KIA OEM Filter TSB...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: Gene K
My guess is the filter pictured is some sort of cut rate Chinese Filter thats sold by the gross at well under $1 a filter.


It looks like an E-core, ....

Correct, looks like that to me too. And honestly, between the nitrile combo valve design and open nylon cage, Id not use one of those with the Kia/Hyundai TSB either, or otherwise for that matter. I'd be fairly confident with other aftermarkets though, using the 'classic' design and preferably a silicone adbv, like the oem.

As said, if Kia said you had to use their filter they would have to provide it foc. The link below is about as good as I've seen on summarizing MM Warranty Act.

FTC Consumer Alert Auto Warranties, Routine Maintenance, and Repairs:
 
Originally Posted By: Garak


Agreed. However, I don't see a lot of companies making a big stink that one "has to" use their filters. ..............


This TSB has been debated in a few other threads already. People have to read carefully what it says and not fill in the holes with what they think is says.

KIA/HYUNDAI are saying "Kia does not test or approve any aftermarket filters and only recommends the use of Kia genuine parts.....". This is standard fare for any auto maker.

The TSB is guidance to the dealer techs that in the instance they do have a problem that is aftermarket filter related, the customer is to bear the cost of any warranty claims for such issues. Once again, standard fare of any auto maker.

We all assume risk when going with an aftermarket filter and in the case of warranty being denied by KIA/HYUNDAI, then we have to make claim through the aftermarket filter maker.

This TSB is brings nothing new that is not already standard practice across the industry. No OEM is going test or recommend any NON OEM product, nor should the consumer expect warranty claim to be paid if using the NON OEM product.

The wording of "Recommend" is not a default position of denial of claim of warranty if NON OEM is used.

What I researched in the many aftermarket cataloged part numbers for most KIA/HYUNDAI applications, the aftermarket filters range in Bypass ratings from anywhere of 8 to 18 PSI. This is a wide range and I am of the understanding the KIA's filters are actually rated higher at 18-20 PSI. So you can see that many aftermarket filter maker have not really cataloged a proper filter but have used one "close" and "fits". Only one I would recommend is a Baldwin B7243 if the OEM one can not be had.
 
Originally Posted By: Hootbro

This TSB has been debated in a few other threads already. People have to read carefully what it says and not fill in the holes with what they think is says.


Interesating. I tried searching KIA and nothing came up. Is KIA to short of a word for this Forums search too? Could you lead me to a thread or two?



Originally Posted By: Hootbro
the KIA's filters are actually rated higher at 18-20 PSI. So you can see that many aftermarket filter maker have not really cataloged a proper filter but have used one "close" and "fits". Only one I would recommend is a Baldwin B7243 if the OEM one can not be had.


Could you show me where you found the info on the KIA filter specs please?

Thanks!
 
Originally Posted By: 300maximilien


Interesating. I tried searching KIA and nothing came up. Is KIA to short of a word for this Forums search too? Could you lead me to a thread or two?


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592351

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2595255



Quote:

Could you show me where you found the info on the KIA filter specs please?

Thanks!


I had half a suspicion someone would ask for that info. Right now, I can not readily find it again. I had original found it on a Hyundai industrial equipment website as the same filter by P/N was used on the industrial equipment as on the cars.

With what the TSB has said and some have reported with using some aftermarket filters, the higher bypass rating I had read, seemed to have some validity to it.
 
I can say that the KIA OEM filter seems to be a great filter. The case is nice and thick and it feels well made. I can't wait to cut the one I have on my car open.

I can also say that PureOne and Napa Gold have never given me any trouble. I have a small stash of them, and I will use them again. I think the TSB is really about cheaply made filters.

You can use any filter you want. KIA can not void your warranty just for having an aftermarket filter. If that were the case, then KIA would have to provide them to you for free, as mentioned before by many previous posters. KIA can void your warranty if the filter explodes, or implodes, and destroys your engine. That is true of any car company.

That being said, you can buy a case of KIA filters on ebay for about 50.00. They are a great filter, and I may just do that once my current stash starts to dwindle.

