best brand of gas?

[jason07-1zzfe]

Okay...so if all the gasoline is the same everywhere

and the difference only lies in the additives seems like you could save some money by using the cheapest gas available and putting your own additive in such as neutra or Red Line CFSC.
Around here something like Speedway or Citgo is around $.10 cheaper than BP Amoco. In a 15 gal fillup that will equal $1.50/tank. A 15oz bottle of Red Line SI-1 costs about $4.99 at Pep Boys and treats 100gal. That's $.50/tank. Saving $1.00/tank.
I get a discount with my BP card now so the difference will be less for me and maybe not worth the hassle of adding additives every tank. But otherwise seems like a good option...

 

[satterfi]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Troxell:
Okay...so if all the gasoline is the same everywhere

and the difference only lies in the additives seems like you could save some money by using the cheapest gas available and putting your own additive in such as neutra or Red Line CFSC.
...

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That's what I'm doing with my car. I was using Chevron premium, now I use Chevron regular with Red line CFSC. I have no idea if it's better or worse.

 

[bubba]

hate to throw a wrench into the discussion here, but i am employed by one of the large pipline companys that handles transportation for almost all the oil companys, and they swap product so often it would make you dizzy.mar/ashland, bp/amoco, equilon aka shell, citgo, sun, they pump gas back and forth between each others tankage, like 2 kids swapping a ice cream bar. as iam typing this , iam pumping 15000 bbls of nl from bp to shell. fungible product shipped back and forth all the time. product is product all the same.

 

[blano]

If you live on the east cost or the midwest your fuel(diesel and gas) stinks. The best fuels are found in the pacific states. PADDS 1 &2 have fuel that is lower in quality than Uganda's.

 

[carl97ss]

I always thought that BTU's, specific density , and additive package made a fuel, possibly the "BEST". Am I off on that?

IME..BP in Indiana contains alcohol (with a corresponding reduction of fuel economy-lower BTU's w/ alcohol??)while Amoco does not. I run an autotap scanner quite often. It lets me monitor 30+ engine functions at once on my laptop. It's a little surprising at the amount of...well, let's say that you don't always get 93 octane or the "quality" you expected from that name brand. Not too much of a problem in Indiana, but when I road trip to Florida, I usually find it at least once or twice going down and coming back. It shows up with increased sensitivity to knock when under light load (I have a 11:1 compression engine), the short term fuel trims start to change for a short period of time triggering the long term fuel trims to change (increasing fuel needs). In my car it takes about 11 miles going down the road at 75mph for the changes to start to show up. I will also notice a drop in fuel economy and throttle responce. I do not believe the National Corporate supplier is at fault thou...In my experience Shell & Exxon deliver my lowest knock numbers and fuel economy. IMHO.

 

[tenderloin]

bubba
Junior Member
Member # 439
posted December 31, 2002 09:30 PM
iam pumping 15000 bbls of nl from bp to shell. fungible product shipped back and forth all the time. product is product all the same.

partial repost: While it is true they all fill up at the same terminal, the name brands add their proprietary additives when the tankers are filled up. Yes, independent truckers can carry national brands.

No Joe Gasmart or Shell stations end up having Techron in their gasoline. Likewise, Chevron stations do not end up with gasoline without Techron. The lawsuits would be $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

If anyone knows to the contrary.........let me know..I want to be RICH!!!!!!!!!!! LOL


[ January 01, 2003, 03:09 AM: Message edited by: tenderloin ]

 

[Whimsey]

I have to admit that I get the same mpg with Mobil, Exxon, Shell, but I get 1-2mpg less with Amoco gas. And I have a truck that gets at best 15-16mpg. So that 1-2mpg means alot. I also have to admit that Getty gas is even worse here in NJ. Getty uses ethanol. There is a rumor that the Amoco stations are using BP fuel with ethanol instead of mbte as an oxiginator. This would account for the lower mpg with the Amoco.

Whimsey

 

[Jay]

quote:

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Originally posted by Last_Z:

quote:

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Originally posted by OneQuartLow:
In some areas it might be more difficult to ignore marketing claims, but here I can follow the same tank truck to six different stations (4 different brands) and watch them fill the tanks. I then have a choice of prices, currently 15-17cents/gallon spread from high to low for regular unleaded. One has much better advertisements but it doesn't get me any further down the road.

I don't know if this is true of our one Chevron station. It's on the other side of town, out of the way of my early driving.

David

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I agree with this statement. I saw on TLC not long ago, that just because you go to a Chevron station, doesn't mean you are getting Chevron gas. Oil companies help each other (if you can believe that) by supplying gas to a different brand name.
Rick

ps: in some cases, gas stations re-fill with pipelines instead tanker trucks....making it even easier for them to send a different gas to a given station.

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I think there's some misunderstanding about raw gasoline vs finished gasoline. Raw gasoline is what is put into the tanker truck (usually). Finished gasoline is raw gasoline plus the additive package added by the trucker when the fuel is offloaded at the station. It's the additive package that makes Chevron Chevron and Shell Shell, etc.

 

[blano]

Whats the odds many stations dont add any additive? I bet more often than not.

[ January 02, 2003, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: blano ]

 

[Giles]

Onequart, If the truck was only going to fill up Shell stations, then the additive was probably added at the time the tanker truck was filled.

