GM 3.4L V6 Overheating- headgasket?

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They're tough to work on, but not impossible. I've had the displeasure of doing several now and am to the point where head or intake work isn't much worse than in a car. It sounds like your gaskets were replaced with the plastic framed set a few times. Somewhere along the line, Fel-Pro came out with steel frame gaskets that really upped their durability (Nick, take note here).


Nick, I applaud your good intentions, but are you sure you're ready to tackle an intake job and get it right?

+1 On these vans its a PITA the first time even for a pro.
I just did an alternator on one that i did heads on a couple of years ago and even the alternator while not terrible was still a PITA.
Taking the washer bottle out is the trick when working on the front of the engine.
 
Thats a good idea.
The first time I put the montana back together, I had an issue with the rear valve cover gasket.
It had fallen out of its slot before I got it bolted up and oil was essentially pouring out.
Of course, the alternator and bracket cover that side valve cover.
I unbolted the front engine mounts, cranked the engine forward with a strap. Then I unbolted the alt and dropped it back behind the engine, since I couldnt get it out over the intake.
Then I was able to remove the bracket.
I used a couple dots of RTV around the gasket to "glue" it in place and let it setup before putting it back together.
 
This is probably the most irritating behavior ever. I drove it with the mom yesterday (she knows a decent amount about cars) and I noticed something. First of all, it drives perfectly. Lots of power, steering is tight, suspension is good. It doesn't feel like it has anything wrong with it. Well other than the ABS light and temp gauge.

I asked her and her husband if the temp gauge had ever actually been pegged. They both said no, it got high and to the red, but never completely all the way over. Also, the water pump is flinging water around. AND, if you come to a stop, the temp climbs quickly. But if you put it in neutral and rev it up, or are driving it, the temp drops down below normal. Pics area below. It really does remind me more of a bad water pump and thermostat.

also, something that my lady friend had neglected to tell me, this is a rebuilt engine. It was put in at about 100k miles, it has 161k on it now. It was a GM rebuilt engine, in probably about 2005/2006 she said. So I'm wondering, don't the newer versions of these engines have better gaskets than when it originally was built? The coolant semes fine. What I want to do is replace the water pump and thermostat, and flush the cooling system. The rad is full of gunk. Might just replace the radiator. I told her that there is every chance that the head gasket or LIM gasket is bad, but we'll do the little stuff first. She agreed and had actually been planning on changing both of those herself before they parked it.

This is about where it goes very quickly after stopping, sometims a little bit past the line, but never fully into the red. Then if you rev it up, it very quickly drops down to the bottom one. That is where it stays when driving. Only when stopped does it start to get hot. IT all happens very quickly too. Within 10 seconds of revving the engine at a stop, it drops down fully.

It's also worth mentioning that the coolant level is full and has stayed full since I filled it. Perhaps it's just the LIM, waterpump, and gunked up radiator?

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20120424194846.jpg


20120424192320.jpg





EDIT: Also, there is a pipe that goes over across the front of the engine that needs replaced, it's the coolant one. Does anyone know what it's called so I can price it out?
 
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Originally Posted By: Nick R
This is probably the most irritating behavior ever. I drove it with the mom yesterday (she knows a decent amount about cars) and I noticed something. First of all, it drives perfectly. Lots of power, steering is tight, suspension is good. It doesn't feel like it has anything wrong with it. Well other than the ABS light and temp gauge.

I asked her and her husband if the temp gauge had ever actually been pegged. They both said no, it got high and to the red, but never completely all the way over. Also, the water pump is flinging water around. AND, if you come to a stop, the temp climbs quickly. But if you put it in neutral and rev it up, or are driving it, the temp drops down below normal. Pics area below. It really does remind me more of a bad water pump and thermostat.

also, something that my lady friend had neglected to tell me, this is a rebuilt engine. It was put in at about 100k miles, it has 161k on it now. It was a GM rebuilt engine, in probably about 2005/2006 she said. So I'm wondering, don't the newer versions of these engines have better gaskets than when it originally was built? The coolant semes fine. What I want to do is replace the water pump and thermostat, and flush the cooling system. The rad is full of gunk. Might just replace the radiator. I told her that there is every chance that the head gasket or LIM gasket is bad, but we'll do the little stuff first. She agreed and had actually been planning on changing both of those herself before they parked it.

This is about where it goes very quickly after stopping, sometims a little bit past the line, but never fully into the red. Then if you rev it up, it very quickly drops down to the bottom one. That is where it stays when driving. Only when stopped does it start to get hot. IT all happens very quickly too. Within 10 seconds of revving the engine at a stop, it drops down fully.

