantly grp iii+ or lower oils are every bit as good or better, in most cases, some over-sweeping generalizations get made that fail to leave room for the few cases there are where it may not be the case. I see that happening in here.
Anyhow, OP, look for that thread I mentioned on the front page. I'll post in it to bring it up. In it you will see which oils are speculated to be mostly grp iv, v.
I've seen it said in this thread that in all cases a predominantly grp 3 oil will protect just as well as a predominantly grp iv or v basestock oil. If we say that in all 3 cases the oil is an overall well balanced & well put together oil, I disagree. In most cases maybe, but there are exceptions, or at least 1. In a Direct Injection Turbo for example, which volitization plays a key role in intake valve deposits & where some of the inherent properties of esters, like ability to cope w/ heat are better at dealing w/ the extreme heat put out by super hot turbo's. In the case of the former I have personally seen the difference myself (granted via pics) quite recently, and it was markedly noteworthy. It was repeated twice back to back, and the two oils were very well known and popular and extremely well respected worldwide. It was just a case where the properties of a predominantly grp 5 oil (super low NOACK w very little vaporization) showed its benefits in a DI platform where fueln't get the chance to clean the intake valves.
I think most of us already know this but there are certain platforms where predominantly grp iv or v oils can show their merit. I sometimes just notice here in our quest to get the point across that predominantly grp iii+ or lower oils are every bit as good or better, in most cases, some over-sweeping generalizations get made that fail to leave room for the few cases there are where it may not be the case. I see that happening in here.
Anyhow, OP, look for that thread I mentioned on the front page. I'll post in it to bring it up. In it you will see which oils are speculated to be mostly grp iv, v.
Originally Posted By: sammy
7 OMG, that is Fuhunnny. Dave you actually have seven posts trying to convince me to use junk oil and none answering the question in thread. That's funny dude, are you taking some medication that takes away your focus? LOL
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What is the junk oils you speak of? Or do you not know what you are talking about? I believe that I have more knowledge and experience on the matter engine lubrication than you, also if you want a pure group IV oil, I can talk to a friend of mine in SoCal that can obtain some for you. But I doubt that your engine will make it another 20K though. There is are various reasons why a 100% group IV PCMO just does not meet the performance requirements to properly protect a engine.
The funny part of your post is that you stated the a "group IV" synthetic oil is superior because it did not change to a darker color as fast as a "conventional". This is something a quick lube mechanic will tell you to up sell you. Also I do not want any oil to remain clear or clean looking for a entire OCI because that means something just is not working right. You are speaking a of experience that to put it blunt is just flawed. Color of a engine oil after use is not a good indication of how a oil is preforming. If there is coolant leak or another source of contamination such as a serious fuel dilution problem then I would consider the color of used motor oil a symptom of a problem. Also if indeed you want to keep your truck for 20 years there is more important factors to keep in mind in your maintenance schedule than what base stocks your motor oil is using. There is no such thing as a brand name motor oil that will satisfy your warranty requirements that is a "junk" oil. For comparison I do not have a current generation 5.7 HEMI in a 1500 RAM that has anywhere near the mileage that I would suspect a motor will see in 20 years of service. But I do have the maintenance records of 04 RAM 2500 that has seen service in the Calexico/Yuma area driven around for the last 7 years on farm land "dusty", desert "hot/cold" that has seen nothing but brand name conventional 5W-30, 10W-30, and 10W-40 more or less what oil that could be bought on sale and it was change every 5-8 months which is convenient for the owner and his in-laws to change it. 325K miles later guess what the truck runs fine. The point being if you want your vehicle to last there is more important factors to worry about which I have mentioned in my previous response to your question.
Also which of the following is a "group IV synthetic" 5W-20?
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 8.9
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt 49.8
Viscosity Index 160
HTHS Viscosity,@ 150ºC 2.75
Pour Point, ºC -43
Flash Point, ºC 230
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 8.4
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt 47.3
Viscosity Index 150
HTHS Viscosity,@ 150ºC 2.6
Pour Point, ºC -39
Flash Point, ºC 230
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 8.8
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt 50.5
Viscosity Index 153
HTHS Viscosity,@ 150ºC 2.8
Pour Point, ºC -51
Flash Point, ºC 228
7 OMG, that is Fuhunnny. Dave you actually have seven posts trying to convince me to use junk oil and none answering the question in thread. That's funny dude, are you taking some medication that takes away your focus? LOL
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What is the junk oils you speak of? Or do you not know what you are talking about? I believe that I have more knowledge and experience on the matter engine lubrication than you, also if you want a pure group IV oil, I can talk to a friend of mine in SoCal that can obtain some for you. But I doubt that your engine will make it another 20K though. There is are various reasons why a 100% group IV PCMO just does not meet the performance requirements to properly protect a engine.
