what is auto rx?

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I have a new car with only 6000 miles on it and am starting synthetic oil. when would i use this stuff,where can i get it?
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With only 6000 miles and using synthetics you haved a long long time before you would need to think about using RX. Save your money for the synthetic and good filters.

Perhasp when you get to 50,000 miles and or you feel the engine is not operating up to par then consider it. Plus, you may have warranty issues to contend with (use of oil additives) and I would not play with those in any way. RX will not defend you in court to my knowledge and a dealer will be quick to deny coverage if they know an additive was used.
 
WS-6 Bill, Auto-RX is a great non solvent,non hazardous prepratory cleaner for switching brands.

We have used it successfully in cleaning the last brands adds out of test engines before switching to another test oil. It will not strip Moly.
Generally Spector's comment would be right in the additive issue and warranties, except that
having tested Auto-RX I can assure you that their product liability insurance is more than adequate to protect you and your engine if a warranty issue is denied.

The chemistry is completely invisible to spectrographic analysis unless you do a Gas Chromotagraphic burn.

One of the multi million dollar additive companies that sells adds to the major oil companies is currently testing Auto-RX to be used as a cleaner and possibly as a part of future oil add packages so I wouldn't worry about compatiblity or liability in it's use in a new car engine.
The most meaningful way to decide on Auto-Rx being used is to analyze the oil to see if cleaning is needed.

Dragboat brings up a good point in another thread that break-in and assembly debris can be successfully cleaned and evacuated from a new engine. Some of that stuff can hide in the engine cavaties for some time before becoming dislodged etc.

Finally Auto-RX is inert in your oil,it does not negatively affect any aspect of your host oil except to clean and disburse trash to the oil filter. There are no negatives associated with it's use.

Hope that helps answer some questions about a really neat product that won't hurt you or your equipement,while cleaning slowly and safely.
 
Terry;

Excellent points however two rebuttals. First, RX does not state (I don't believe they do, looks like only guarantee is the money back one) (like Amsoil, a poor choice I know) that they will cover any damage or engine failures due to use or denial of warranty and, as shown by the Toyota sludge issue, dealers don't care what manufacturers of additives or modifications say. If they know the recommended oil or intervals were not followed and/or an additive was used they will deny coverage, plain and simple,. Yes, in the long run, and with you testifying in court and years later you will win, the issue is can the user afford the hassle and cost. Why not just wait until the warranty is over and play it safe.

Millions of people switch oil brands, weights every day with no ill effect and without cleaning the engine before each brand change.

[ September 03, 2002, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: Spector ]
 
Spector, Point well taken on warranty issues and dealing with them.

My point is this; Auto-Rx has enough financial backing that if I thought their product caused a warranty denial I would look to them to make me whole. The product does not void warranties because it is inert. It's no different than changing brands and the dealer saying that I can't honor your warranty because you changed from Valvoline to Pennzoil. Same difference. The big issue with additives is that they change or react with the host chemistry. Auto-RX doesn't.

As far as changing brands and using Auto-RX as a pre cleaning product, I was sharing how we have used it and the fact that because of it's inert capabilities that it is effective and safe.

Millions change brands but they aren't doing fleet trials for testing like we do and never realize that it can affect the performance of the oil in service.

[ September 03, 2002, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: Terry ]
 
I'm puzzled. Natural and synthetic?

"Auto-Rx® is made with true
ecological, natural chemistry and, as such, is not required to report chemistry to the US
Government."

"Auto-Rx® is a synthetic, biodegradable, highly effective, safe metal cleaner."

So what would unnatural chemistry mean? Is this one of those synthetic meaning-of-is things?

David

[ September 03, 2002, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
 
The esters that make up Auto-Rx are derived from a natural source. Natural meaning animal or vegetable based sources.

Can any of you chemists help me explain better how esters are derived and sources?

I'm restricted by secrecy agreement from our testing and must be careful what I say.

Hope that helps Dave.
 
Terry, do you know if Auto-Rx can do anything about dried valve seals? My brother's A4 smokes oil on startup, but only after not being driven for at least a few days. Certainly sounds like valve seals. Anyway, do you know of any products that can actually swell seals to stop minor leaks like this?

(His car has 103,000 miles on it. He already did one Auto-Rx treatment, but didn't really notice anything. In fact, Audi had to recently replace his oil pan do to heavy sludge buildup. The previous owner obviously didn't care for the engine properly.)
 
quote:

Originally posted by cvl:
(His car has 103,000 miles on it. He already did one Auto-Rx treatment, but didn't really notice anything. In fact, Audi had to recently replace his oil pan do to heavy sludge buildup. The previous owner obviously didn't care for the engine properly.)

Sounds like he's a prime candidate for the double treatment, especially the part about replacing the pan due to sludge! If it was mine, I'd now dose it w/Neutra for a few hundred miles, drain that, & then give it another dose of Auto-Rx. Replaced the oil pan?
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Sheesh!
 
