Neutra vs. Stabil for storage?

[OneQuartLow]

I'm curious as to the differences between these products when used to stabilize gasoline over seasonal storage. I used to drain carbs & lines for the winter. More recently I've taken to using the Stabil product in the last few tanks so I can just shut it down for the winter. Seems to help prevent dried out seals I'd see after dry-storage. How would Neutra (#131) work for this purpose, and what ratio would be proper?

David

 

[MolaKule]

I have heard that Stabil is not as stable as advertized. My chainsaw shop
only has this to say about it, $%^@#$*!( stuff.

Anyway, I would use 15 cc or 15 mL or 1/2 oz. per gallon of fuel. Put Neutra in gas can or tank and then add fuel; run for about 10 minutes and then shut down.

 

[OneQuartLow]

Thanks Mola. I keep learning things here that leave me with unusable products on my shelves.

Can you explain in simple terms what happens to stored gasoline that degrades it, and what's being stabilized? I've seen my share of varnish but don't understand what happens beyond gas evaporating & leaving remnants of itself (and fried seals).

David

 

[Bio-T]

OneQuartLow,
You can go to priproducts and it explains alot of the problems with both diesel and gas storage. Don't forget to put www and .com when you type in priproducts to get on their site.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

Here is what they say in that sales page

for their treatment....

All fuels form masses of unburnable carbon, gum and varnish during storage and combustion. These agglomerations of carbon, gum and varnish (left) do not completely burn, leaving damaging deposits on engine components while wasting fuel.

Problem is this is incomplete... As you mentioned, seals are a big concern as well acids and build up.. This is why you want a product that is designed to neutralize acids, help seals, lubricate,disperse water, keep fuel from becoming sour over time and of course clean.

 

[MolaKule]

"Can you explain in simple terms what happens to stored gasoline that degrades it, and what's being stabilized? I've seen my share of varnish but don't understand what happens beyond gas evaporating & leaving remnants of itself (and fried seals)."

Fuel degrades by oxidization, moisture, and internal chemical reactions.

Fuel is a blend of octane (white gas), benzine, and other hydrocarbon components. Most fuel stabilization treaments break-up moisture, deoxidize, and reverse internal chemical reactions.

I haven't tried PRI, but have heard (anecdotal) good things about it.

 

[OneQuartLow]

Thanks again MoleKule.

Okay, so on the moisture item, is it a strong enough effect to draw humidity through plastic tanks/containers? (ala brake fluid) We haven't noticed a problem in our many Stabil'd gas containers but I don't know it isn't happening.

David

 

[slickracer]

Briggs & Stratton sells a fuel stabilizer that the guys at my local lawn mowers shop swear by.

 

[ben walker]

quote:

---

Fuel is a blend of octane (white gas), benzine, and other hydrocarbon components. Most fuel stabilization treaments break-up moisture, deoxidize, and reverse internal

---

White gas usually referes to Coleman fuel which is essentialy naptha. gasoline does not contain this as it is very low in octane. Gasoline contains very little if any benzine also as the EPA isnt to fond of it.

 

[MolaKule]

Coleman Lantern Fuel or camping fuel is a mixture of white gasoline (non-additized) and naptha.

Gasoline is a mixture of many hydrocarbons containing the backbone whose building block is the "benzene" ring C6H6.

The general formula for gasoline is C8,26H15,5
and gasoline may contain paraffinic groups including the methyl groups in addition to olefins, acetylenes, ehtylenes, and polypropylenes, and octance improvers and oxygenators such as methanol, MTBE, TBA, and ethanol.

For example, isooctane (2,2,4-trimethylpentane)has an octane number of 100, while n-heptane has a lower number.

 

[Sciguyjim]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MolaKule:
Coleman Lantern Fuel or camping fuel is a mixture of white gasoline (non-additized) and naptha.

Gasoline is a mixture of many hydrocarbons containing the backbone whose building block is the "benzene" ring C6H6.

The general formula for gasoline is C8,26H15,5
and gasoline may contain paraffinic groups including the methyl groups in addition to olefins, acetylenes, ehtylenes, and polypropylenes, and octance improvers and oxygenators such as methanol, MTBE, TBA, and ethanol.

For example, isooctane (2,2,4-trimethylpentane)has an octane number of 100, while n-heptane has a lower number.

---

Using a generic, simplified formula for gasoline makes it sound overly simplistic. Gasoline is actually made up of thousands of compounds with very many structural differences, even when the chemical formulas are the same. I spent 8 years analyzing oil fractions with a major oil company and I well remember the hours spent trying to identify each compound our mass spec would find. I remember one mass spec analysis of an aromatic portion of an oil that had a printout that was 17 feet long, single spaced type, almost every number was a different compound for me to chart!

Benzene is only the first, and smallest, aromatic compound in gasoline. It constitutes just a tiny fraction of 1% of the total. The high molecular weight portion consists of a large variety of chemicals containing up to about 30 carbon atoms in a dizzying variety of structures, but each is present in only trace amounts.

There are various paraffins and iso-paraffins, also many types of aromatic compounds with methyl, ethyl, propyl, etc. groups in all possible combinations and structural variations, but there are very few olefins and no acetylenes at all. These unsaturated hydrocarbons would be the first to undergo oxidation and other unwanted reactions so they are not wanted in the finished product.

Any iso-octane or heptane would also be in trace quantities only. They are used as references for octane ratings only. They may be present as part of the thousands of compounds in the total mix, but gasoline is not actually made from them. Mixtures of these are only used in the lab to generate fuels with specific octane ratings for testing purposes because only by using such a simple mixture could you make formulas with specific, reproducible properties.

 

[MolaKule]

"Using a generic, simplified formula for gasoline makes it sound overly simplistic. Gasoline is actually made up of thousands of compounds with very many structural differences, even when the chemical formulas are the same. I spent 8 years analyzing oil fractions with a major oil company and I well remember the hours spent trying to identify each compound our mass spec would find. I remember one mass spec analysis of an aromatic portion of an oil that had a printout that was 17 feet long, single spaced type, almost every number was a different compound for me to chart!"

Benzene is only the first, and smallest, aromatic compound in gasoline. It constitutes just a tiny fraction of 1% of the total. The high molecular weight portion consists of a large variety of chemicals containing up to about 30 carbon atoms in a dizzying variety of structures, but each is present in only trace amounts.

Actually I was trying to simplify with the "bare bones" explanation. I did not care to list the compounds and/or the variations, just trying to keep it simple. And the benzene ring is the starting or "backbone" molecule for the larger molecules.

 

[MolaKule]

" Briggs & Stratton sells a fuel stabilizer that the guys at my local lawn mowers shop swear by."

That's what my shop people say as well. Said it's the best non-specialty stabilizer on the market.

 

[shortyb]

I am trying to figure out if the Briggs and Stratton stabilizer is manufactured by a company that makes "Fuel Fresh". Used to buy the Fuel Fresh from my regular supplier and now they sent me the B&S stuff. Same color and bottle as the Fuel Fresh, just wondering because the Fuel Fresh worked VERY well for me. Any thoughts?

 

[MolaKule]

OneQuart,

"Thanks again MoleKule.

Okay, so on the moisture item, is it a strong enough effect to draw humidity through plastic tanks/containers? (ala brake fluid) We haven't noticed a problem in our many Stabil'd gas containers but I don't know it isn't happening."

Most plastic containers are not porous enough to "draw-in" moisture. Most moisture is sucked-in through the caps or lids via temperature drops in which the pressure inside the container drops lower than atmospheric pressure, causing moisture from the ouside to enter the fuel container. So put in your favorite stabilizer, tighten the lids, and store at room temp if possible.