Bottom line, every car company says its best to use their filters. Ford has even created an extensive powerpoint presentation on why Motorcraft is the best and should be used. Why this Kia/Hyundai TSB keeps popping up, is anybody's guess.
 
Hootbro: Long term I will use Kia / Hyundai OEM filters .
Recently I bought a M1 oil & filter deal at AA. So far , the M1 filter seems ok - but how do I really know the specs are in line with the Kia / Hyundai filter ?
 
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
......... the M1 filter seems ok - but how do I really know the specs are in line with the Kia / Hyundai filter ?


I do not have the data spec sheet on the M1 so I do not know what to tell you. Given the history of M1 filters be above average in terms of quality, you can take a leap of faith and assume M1 has spec'd a proper filter and not just one that fits.

Given the examples shown above with the E-Core filter being shown as a bad example, one can surmise that not all filters will be the same regardless of how they cross reference from each other.

As I have mentioned in other threads, I am not advocating that it is wrong to use a non-OEM filter, just that not all non-OEM filters are alike. As with any use of a non-OEM filter, you are by proxy entering into an implied contract with the non-OEM filter maker to make right if something goes wrong. Use of a KIA/HYUNDAI OEM filter makes this a non issue.

Like many things here on BITOG, we over analyze and make things harder than they need to be. I am sure 99.99% of most users of a non-OEM will be fine. KIA/HYUNDAI's issue of the TSB is just to inform the maintenance tech and dealership service departs on which way to proceed forward for the 00.01%.
 
Originally Posted By: bigblumer
Bottom line, every car company says its best to use their filters. Ford has even created an extensive powerpoint presentation on why Motorcraft is the best and should be used. Why this Kia/Hyundai TSB keeps popping up, is anybody's guess.


Apparently KIA has seen some damaged engines due to the use of some aftermarket filters - and probably some of the other symptoms they have listed in the TSB. If it was an ecore as the TSB shows, then it's possible the media blew out (as we have seen photos posted in this forum) and lodged chunks in the motor somewhere that caused extensive damage. So instead of them saying don't use a specific aftermarket filter in the TSB, they just said to use OEM filters and stay away from all aftermarket filters. Probably helps sell more OEM filters too.
 
I've said this in other threads, and I'll hum it again here: why NOT use the OEM filter? If it was $22 and a POS, that would be one thing...but it's apparently a well-made filter and only $6. Sounds like a no-brainer just for the peace of mind.

To the original topic, my interpretation is that Kia are not saying the warranty is immediately cancelled upon installation of an aftermarket filter; they're just confirming that they won't honour the warranty for any damage CAUSED by the failure of an aftermarket part. As Hootbro said, that's pretty much boilerplate wording for ALL car manufacturers...
 
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Like many things here on BITOG, we over analyze and make things harder than they need to be. I am sure 99.99% of most users of a non-OEM will be fine. KIA/HYUNDAI's issue of the TSB is just to inform the maintenance tech and dealership service departs on which way to proceed forward for the 00.01%.


Absolutely. Kia isn't worried about people using Wix, or Hastings, any of the various Purolator lines, Denso, and so forth. They're probably not even worried about Frams. They'd certainly be worried about a non-specified filter (i.e. a cross to a cross which can be problematic) or some of those seriously cheap jobber filters.
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: Gene K
My guess is the filter pictured is some sort of cut rate Chinese Filter thats sold by the gross at well under $1 a filter.


It looks like an E-core, ....

Correct, looks like that to me too. And honestly, between the nitrile combo valve design and open nylon cage, Id not use one of those with the Kia/Hyundai TSB either, or otherwise for that matter. I'd be fairly confident with other aftermarkets though, using the 'classic' design and preferably a silicone adbv, like the oem.

As said, if Kia said you had to use their filter they would have to provide it foc. The link below is about as good as I've seen on summarizing MM Warranty Act.

FTC Consumer Alert Auto Warranties, Routine Maintenance, and Repairs:


I agree, I don't like the E-core design's nylon cage or its drain back valve/bypass combo. I couldn't really tell if the E-core filter in the picture has the combo bypass valve since I usually look for the extra holes in the baseplate which is not visible in the picture.

