Confused about semi metallic and ceramic pads

[Falcon_LS]

Just like the Mercury, I'm going to be doing some brake work on the Mitsu. I'm going to be rebuilding the calipers, replacing the brake hoses, slightly resurfacing the rotors to remove pad material, and installing new pads. I think 13 years and nearly 225,000 miles on the original components is pushing it, and this is cheap insurance so to speak.

There are two grades of brake pads available from Mitsubishi - the Value offering and the OE pads. I've always used premium grade OE pads on the truck, which are semi metallic. I could be wrong, but I beleive the Value pads are organic. Not too sure on this, but I think Sumitimo supplies pads to Mitsubishi.

I've occassionally had some squealing, but that wouldn't happen too often. Performance is decent, but not exactly outstanding. My only major complaint is I have shiney aluminum wheels on the truck that get coated in brake dust, and it is a major pain to properly clean off.

Anyhow, I decided I would go with Akebono ProACT Ultra-Premium Ceramic pads this time round, so I started doing a bit of research on them. I'm not sure if this was a bad idea, but I ended up reading countless pages on semi metallic vs. ceramic and that has me completely confused.

You had people mentioning "special" rotors are required for ceramic pads, and that ceramic pads last longer because they "eat" the rotors. Apparently, the rotors "lose atoms faster" and wear down. To the best of my knowledge, there aren't any rotors made specifically for ceramic pads, but I could be wrong. I've also read something about semi metallics not being able to hold heat as well as ceramic, causing the rotor to absorb all the heat.

I'm basically after a set of pads that are an upgrade to OE, be it semi metallic or ceramic. Brake dust is a concern, but if better pads will decrease stopping distance and improve braking performance, I have no problem continuing to clean the wheels like I have done for the past 13 years. I realize you get what you pay for with pads, and brakes and tires are two areas I refuse to save money on.

I've looked at many different brands, including Hawks and EBC, but one major concern with this application is pad material. The fronts are easily available in a variety of different compositions, but the rears aren't. So I don't want to end up getting ceramics up front and semi metallics in the rear. Some suppliers, like Hawks for instance, only have front pads available for this application and I don't want to go with two different brands. The Akebonos seem to have some pretty decent reviews, and have the advantage of being able to stick with the same composition material front and rear. They are slighly more expensive than other offerings, but I have no problem with that.

I was just after some BITOG opinions on ceramics "eating rotors" before I go for the Akebonos. Thanks in advance!

 

[Astro14]

I've got 50,000 miles on a set of Akebono ceramics on my wife's Volvo (front and rear, regular brembo rotors). There's virtually zero rotor wear to date, and the pads are still at least half their original thickness. Zero dust, zero noise.

They're simply great pads...and all the opinions you've heard, are, in my experience, hogwash...you're going to love them!

 

[SteveSRT8]

Many different 'flavors' in a brake pad. Just like ice cream!

ANY hi performance formula will wear rotors faster. They need to get hot to work well, and in normal easy driving they score things up. Note this applies to all pads.

And don't get hung up on 'ceramic'. It's become a marketing buzzword for selling pads, and may only be 1% product. Also, you are extremely unlikely to ever find a true hi performance pad that does not dust the wheels.

IME Hawks tend to squeal like stuck pigs if not used HARD often. Same with EBC. Akebono makes a lot of OEM pads, and this is where your best all around formulas will be had.

 

[barlowc]

I've been threading about brakes for our Saturn and discovered that the OE pads currently on it are made/supplied by Akebono. I found the Akebono name embossed on the "ears" of the pads. I've decided that I'm going to either stick with the OE/Akebono pads or use their Pro-ACT pads which I can pick up locally at AAP.

I've heard a lot of good things about the Pro-ACT pads. Minimal dust, good stopping power, and easy on rotors. Also, Akebono says that no special break-in is required, eliminating that whole debate. Akebono has their engineering center here in Michigan just a handful of miles from where I live, so I feel good about supporting them too.

 

[brandini]

Bendix Ceramic is fantastic as well, all my impressions mirror what was said earlier about the ProAct pads. Just get what's available for your car. I've also heard NAPA premium ceramic are great as well.

 

[BigBird57]

I use the wagner thermo quite brake pads on three different vehicles with no issue. I used the aap code at check out and received 40% off. On one set I was able to stack a wagner rebate with the aap.

 

[brelandt]

Originally Posted By: BigBird57
I use the wagner thermo quite brake pads on three different vehicles with no issue. I used the aap code at check out and received 40% off. On one set I was able to stack a wagner rebate with the aap.


This is what we use on 90% of our brake jobs and rarely ever get a come back about noise or any other complaints.

 

[stephen9666]

To the OP-

The whole ceramic vs metallic debate can get pretty confusing. There's a lot of misinformation out there.

Plus, like another member mentioned, the word "ceramic" can be used on almost any formulation, if they include ceramic materials in the formula.

Long story short, there are good ceramic pads and good non-ceramic pads. I'd say your best bet is to stick to a well-reviewed, name-brand pad and you should be fine. It sounds like that's exactly what you're doing, so I think you're on the right track.