The funny part of your post is that you stated the a "group IV" synthetic oil is superior because it did not change to a darker color as fast as a "conventional". This is something a quick lube mechanic will tell you to up sell you. Also I do not want any oil to remain clear or clean looking for a entire OCI because that means something just is not working right. You are speaking a of experience that to put it blunt is just flawed. Color of a engine oil after use is not a good indication of how a oil is preforming. If there is coolant leak or another source of contamination such as a serious fuel dilution problem then I would consider the color of used motor oil a symptom of a problem. Also if indeed you want to keep your truck for 20 years there is more important factors to keep in mind in your maintenance schedule than what base stocks your motor oil is using. There is no such thing as a brand name motor oil that will satisfy your warranty requirements that is a "junk" oil. For comparison I do not have a current generation 5.7 HEMI in a 1500 RAM that has anywhere near the mileage that I would suspect a motor will see in 20 years of service. But I do have the maintenance records of 04 RAM 2500 that has seen service in the Calexico/Yuma area driven around for the last 7 years on farm land "dusty", desert "hot/cold" that has seen nothing but brand name conventional 5W-30, 10W-30, and 10W-40 more or less what oil that could be bought on sale and it was change every 5-8 months which is convenient for the owner and his in-laws to change it. 325K miles later guess what the truck runs fine. The point being if you want your vehicle to last there is more important factors to worry about which I have mentioned in my previous response to your question.
Also which of the following is a "group IV synthetic" 5W-20?
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 8.9
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt 49.8
Viscosity Index 160
HTHS Viscosity,@ 150ºC 2.75
Pour Point, ºC -43
Flash Point, ºC 230
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 8.4
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt 47.3
Viscosity Index 150
HTHS Viscosity,@ 150ºC 2.6
Pour Point, ºC -39
Flash Point, ºC 230
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt 8.8
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt 50.5
Viscosity Index 153
HTHS Viscosity,@ 150ºC 2.8
Pour Point, ºC -51
Flash Point, ºC 228
Originally Posted By: sammy
Another post and no mention of group 4 oils. I'm gonna keep track just for fun.
The trolls are out in full force this weekend, must be the super moon or something.
Read Tom NJ's and Garak's posts just above here, then continue re-reading them until your urge to again post something idiotic starts to wane.
Another post and no mention of group 4 oils. I'm gonna keep track just for fun.
The trolls are out in full force this weekend, must be the super moon or something.
Read Tom NJ's and Garak's posts just above here, then continue re-reading them until your urge to again post something idiotic starts to wane.
Originally Posted By: jca
2012 Focus SEL - MC 5w20, MC OEM
2007 BMW 750i - M1 0w40, Mann HU 823x
2003 F150 5.4L - M1 EP 5w20, FL-820S
1999 Mustang 4.6L - GTX 5w30, Pure One
You're using oils from all different kinds of groups. Will the engines without Group IV oils survive? I think everything except the BMW and the F-150 must be doomed.
2012 Focus SEL - MC 5w20, MC OEM
2007 BMW 750i - M1 0w40, Mann HU 823x
2003 F150 5.4L - M1 EP 5w20, FL-820S
1999 Mustang 4.6L - GTX 5w30, Pure One
You're using oils from all different kinds of groups. Will the engines without Group IV oils survive? I think everything except the BMW and the F-150 must be doomed.
Did you see the other thread I mentioned sammy? I can't copy/paste on this tablet or I'd just link it or paste the info here. Anyone know how to copy/paste on an Android tablet by Asus? Heh.
Also I think this thread is dangerously close to being uncivil as I'm starting to see personal attacks. Just b/c the OP may not be as up to oil as the rest of you there's no need to say his posts are "idiotic" & that he should refrain from posting again. That's out of bounds imo & BitoG's maturity has always been above that & is held to a higher standard.
Please see the other thread sammy. It is speculated there which oils have a majority of which groups. It's far from factual however. I hope that helps.
Also I think this thread is dangerously close to being uncivil as I'm starting to see personal attacks. Just b/c the OP may not be as up to oil as the rest of you there's no need to say his posts are "idiotic" & that he should refrain from posting again. That's out of bounds imo & BitoG's maturity has always been above that & is held to a higher standard.
Please see the other thread sammy. It is speculated there which oils have a majority of which groups. It's far from factual however. I hope that helps.
N/m I figured it out. From there...
All of them use a mixture of differing groups, as each group provide certain elements they do well. But usually have a predominant use of one group or another. I can say what is THOUGHT to be the case on a few. Mind you, only they truly know for sure but here's what many think is the case...