You bring up a good point that the E-core on applications requiring a bypass has a combo bypass valve and so the bypass would not really be visible in the photo even if it was listed as a cross-reference anyway. That's my point, whether or not E-cores are good or their bypass works well, they purposely used an Ecore so that it would appear to not have a working bypass.

I think it's all an example of trying to sell their oil filter and skirt around MM. They don't come out and say if you don't use their filter your warranty will not be honored, but they put fear tactics that aftermarket filters will likely cause a problem that won't be warrantied and then post up a picture of an Ecore suggesting it doen't even have a bypass. Both of which aren't really true. Ecores have never been known to cause engine failure, blocked off engine mounted bypasses withstanding.

It's not new for automakers to claim aftermarket oil filters can cause problems but the difference is they posted pictures of actual filter failures and not this dog and pony show.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: bigblumer
Bottom line, every car company says its best to use their filters. Ford has even created an extensive powerpoint presentation on why Motorcraft is the best and should be used. Why this Kia/Hyundai TSB keeps popping up, is anybody's guess.


Apparently KIA has seen some damaged engines due to the use of some aftermarket filters - and probably some of the other symptoms they have listed in the TSB. If it was an ecore as the TSB shows, then it's possible the media blew out (as we have seen photos posted in this forum) and lodged chunks in the motor somewhere that caused extensive damage. So instead of them saying don't use a specific aftermarket filter in the TSB, they just said to use OEM filters and stay away from all aftermarket filters. Probably helps sell more OEM filters too.


While maybe KIA had some claims from the use of aftermarket filters, I wouldn't assume that KIA had any claims due to an E-core blowing out. I'm not trying to defend e-cores at all, but this TSB was not convincing of aftermarket oil filter failures. They posted the E-core cutaway to portray an aftermarket filter as not having a bypass and this is just false. If they had an actual failed E-core or any other failed filter they could've and should've posted pics. I think it was GM or maybe Ford that showed an actual filter failure, in that case the ADBV deterioted and clogged oil passages.
 
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: Garak


Agreed. However, I don't see a lot of companies making a big stink that one "has to" use their filters. ..............


This TSB has been debated in a few other threads already. People have to read carefully what it says and not fill in the holes with what they think is says.

KIA/HYUNDAI are saying "Kia does not test or approve any aftermarket filters and only recommends the use of Kia genuine parts.....". This is standard fare for any auto maker.

The TSB is guidance to the dealer techs that in the instance they do have a problem that is aftermarket filter related, the customer is to bear the cost of any warranty claims for such issues. Once again, standard fare of any auto maker.

We all assume risk when going with an aftermarket filter and in the case of warranty being denied by KIA/HYUNDAI, then we have to make claim through the aftermarket filter maker.

This TSB is brings nothing new that is not already standard practice across the industry. No OEM is going test or recommend any NON OEM product, nor should the consumer expect warranty claim to be paid if using the NON OEM product.

The wording of "Recommend" is not a default position of denial of claim of warranty if NON OEM is used.

What I researched in the many aftermarket cataloged part numbers for most KIA/HYUNDAI applications, the aftermarket filters range in Bypass ratings from anywhere of 8 to 18 PSI. This is a wide range and I am of the understanding the KIA's filters are actually rated higher at 18-20 PSI. So you can see that many aftermarket filter maker have not really cataloged a proper filter but have used one "close" and "fits". Only one I would recommend is a Baldwin B7243 if the OEM one can not be had.


I think it is new to use a photo of an E-core and insinuate the filter lacks a bypass. A different style of bypass does not equal the lack of one.