I personally stay away from Chinese parts whenever possible, and avoided Chinese pads. There are too many good choices that are made in first-world countries to go Chinese. But, that's just my opinion.

When I recently did my brakes I had narrowed it down to Bendix CT-3 or Akebono ProAct. Both are made in the USA or Canada.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
I've got 50,000 miles on a set of Akebono ceramics on my wife's Volvo (front and rear, regular brembo rotors). There's virtually zero rotor wear to date, and the pads are still at least half their original thickness. Zero dust, zero noise.

They're simply great pads...and all the opinions you've heard, are, in my experience, hogwash...you're going to love them!


It's refreshing to hear a good review from a fellow BITOGer.

Just went ahead and purchased both front (ACT530) and rear (ACT567) pads off Amazon for $61.05 shipped to my US mailbox. Factor in the forwarding costs to Kuwait, and it still works out slightly cheaper at $119.96 compared to the OE semi metallics at $137.89.

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Many different 'flavors' in a brake pad. Just like ice cream!

ANY hi performance formula will wear rotors faster. They need to get hot to work well, and in normal easy driving they score things up. Note this applies to all pads.

And don't get hung up on 'ceramic'. It's become a marketing buzzword for selling pads, and may only be 1% product. Also, you are extremely unlikely to ever find a true hi performance pad that does not dust the wheels.

IME Hawks tend to squeal like stuck pigs if not used HARD often. Same with EBC. Akebono makes a lot of OEM pads, and this is where your best all around formulas will be had.


Thanks for the input!

The Hawks pads get very good reviews on a Crown Vic forum I frequent as far as performance goes, but I suppose the squealing is to be expected.

I'm looking forward to trying to Akebono pads. I got a set of Raybestos Advanced Technology Ceramic pads for my cousin's '07 TrailBlazer, which has been doing really good so far. He's very hard on the brakes, and has mentioned several times how much better the brakes grab compared to the ACDelco pads he was using. I'm not sure if that's a fair comparison, considering he never burnished the brakes and I did exactly that after installing them for him, but his wheels are certainly much cleaner. Will be good to see how the Akebonos hold up in comparison on my truck.

I also got myself a can of Permatex Disc Brake Quiet to apply to the shims on the back of the pads, just to be on the safe side and prevent any squealing.

Originally Posted By: barlowc
I've been threading about brakes for our Saturn and discovered that the OE pads currently on it are made/supplied by Akebono. I found the Akebono name embossed on the "ears" of the pads. I've decided that I'm going to either stick with the OE/Akebono pads or use their Pro-ACT pads which I can pick up locally at AAP.

I've heard a lot of good things about the Pro-ACT pads. Minimal dust, good stopping power, and easy on rotors. Also, Akebono says that no special break-in is required, eliminating that whole debate. Akebono has their engineering center here in Michigan just a handful of miles from where I live, so I feel good about supporting them too.


Great to hear another positive review! Read the bit about no break in being required as well. I believe the Wagner pads are the same. I will still burnish the brakes after installation though.

Originally Posted By: brandini
Bendix Ceramic is fantastic as well, all my impressions mirror what was said earlier about the ProAct pads. Just get what's available for your car. I've also heard NAPA premium ceramic are great as well.


I might end up trying their CT-3 pads when the time comes to do the brakes again on the Grand Marquis. But unfortunately the only pads available for this application from Bendix were the Import Quiet pads up front and regular pads in the rear.

The NAPA pads are pretty decent as well, supplied by Rayloc. They are pricier though at $80+ for a set.

Originally Posted By: stephen9666
To the OP-

The whole ceramic vs metallic debate can get pretty confusing. There's a lot of misinformation out there.

Plus, like another member mentioned, the word "ceramic" can be used on almost any formulation, if they include ceramic materials in the formula.

Long story short, there are good ceramic pads and good non-ceramic pads. I'd say your best bet is to stick to a well-reviewed, name-brand pad and you should be fine. It sounds like that's exactly what you're doing, so I think you're on the right track.

I personally stay away from Chinese parts whenever possible, and avoided Chinese pads. There are too many good choices that are made in first-world countries to go Chinese. But, that's just my opinion.

When I recently did my brakes I had narrowed it down to Bendix CT-3 or Akebono ProAct. Both are made in the USA or Canada.



Refreshing to hear the ProACTs are made in the US or Canada.

I'm a bit wary about Chinese brake parts, but it appears that's where most of them are sourced from. Recently got a Cardone Select master cylinder for my Grand Marquis, which is a new unit as opposed to rebuilt...turned out to be made in China. Same with the Motorcraft rotors, and what appears to be most of Raybestos' range.

 

[mechtech2]

After over 200k, I'd get the rotors trued up or new ones.
If you can get by with a light sanding - more power to you, but that is highly unusual for those high miles!
I like using good pads - the best you can get.
Ceramics generally do have less dust, or it is a different color, or it doesn't stick. They do not make the wheels as dirty.