It's also worth mentioning that the coolant level is full and has stayed full since I filled it. Perhaps it's just the LIM, waterpump, and gunked up radiator?

20120424192312.jpg


20120424194846.jpg


20120424192320.jpg





EDIT: Also, there is a pipe that goes over across the front of the engine that needs replaced, it's the coolant one. Does anyone know what it's called so I can price it out?


It must be from all those leaves in the cowl. jk. My Equinox (same engine) was doing that same problem beforte the headgasket went. Luckily it was under GM certified warranty and I got a top end rebuild with the revised gaskets done by their master mechanic (I have been kind of a PITA for this dealership and I feel like they had their master do it so it would be done right and I would stop coming in for a long long time.) haha

The front pipe looks like a heater hose. It starts from inside the firewall and goes across the front of the engine? That is my guess. You might be better off measuring the hose and going to a hardware store and have them cut you a length (make sure to get hose that is capable of handling those temps.) it will save you more money for the headgasket/rebuild kit you will need.
 
Originally Posted By: Bgallagher
Originally Posted By: Nick R
This is probably the most irritating behavior ever. I drove it with the mom yesterday (she knows a decent amount about cars) and I noticed something. First of all, it drives perfectly. Lots of power, steering is tight, suspension is good. It doesn't feel like it has anything wrong with it. Well other than the ABS light and temp gauge.

I asked her and her husband if the temp gauge had ever actually been pegged. They both said no, it got high and to the red, but never completely all the way over. Also, the water pump is flinging water around. AND, if you come to a stop, the temp climbs quickly. But if you put it in neutral and rev it up, or are driving it, the temp drops down below normal. Pics area below. It really does remind me more of a bad water pump and thermostat.

also, something that my lady friend had neglected to tell me, this is a rebuilt engine. It was put in at about 100k miles, it has 161k on it now. It was a GM rebuilt engine, in probably about 2005/2006 she said. So I'm wondering, don't the newer versions of these engines have better gaskets than when it originally was built? The coolant semes fine. What I want to do is replace the water pump and thermostat, and flush the cooling system. The rad is full of gunk. Might just replace the radiator. I told her that there is every chance that the head gasket or LIM gasket is bad, but we'll do the little stuff first. She agreed and had actually been planning on changing both of those herself before they parked it.

This is about where it goes very quickly after stopping, sometims a little bit past the line, but never fully into the red. Then if you rev it up, it very quickly drops down to the bottom one. That is where it stays when driving. Only when stopped does it start to get hot. IT all happens very quickly too. Within 10 seconds of revving the engine at a stop, it drops down fully.

It's also worth mentioning that the coolant level is full and has stayed full since I filled it. Perhaps it's just the LIM, waterpump, and gunked up radiator?

20120424192312.jpg


20120424194846.jpg


20120424192320.jpg





EDIT: Also, there is a pipe that goes over across the front of the engine that needs replaced, it's the coolant one. Does anyone know what it's called so I can price it out?


It must be from all those leaves in the cowl. jk. My Equinox (same engine) was doing that same problem beforte the headgasket went. Luckily it was under GM certified warranty and I got a top end rebuild with the revised gaskets done by their master mechanic (I have been kind of a PITA for this dealership and I feel like they had their master do it so it would be done right and I would stop coming in for a long long time.) haha

The front pipe looks like a heater hose. It starts from inside the firewall and goes across the front of the engine? That is my guess. You might be better off measuring the hose and going to a hardware store and have them cut you a length (make sure to get hose that is capable of handling those temps.) it will save you more money for the headgasket/rebuild kit you will need.


No it's the metal one that goes across the front valvecover/block, behind the dipstick and motor mount, under the ignition wires. Also I forgot to ask, they said that the ABS light wasn't on before, I'm thinking it's a dirty wheel sensor, or the fact that it's running completely off the alternator, because the battery isn't doing anything. Either way from what her mom told me, and what I was observing, I'm willing to bet that the heads are fine, and the gaskets just need replaced,
 
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If the coolant is full, why is the low coolant light on?

This van is acting very much like our 2003 Grand Caravan with low coolant and air in the system.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
If the coolant is full, why is the low coolant light on?

This van is acting very much like our 2003 Grand Caravan with low coolant and air in the system.


After I added coolant and water, it was still on. Drove it a bit, and it went off and stayed off.
 