AMSOIL
XL & OE: Majority Grp 3
Others: Majority Grp 4
Dominator: Majority Grp 5
Red Line: Majority Grp 5
Royal Purple: Majority Grp 4
XPR: Majority Grp 5
Motul 300v: Majority Grp 5
X-lite: Majority Grp 4
Valvoline VR-1: Majority Grp 4 (?) [not sure here]
M1 EP: Majority Grp 4 (?) [not sure here]
M1 Racing 0w30 & 50: Majority Grp 5
15w50 Racing & 0w40 Euro: Majority Grp 4
M1 0w20/30 AFE: Majority Grp 4 (not sure here)
Delvac 1, D1 ESP: Majority Grp 4
German Castrol: Majority Grp 4
Toyota 0w20: Majority Grp 4
...remember, in most cases this is just all speculation. Though I think Red Line, XPR, Dominator & 300v pretty much outright say it. If you read M1's site they hint at it with their wording such as "supreme", "most advanced" base oils, and other terms like that.
Feel free to correct any of the above or add to it. I'm just listing what I've picked up here that has been speculated by others so it's nothing even remotely concrete in the least. I think I've added enough qualifiers above to get the point across that nothing is certain.
All of them use a mixture of differing groups, as each group provide certain elements they do well. But usually have a predominant use of one group or another. I can say what is THOUGHT to be the case on a few. Mind you, only they truly know for sure but here's what many think is the case...
AMSOIL
XL & OE: Majority Grp 3
Others: Majority Grp 4
Dominator: Majority Grp 5
Red Line: Majority Grp 5
Royal Purple: Majority Grp 4
XPR: Majority Grp 5
Motul 300v: Majority Grp 5
X-lite: Majority Grp 4
Valvoline VR-1: Majority Grp 4 (?) [not sure here]
M1 EP: Majority Grp 4 (?) [not sure here]
M1 Racing 0w30 & 50: Majority Grp 5
15w50 Racing & 0w40 Euro: Majority Grp 4
M1 0w20/30 AFE: Majority Grp 4 (not sure here)
Delvac 1, D1 ESP: Majority Grp 4
German Castrol: Majority Grp 4
Toyota 0w20: Majority Grp 4
...remember, in most cases this is just all speculation. Though I think Red Line, XPR, Dominator & 300v pretty much outright say it. If you read M1's site they hint at it with their wording such as "supreme", "most advanced" base oils, and other terms like that.
Feel free to correct any of the above or add to it. I'm just listing what I've picked up here that has been speculated by others so it's nothing even remotely concrete in the least. I think I've added enough qualifiers above to get the point across that nothing is certain.
Thanks Shpansker, I don't really mind the other people's comments, they have no clue about me or how much time I have spent under the hood and around cars. I may not be an oil expert, but I have seen the benefits from using synthetic oil over and over, I don't need to rehash this fact and nobody will convince me of something different. I'll check out the other thread, thanks man appreciated.
Oh, thanks for that list dude, that is great!
No problem.
Wiki always has the best info on the planet, here's what they say on benefits from using synthetics. Just as Wiki states I too have seen PROOF that almost all of these are true.
Advantages Advantages
The technical advantages of synthetic motor oils include:
Measurably better low- and high-temperature viscosity performance at service temperature extremes
Better chemical & shear stability
Decreased evaporative loss
Resistance to oxidation, thermal breakdown, and oil sludge problems
Extended drain intervals with the environmental benefit of less oil waste.
Improved fuel economy in certain engine configurations.
Better lubrication during extreme cold weather starts
Longer engine life
Superior protection against "ash" and other deposit formation in engine hot spots (in particular in turbochargers and superchargers) for less oil burnoff and reduced chances of damaging oil passageway clogging.
Increased horsepower and torque due to less initial drag on engine
Advantages Advantages
The technical advantages of synthetic motor oils include:
Measurably better low- and high-temperature viscosity performance at service temperature extremes
Better chemical & shear stability
Decreased evaporative loss
Resistance to oxidation, thermal breakdown, and oil sludge problems
Extended drain intervals with the environmental benefit of less oil waste.
Improved fuel economy in certain engine configurations.
Better lubrication during extreme cold weather starts
Longer engine life
Superior protection against "ash" and other deposit formation in engine hot spots (in particular in turbochargers and superchargers) for less oil burnoff and reduced chances of damaging oil passageway clogging.
Increased horsepower and torque due to less initial drag on engine
In an engine that isn't a known sludger, doesn't run very high sump temperatures, doesn't have forced induction, doesn't have direct injection, doesn't have modern ACEA or proprietary European manufacturer specifications, and/or doesn't have inordinately long OCIs, none of those "advantages" will every manifest themselves over the life of an engine.