 

[barlowc]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Ceramics generally do have less dust, or it is a different color, or it doesn't stick. They do not make the wheels as dirty.

Supposed to be the case, though, I put Bosch ceramic pads on the front and rear of a 98 Grand Prix GTP I had about 8 years ago and the dust was pretty pad. I was disappointed with those pads.

How can original rotors with 200K be within spec? I've never heard of rotors lasting nearly that long.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
I've got 50,000 miles on a set of Akebono ceramics on my wife's Volvo (front and rear, regular brembo rotors). There's virtually zero rotor wear to date, and the pads are still at least half their original thickness. Zero dust, zero noise.

They're simply great pads...and all the opinions you've heard, are, in my experience, hogwash...you're going to love them!

+1
I'm using the Akebono ceramics on two different vehicles. They are OUTSTANDING brake pads! Smooth, strong, quiet, and CLEAN. No unusual rotor wear on either vehicle. Use them with confidence, I strongly recommend them. You will like them.

 

[yonyon]

Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS

I'm looking forward to trying to Akebono pads. I got a set of Raybestos Advanced Technology Ceramic pads for my cousin's '07 TrailBlazer, which has been doing really good so far. He's very hard on the brakes, and has mentioned several times how much better the brakes grab compared to the ACDelco pads he was using. I'm not sure if that's a fair comparison, considering he never burnished the brakes and I did exactly that after installing them for him, but his wheels are certainly much cleaner. Will be good to see how the Akebonos hold up in comparison on my truck.


Comparing ACDelco pads to pads to Raybestos pads is like comparing ACDelco pads to Satisfied pads Or ACDelco pads to PBR pads or ACDelco to any number of other brands. How else would they be able to make money offering multiple product lines for so many applications? They can afford to offer a lot of different products because they don't make them, they buy them. Sometimes the pads will even proudly display the name/logo of the maker's big brand with the only thing ACDelco about them being the box and the leaflet inside.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
After over 200k, I'd get the rotors trued up or new ones.
If you can get by with a light sanding - more power to you, but that is highly unusual for those high miles!
I like using good pads - the best you can get.
Ceramics generally do have less dust, or it is a different color, or it doesn't stick. They do not make the wheels as dirty.


Originally Posted By: barlowc
How can original rotors with 200K be within spec? I've never heard of rotors lasting nearly that long.


Oh the rotors have been replaced. The current set was installed in July 2009 when I last did my brakes. I've only replaced the fluid since. Nevertheless I will have them resurfaced, not because they're warped or anything, but just to get the old pad material off.

Originally Posted By: wag123
+1
I'm using the Akebono ceramics on two different vehicles. They are OUTSTANDING brake pads! Smooth, strong, quiet, and CLEAN. No unusual rotor wear on either vehicle. Use them with confidence, I strongly recommend them. You will like them.


Never thought I'd be so eager to get a brake job out the way.

Originally Posted By: yonyon
Comparing ACDelco pads to pads to Raybestos pads is like comparing ACDelco pads to Satisfied pads Or ACDelco pads to PBR pads or ACDelco to any number of other brands. How else would they be able to make money offering multiple product lines for so many applications? They can afford to offer a lot of different products because they don't make them, they buy them. Sometimes the pads will even proudly display the name/logo of the maker's big brand with the only thing ACDelco about them being the box and the leaflet inside.


From what I've read, ACDelco's supplier is Affinia, who also seem to supply Raybestos. Do they have multiple suppliers for different makes/models?

 

[barlowc]

Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
From what I've read, ACDelco's supplier is Affinia, who also seem to supply Raybestos. Do they have multiple suppliers for different makes/models?

Yes. For example, I know for a fact that the OE / AC Delco pads for our Saturn are supplied by Akebono. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I had seen information indicating that Akebono was the OE supplier. And then, when inspect the pads that came on the vehicle from the factory, I found the Akebono name embossed on the "ears". Also, the Amazon listing for the OE / AC Delco pads for our Saturn states, "ACDelco partners with other manufacturers to supply the parts your car was originally built with. This product is in a ACDelco package, however the part may have been manufactured by an independent ACDelco supplier."

 

[CharBaby]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
I've got 50,000 miles on a set of Akebono ceramics on my wife's Volvo (front and rear, regular brembo rotors). There's virtually zero rotor wear to date, and the pads are still at least half their original thickness. Zero dust, zero noise.

They're simply great pads...and all the opinions you've heard, are, in my experience, hogwash...you're going to love them!


I too have this Brembo/Akebono setup on my wifes Lexus and they're great. Very light dusting on the aluminum wheels and never a bit of noise. These brakes stop this 3900lb. CUV very well in all weather conditoins.

 

[wag123]

Over the weekend I rotated the tires on both of my vehicles that have Akebono Ceramic pads. In the process I was able to get a close look at the pads and rotors. The rotors on both vehicles were perfect, NO noticeable wear. The pads themselves were also in excellent condition, they appear to be wearing better than the OEM pads that came off the vehicles.