I think a T-stat, waterpump and flushing out the radiator might resolve the problem. The waterpump isn't too difficult but the T-stat is a bit tricky to access. You can get the T-stat back bolt loose (do not need to completely remove it as the T-stat housing rear bolt hole is slotted) best with a short socket with a built-in swivel 1/4" drive (Sears should have these) and removing the exhaust crossover heatshield (not the pipe just the sheild).

In this situation I would not get deeper into work on this vehicle beyond the waterpump, T-stat and coolant flush.

I think the pipe you are talking about is the heater outlet/return. I would not mess with it unless it was leaking. a little rust on it isn't worth worrying about.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
If the coolant is full, why is the low coolant light on?

This van is acting very much like our 2003 Grand Caravan with low coolant and air in the system.


After I added coolant and water, it was still on. Drove it a bit, and it went off and stayed off.


I think there may be something to this. One poster earlier suggested that it might have been run low on coolant once, and topped-off and parked, making it appear full. After a number of drive cycles (especially if it has a rear HVAC system), it will eventually stabilize. It sounds like it's still doing that. For example, after a coolant drain, I'm supposed to run our Acura's HVAC at full hot and race the engine at 2500 rpm for 3 minutes. Then turn off and check coolant. Then run the HVAC at full cold and race the engine for 3 minutes. Then turn off and check coolant. Rinse and repeat about FOUR times. This is to ensure the system is COMPLETELY burped, front, rear, and in between.

It sounds like that van was or maybe is still low on coolant. After the low coolant light went off, did the temperature gauge on the dash stabilize? I suspect that once the system is truly full of coolant, the temperatures will stabilize.
 
Thanks Eric,

It came with lower intake installed, we didn't disturb it. Had to re-use upper intake, which we found cracked in three places around the three mount bolts in the back. Got a new one of those, too.........

Nick, I think her parents have so much money invested in that van (like I do) they can't just dump it, they want to save it.
 
Nick, those cooling systems are a bit tricky to bleed the first couple of times you do them. DO NOT ASSUME that the first time the coolant drops, you've got the airlock out. Once you've got the main airlock out and the thermostat opens, let it idle for several minutes, then do as Hokiefyd suggested. Also drive it hard (above 3k rom)up the biggest/longest hill you can find. Let it cool and top off the coolant. If you're looking at replacing the radiator, have fun... At the minimum, replace the coolant sensor and radiator cap.
 
Sometimes you will get a low coolant warning when the system is 100% full. Corrosion or sludge can prevent the coolant level sensor from working, and the only solution is to replace the sensor.

That job is usually easy to do, and the part will probably cost no more than $20 unless it is for a European car.
 
Well I'm showing them how to do the job. We are taking our time doing it, no real hurry. They purchased from advance, and are fully aware that there is the possibility that it might still not work properly, or last very long after this. But at least if it does, the big problems with this van will have been fixed, with a used car it would be a complete unknown.

-Autocraft Silver battery
-Fel-Pro headgasket Set & Head bolts
-GMB New water pump
-New Radiator
-Stant thermostat
-6 ACDelco OE spark plugs
-Valvoline Maxlife PSF
-Autocraft Silver Front Brake Pads

It's gonna get Zerex G-05 coolant, and QSGB with a puro classic in the end.

For now, the other night I finished pulling the LIM, and the gasket looks fine. Unfortunately one of the bolts holding the rear VC on is stripped, so I have to try to get it out so I can change the gasket. It doesn't look too bad, but it's not really clean either. I'll keep y'all posted.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Well I'm showing them how to do the job. We are taking our time doing it, no real hurry. They purchased from advance, and are fully aware that there is the possibility that it might still not work properly, or last very long after this. But at least if it does, the big problems with this van will have been fixed, with a used car it would be a complete unknown.

-Autocraft Silver battery
-Fel-Pro headgasket Set & Head bolts
-GMB New water pump
-New Radiator
-Stant thermostat
-6 ACDelco OE spark plugs
-Valvoline Maxlife PSF
-Autocraft Silver Front Brake Pads

It's gonna get Zerex G-05 coolant, and QSGB with a puro classic in the end.

For now, the other night I finished pulling the LIM, and the gasket looks fine. Unfortunately one of the bolts holding the rear VC on is stripped, so I have to try to get it out so I can change the gasket. It doesn't look too bad, but it's not really clean either. I'll keep y'all posted.


Been almost 3 years now, how did the project end up? You never updated us!! LOL
 
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