Is there more than one Shell in your city? How many tanks can one tanker truck fill anyway? I would assume a tanker filled with Shell gasoline would just go from Shell to shell filling up tanks so no need to add the additive at the station.

 

[Ken2]

And, what's the chance that the additives are already in the gasoline, the additives are all the same stuff, and only the trade name is proprietary?

Ken

 

[blano]

I think this whole additive thing is complete BS. I asked a tanker driver at the local amoco today where he picked up his load and if he added any additives. He replied that the fuel was picked up at the marathon/ashland tank farm and that he never adds additives nor do they at the rack.

 

[Giles]

quote:

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Originally posted by blano:
I think this whole additive thing is complete BS. I asked a tanker driver at the local amoco today where he picked up his load and if he added any additives. He replied that the fuel was picked up at the marathon/ashland tank farm and that he never adds additives nor do they at the rack.

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Thanks for the info. I won't buy Amoco if I can help it and just points out why it's important to buy gasoline from companies that have additives designed to clean and burn well.

With as many lawyers out there looking to sue corporations, you can bet if Chevron or Shell didn't add Techron or Formual Shell additives their would be class action lawsuit in no time. You don't think the word would get out there with a whistle blower?

My own experience is I've never had to use fuel injector cleaner in my vehicles using Shell and Chevron gasoline almost exclusively. One vehicle has 100,000 miles an runs great (never failed a smog test), the other 89,000 miles. I've recently added an injector cleaner just as preventative maintainence, but there wasn't any noticeable reason to do it. In fact, I don't think I've even had the fuel filters replaced.

 

[Ken2]

All gasoline is additized by law. (From a Chevron publication):

--quote--
Because of [the] relationship between decreased deposits and decreased emissions, all motor gasoline sold in the United States must contain an additive which provides a minimum level of deposit control performance. This requirement was established by the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990 and became effective in January 1995. A similar requirement has been in effect in California since January 1992. Additive manufacturers are required to obtain EPA certification for their additives. The certification request must include documentation of the additive's effectiveness in specified fuel injector keep-clean and intake valve keep-clean tests and the additive concentration at which this performance is achieved. Certification may be obtained for use nationwide, for use in specific areas of the United States, or for use with particular types of gasoline. Nationwide certification requires using a test gasoline which meets ASTM D 4814, but has a greater tendency to form deposits than the average gasoline.

Gasoline formulators must add a certified deposit control additive to their gasoline at the certification concentration level or higher. Over some range, higher concentrations often provide improved performance; for instance, changing keep-clean performance to clean-up performance. Historically, some gasoline brands have provided much higher deposit control performance than the certification performance required by the EPA. For competitive reasons, they probably will continue to do so.
--end quote--

For more info see http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/motorgas/ch6.shtml note that this link does not promote Chevron products--it's a good primer on all gasolines; other sections have an equally good description of diesel fuel.

Ken

 

[Giles]

quote:

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Originally posted by blano:
Whats the odds many stations dont add any additive? I bet more often than not.

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That would be the off-brand ones I assume. The ones that advertise additives such as Shell, Chevron, 76 etc better be using the additives. One more reason I only use name brands that have an reputation with additives.

 

[OneQuartLow]

quote:

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Jay Said:...Finished gasoline is raw gasoline plus the additive package added by the trucker when the fuel is offloaded at the station. It's the additive package that makes Chevron Chevron and Shell Shell, etc.

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Jay, interesting. How do they add this? I've watched entire fills several times over the years, and never saw any indication more than one substance was involved. Recently at a Shell: Driver attaches big hose from tank valve to ground reservoir. Valves turn, driver waits. At the end he packs up and drives away. Friend and I had been distracted enough from coffee to watch the process somewhat carefully.

Do stations have secret stashes of additive? Years ago I wrote petro jobber accounting software. I don't recall anything but bulk product in the card scans. Perhaps the jobbers that bought our code only trucked finished product? Someting more complex must be going on here.

David

 

[chasgood]

Loading headers at fuel terminals have injectors that adds the additives to the gas as it is being loaded on the tanker. They just push a button and it is added in the proper ratio. The same tanker can haul several brands per day. I fuel planes at a air force base. The truckers bring us jet fuel during the day and run gas to service stations at night with the same tank trailer. I have asked them about the gas is how I know.
The biggest difference between stations other than brand of gas is tank maintance. Do they keep the water out. The other is are they using filters and changing them. Pump filters are like oil filters and have a bypass. Some station owners may never change the filters. They get clogged and just bypass giving you unfiltered gas.
If you see a tanker offloading don't get gas. Wait a hour or more to let any dirt or water settle to the bottom.

 

[Giles]

Transporting Jet Fuel and Gasoline in the same tanker sounds like a way to get cross-contamination. The jet fuel is more like Kerosene isn't it and therefore has completely different combustion characteristics.

Oh well, I suppose the Jet owners should be more concerned than me who always has 4 tires on the road

 

[shoz123]

A fully loaded tanker holds 8000 gallons.

In Illinois 99.9% of the gas state wide is 10% ethanol.

 

[ben walker]

"Transporting Jet Fuel and Gasoline in the same tanker sounds like a way to get cross-contamination."
Does it really matter when they pump diesel and gas through pipelines back to back? Ever wonder why your gas has a yellowish tinge to it and leaves a yellow residue in clear plastic? Diesel fuel contamination.