As for Wiki being a great source, remember, anyone can edit it, including market shills, and even me. I could decide to go in and change the wording as I see fit. But, I saw it on the internet, so it must be true.
As for Wiki being a great source, remember, anyone can edit it, including market shills, and even me. I could decide to go in and change the wording as I see fit. But, I saw it on the internet, so it must be true.
Hi,
these debates are always problematic.
In real terms unless a synthetic lubricants is specified for the application, it becomes a cost/benefit excercise
Mostly for the average motorist the costs of using a synthetic outweigh the benefits unless you aim to maximise OCIs
these debates are always problematic.
In real terms unless a synthetic lubricants is specified for the application, it becomes a cost/benefit excercise
Mostly for the average motorist the costs of using a synthetic outweigh the benefits unless you aim to maximise OCIs
I would advocate for the use of synthetics even where they are not specified. With twice the OCI, generally, the higher unit cost of the synthetic oil itself is a wash, at worst, and saves time and/or money in performing the oil change. Fewer filters saves money too. The other big pay back is less oil extracted, less oil used/recycled, and fewer filters used and discarded.
I read someplace recently that motor oil is consumed at an annual clip of 300 million gallons, and I think they were just talking about the US! If everyone using conventional oil switched, we could save 100 million gallons at no cost to the consumer (or maybe even at an economic gain), all while getting even better lubrication and conserving finite resources and reducing pollution. Nice.
I read someplace recently that motor oil is consumed at an annual clip of 300 million gallons, and I think they were just talking about the US! If everyone using conventional oil switched, we could save 100 million gallons at no cost to the consumer (or maybe even at an economic gain), all while getting even better lubrication and conserving finite resources and reducing pollution. Nice.
Just a quick question... With all this Syn grp 1, II, III & so forth. How would a person know how the oil performed over the OCI without a OIL analysis? I maen a person would have to be very good to tell the performance of oil just by looking at it. This thread like so many others make good reading.
"Wiki always has the best info on the planet". You can not argue with a person that believes a statement like that. Do not even try to show him other results or data. It will be dismissed just move on and let the OP be in his "better" world.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
"Wiki always has the best info on the planet". You can not argue with a person that believes a statement like that. Do not even try to show him other results or data. It will be dismissed just move on and let the OP be in his "better" world.
LOL, this cat spent 9 useless posts and when he couldn't convince me that Dino oil is better then synthetic he actually now thinks listening to him is better then Wiki, lol. Thanks, I'm laughing so hard right now and I needed that laugh......
Just when I thought I was done laughing I read it again and I'm laughing all over again, lol....
and again.... Dave your posts are like herpes, they just keep giving. Look in your mailbox, brownie button is coming, well deserved Dave.
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"Wiki always has the best info on the planet". You can not argue with a person that believes a statement like that. Do not even try to show him other results or data. It will be dismissed just move on and let the OP be in his "better" world.
LOL, this cat spent 9 useless posts and when he couldn't convince me that Dino oil is better then synthetic he actually now thinks listening to him is better then Wiki, lol. Thanks, I'm laughing so hard right now and I needed that laugh......
Just when I thought I was done laughing I read it again and I'm laughing all over again, lol....
and again.... Dave your posts are like herpes, they just keep giving. Look in your mailbox, brownie button is coming, well deserved Dave.
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Originally Posted By: Da Game
Just a quick question... With all this Syn grp 1, II, III & so forth. How would a person know how the oil performed over the OCI without a OIL analysis? I maen a person would have to be very good to tell the performance of oil just by looking at it. This thread like so many others make good reading.
Many engines use oil even when they are new. Like some of the 90's Fords, if your vehicles was using oil even when it was brand new off the showroom floor, and you switch to synthetic and all of a sudden it isn't using an measurable oil, you will see a great benefit. That was my experience among others, and that is also what the NOACK tests on synthetic that suggests the same. Synthetics don't evap off as easy and they don't break down as soon.
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Just a quick question... With all this Syn grp 1, II, III & so forth. How would a person know how the oil performed over the OCI without a OIL analysis? I maen a person would have to be very good to tell the performance of oil just by looking at it. This thread like so many others make good reading.
Many engines use oil even when they are new. Like some of the 90's Fords, if your vehicles was using oil even when it was brand new off the showroom floor, and you switch to synthetic and all of a sudden it isn't using an measurable oil, you will see a great benefit. That was my experience among others, and that is also what the NOACK tests on synthetic that suggests the same. Synthetics don't evap off as easy and they don't break down as soon.
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