Also, while I agree aftermarket filters do not necessarily have the exact same bypass setting as the OE as long as the bypass is below the OE and not above it then I don't see it causing any real problems. It's mostly academic. A little more may bypass when cold but that in itself would cause no real problems. In reality unless the filter was loaded the lower bypass filter might not even bypass. It is really as much or more meaningless than one filter is 95% efficient vs 97%. More important is the filter's flow restriction or holding capacity which may or may not be as high as OE. But reputable aftermarket filters are suppose to be within acceptable stancards for flow rates, bypass settings and holding capacity. But if you just got to have an OE filters performance for or beter or worse than go ahead. The bottomline is this KIA TSB and especially the pictures of an E-core doesn't seem on the up and up.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx

While maybe KIA had some claims from the use of aftermarket filters, I wouldn't assume that KIA had any claims due to an E-core blowing out. I'm not trying to defend e-cores at all, but this TSB was not convincing of aftermarket oil filter failures. They posted the E-core cutaway to portray an aftermarket filter as not having a bypass and this is just false. If they had an actual failed E-core or any other failed filter they could've and should've posted pics. I think it was GM or maybe Ford that showed an actual filter failure, in that case the ADBV deterioted and clogged oil passages.


KIA is not obliged to convince you of anything. They are doing due diligence in issuing the TSB as information and guidance in case of failure.

While the use of a cutaway E-Core is not the best example to show lack of a bypass, it still does make the point that some filters have hokey designs and/or sub par manufacturing methods.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
While maybe KIA had some claims from the use of aftermarket filters, I wouldn't assume that KIA had any claims due to an E-core blowing out.


I'd venture to say that an ecore filter would have a better chance of causing an engine failure than a non-ecore design filter based on the photos I've seen of ecore media blow-outs. Not good for an engine to injest broken off chunks of filter media into the oiling system.
 
If Kia has a oil pressure problem I would use the largest filter that would fit.
My Honda S2000 takes the same thread(M20 X 1.5) as the Kia and I put a filter on my S2000 that is over twice the size as the stock oil filter for my engine so I won't have low oil pressure caused by the oil filter.
Here are some pic's of three oil filters(Baldwin, Honda and Napa/Wix) for my car.
http://s949.photobucket.com/albums/ad338/rrounds/Oil Filters/
The larger filter will supply more oil than the stock filter with less pressure drop. If you have the room I'd put on the largest filter on that would fit.

ROD
 
Originally Posted By: rrounds
The larger filter will supply more oil than the stock filter with less pressure drop.


Only when the oil pump is in pressure relief mode ... which means when the engine is near or at redline with hot oil. Anytime the oil pump in not in pressure relief mode, then all oil leaving the pump has to go through the filter and engine oiling circuit.
 
Originally Posted By: rrounds
If Kia has a oil pressure problem I would use the largest filter that would fit.
My Honda S2000 takes the same thread(M20 X 1.5) as the Kia and I put a filter on my S2000 that is over twice the size as the stock oil filter for my engine so I won't have low oil pressure caused by the oil filter.
Here are some pic's of three oil filters(Baldwin, Honda and Napa/Wix) for my car.
http://s949.photobucket.com/albums/ad338/rrounds/Oil Filters/
The larger filter will supply more oil than the stock filter with less pressure drop. If you have the room I'd put on the largest filter on that would fit.

ROD


With a vehicle in warranty, that is not a good move to go outside a cataloged part number either OEM or non OEM.

You will lose warranty redress with both KIA and the aftermarket filter maker because a non-cataloged filter was used if it happens to fail.

KIA does not have a "oil pressure problem" if a correct spec filter is used. People seem to think it is a KIA/HYUNDAI problem if the aftermarket filter does not work properly when it is the responsibility of the aftermarket filter maker to meet the KIA/HYUNDAI spec.
 
Yeah, it's hard to tell from the displayed pic whether the ecore has the combo valve or it's just the adbv. One would think the correct application is shown though. I agree the main point was to show that some filters have odd and possibly substandard designs compared to oem.

And to be fair here, other manufacturers have similar oil filter tsb's. Not too long ago remember reading a thread about a Ford tsb warning about aftermarket filter use with some engines.
 
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
KIA does not have a "oil pressure problem" if a correct spec filter is used.


Of all the flow vs. PSID data I've seen on at least the major brand name filters, none of them seem to be overly restrictive.

Now on some sub-tier off brand filters who knows what they flow, and it very well could be that some are so restrictive that it causes the oil pump to hit pressure relief while not supplying much oil flow to the engine.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top