Thanks guys, I'll tell him to try the Neutra 131. I didn't see the pan, but he said that the Audi tech showed him and it was full of sludge and actual chunks of hardened oil. I sure don't want to see the turbo bearings in that car!
 
cvl, based on what you are telling me the engine needs the second treatment of Auto-Rx. It will work slowly enough not to spin a bearing. The solvents are going to cut into the deposits quick and could possibly get a chunk stuck in a journal or damage a bearing. The solvent will be absorbed just at the point larger particles are being drawn into suspension.Leaving too much large particles flowing around.

Valve guide seals: Sounds to me like they are mechanically worn out, the deposits are an abradent and have sanded it out of tolerance. Give the Rx a second run on that too,might as well as it is recommended in a severe situation like this. Run the Rx for 1000 miles on the second treatment and change the filter at 500 mile intervals with a fresh filter being used at the beginning of treatment.

I disagree with Bob on his 131 solvent being used here for the reasons above.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Terry:
cvl, based on what you are telling me the engine needs the second treatment of Auto-Rx. It will work slowly enough not to spin a bearing. The solvents are going to cut into the deposits quick and could possibly get a chunk stuck in a journal or damage a bearing. The solvent will be absorbed just at the point larger particles are being drawn into suspension.Leaving too much large particles flowing around.

Valve guide seals: Sounds to me like they are mechanically worn out, the deposits are an abradent and have sanded it out of tolerance. Give the Rx a second run on that too,might as well as it is recommended in a severe situation like this. Run the Rx for 1000 miles on the second treatment and change the filter at 500 mile intervals with a fresh filter being used at the beginning of treatment.

I disagree with Bob on his 131 solvent being used here for the reasons above.


Terry, I had no intention of posting on here about this problem but all I did was give them the correct usage for this product had they decieded to try it, but since you commented on this and keep using the word solvent in refference to the 131 neutra as part of the name which I feel is not the name of the product(131 Solvent) but what appears to be your bias against this product, I felt I had to step in.

With all due respect, please do some testing on the 131 neutra before basing your opinion on how the neutra will effect anything. I know you have really looked at the mdsd's and such, but like many other times, a judgement has been made on such a product and come to find out that it is not what it seems. Unless you know the exact amounts/chemistry design, I don't think you can make a solid determination on just how this will react in an engine without extensive testing. Just like the flash point issue, stating it will not stay in the engine and burn off, but failing to consider that this products flashpoint will take on different charateristics when mixed with another lubricant, so is this solvency. This product may have some solvency in it, but point is, if a bottle of cleaner states put into engine and run 10 or 15mins, then yes, what you are saying is true, but if you can run 4,000 miles with this in your oil especially at the speeds in which I drove to texas and back, in those heated conditions, and not spin a bearing, it sure isn't luck and obviously it sure hasn't caused any problems in the engine either as I had pulled a sample and posted the results, http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000056 , this had a full bottle of neutra in it. You really think this product is going to spin bearings or cause it to break off chunks that I'd even consider using it in mine? Please, the local Toyota boys here in arlington use it in a lot of cars as they themselves have done the same, put some in their engine and have seen where the smoke has gone down to nothing in the 1000 mile period. If you'd like, I'll give you the master Toyota ASE certified mechanic's name and number so you can verify this.

Please understand, I'm not saying auto rx wont do it, but obviously the chemistry is diffrent as you well know, so does that make it a bad product for this use? I don't think so, as it has been used by schaeffers for many many years for many applications.

This product is used in gear boxes, hydraulic systems, engine purges,diesel and gas fuel systems, even auto transmissions and many other applications. Fact, I have one guy that even uses it as a rust buster penetrating oil.

This product has a lubrication property proven in my fuel demo, neutralizes acids again proven in the fuel demo where I put sufuric acid in it, also conditions seals, as I showed on my little tests shown here, http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/sealconditioning/sealcondtioning.htm , .

Here I just got finished responding to groucho about educating more than defending our products and now I feel I have defended this.. Sorry, just feel that you're making opinions based on minor observations on the msds's and not taken the steps or measures as you did with the auto rx, to evaluate this product before making this statement. No, I don't expect you to do all that but if you are going to make such a comment on such a product please be prepared to support your findings with atleast some experiences, or tests as I have provided.

I think you'll find there are many on here now having tried the nuetra and seen it does work as suggested.

[ September 04, 2002, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
 
Bob, I think there is nothing wrong with "defending" a product, or even a theory, you believe in. Please don't infer that defense is a negetive term. It was used as I felt your product had been attacked, despite your claims. I'm not trying to start a war here, I just wanted to post some casual observations.
 
As always I appreciate and respect your opinion Bob, and your testing. I still have the nuetra you left with me and have not yet tested it in a crankcase.

cvl asked a specific question about Auto-Rx and before he could get an answer he was conveniently provided info on Neutra on the Auto-Rx thread so In my mind some selling was going on.

(Setting up the pins before we bowl.)

And I feel completely confident posting my opinions on the neutra under this thread since you brought it up as an alternative for cvl.

Point is this; when solvents work they work on the surface of the deposits and are depleted as they clean through each layer. The opportunity to chunk off a 50 micron deposit is real about the time you think you have cleaned a grossly sludged engine and the solvent is absorbed while cleaning.

The RX product was developed as an alternative to solvents for a slower non hazardous alternative that does not deplete but ends up disbursing the trash in a very small form (small enough to flow by bearings etc.) Solvents use the oil to disburse depleting it.

I categorize Nuetra as a solvent because it is one, and a good one obviously from your tests and the fact that Schaeffers makes it.

I'm currently testing another solvent type product that is cheaper and more effective than any I have ever seen . But it is not Auto-Rx it is definitely a solvent with solvent characteristrics.

I don't want to sell either Auto-Rx or Neutra. I get paid to test the stuff....sometimes when people pay on time.
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And I feel completely confident posting my opinions on the neutra under this thread since you brought it up as an alternative for cvl.

Terry, Stuart was the one suggesting it only using the wrong mileage interval for that suggested problem, So I stepped in to correct amount and mileage. I really never ment to push the 131 as the alternative even though in my mind and experiences it is, I would have never touched this thread on that, but I feel that if there is someone discussing it, I need to ensure that correct information should apply. Stuart lives near you and is not a salesman for Schaeffers, but a product user and has had some interesting results so he is given his opinion based on this and not selling as I wasn't trying to come off that way as well, so, sorry if it may have seemed that way, just trying to maintian factual recommendations so that if someone was to try and correct seal issues such as his problem, it gets the correct oppertunity to do it.

I understand your skeptism and appreciate what your saying about solvents in general as I have had that experience in a 40,000 mile car coming back from texas to utah in the early 80's and in tuson az I lost a front crank bearing due to the 15 min engine flush solvent I had done a week back in texas. Not understanding that if a solvent like this is used, there is no way to get all of it out by just draining and putting in fresh oil then going.

I think that just because it may have some solvency in a product,does it really classify it as a solvent?

Look at this....

__________________________

Neutra Purging Fluid is a highly concentrated ashless fluid that is specially formulated to gently clean and purge equipment of varnish and carbon deposits.

Over time and use varnish and carbon deposits can build up on the interior surfaces of equipment. This buildup is formed when the lubricating fluid being used deteriorates from constant exposure to air, moisture, high temperatures and contamination. As the lubricant breakdown progresses varnish and carbon deposits can begin to rapidly build up. This buildup not only can reduce the operating efficiency of the unit, but also can restrict oil circulation, raise operating temperatures and cause abrasive wear to take place.

With the use of Neutra Purging Fluid these carbon and varnish deposits can be dispersed while the equipment continues to operate. Neutra Purging Fluid dissolves and suspends these deposits until they are removed with the next oil change.
_______________________________-

now that came off the tech data sheet... no where does it say it's a solvent. Like many full synth's, if a certain amount of synth base stock is used, it can qualify as a full synth, but is it really a full synth? So, how much of a detergent or solvent qualifies it as a harsh solvent? Obviously, this is not a harsh one otherwise you could not recommend continued use in a running engine.

I think it's the Cresylic Acid CAS#1319-77-3 at
.5-.7% that you are classifing it as a solvent when in fact if you consider the %,it barely is enough to be considered a solvent let alone classify it as just that.


Again, It's the whole picture, not just one aspect of any tech data or msds that must be considered and even then, as we all know, oil analysis is a true representation on how a product/oil is effecting any of it in a case like this.
 
Wow! I go teach class, come back a few hrs later, & find myself in the middle here.
confused.gif
I wondered why my ears were burning.
grin.gif


I simply stated what I'd try if it was *mine*. Guarded advice at best. Also: Note that I'd use *Both* Neutra and Auto-Rx, just not in the same fill. Sounds like that Audi needs *something*(or several somethings) that'll do some serious cleaning.

FWIW: I've used both in my car, was pleased with the results of both, & think both are excellent products. Whether you buy either or not, or how you use either one, is strictly up to you.

Let's face it, nobody agrees on Everything! That's what makes horse races.
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Thanks for all of the info guys, it's been great. As for the Audi, it did have its oil pan replaced, so a good deal of the sludge is already gone.

I ordered both products today and instructed my brother to first do another Auto-Rx treatment using the oil that's already in the car (about 400 miles on it). He'll also put a bottle of the Neutra in the gas tank. After a month, he'll do an oil change and go with the Neutra for a month in the crankcase. I'll also have him round up some Delvac 1 5w-40 to be using. There should be some serious cleaning going on.
 
cvl,

give auto rx plenty of chance to do it's job. no sense in piling on the neutra behind the auto rx. Might undo what auto rx is trying to do so really I'd make sure there is plenty of time for it to accomplish it's job. After that, if you feel it has or has not done what you have expected, then maybe try the neutra at that point but not until your completely satisfied with the time frame for auto rx.
 
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