GM Engines that use Synthetic OIl

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Cannot provide a link but this is from the 01/05 GM Service Line;


quote:

The following 2005 engines have synthetic engine oil installed at the engine plant
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(fig. 7).

2.0L LSJ
3.6L LY7 Cadillac only
4.6L LH2
6.0L LS2

TIP: When servicing these engines, use oil that meets the GM4718M specification, as outlined in the Owners’ Manual. Not all synthetic oils will meet this GM standard.

 
the 2.0L LSJ is I believe the saab derived variant of the ecotec engine design. It has much more stringent oil requirements than that.

JMH
 
Read somewhere here that GM specs the syn on engines that exceed 300deg oil temp during durability testing. It may not just be the engine though, it could be the vehicle it's installed in doesn't have enough space for radiator and oilcooler airflow or sizing, or maybe low sump volume. Our new 5cyl GM's at work supposedly have "special needs" oil spec for the variable valvetiming, at least thats what the dealer tells us. Unocal 76 is getting us the correct spec oil for the same price as our hdeo oil, if that changes the new colorados will be fed 15/40 LOL.
 
I could not post image referred to as Fi.1 but that appears to show a special oil filler cap on these engines like the one on the Corvette's.

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When they start putting a brand name on the cap it's kind of a turn off to me. Makes me think some kind of marketing deal was made. Wonder how much mobil paid to put that logo on? and if they write it off as an advertising expense? Gm probably got the oil for free too, times how many cars are built, win win deal for both of them. Wonder who will be the next OEM to team up with a oil co?
 
quote:

Originally posted by wileyE:
When they start putting a brand name on the cap it's kind of a turn off to me. Makes me think some kind of marketing deal was made. Wonder how much mobil paid to put that logo on? and if they write it off as an advertising expense? Gm probably got the oil for free too, times how many cars are built, win win deal for both of them. Wonder who will be the next OEM to team up with a oil co?

I have a BMW recomends CASTROL oil cap. No biggie, this is common.
 
quote:

Originally posted by wileyE:
Read somewhere here that GM specs the syn on engines that exceed 300deg oil temp during durability testing. It may not just be the engine though, it could be the vehicle it's installed in doesn't have enough space for radiator and oilcooler airflow or sizing, or maybe low sump volume.

The answer is none of the above. It's cheaper to produce a vehicle that overheats it's oil and then require the buyers to use $ynthetic oil than it is to provide adequate oil cooling.
 
quote:

The answer is none of the above. It's cheaper to produce a vehicle that overheats it's oil and then require the buyers to use $ynthetic oil than it is to provide adequate oil cooling.

XS650, care to explain how the hundreds of thousands of LS1 Camaros, Trans Ams and Firebirds survive while specifing nothing more than the common denominator, SL, 5w-30 and 10w-30 regular oils? By your reasoning those cars would be frying oil and locking up engines with a worse reputation than Toyota V6s.
 
WileyE,

As we used to say in New York - Ya Think! ???

This Mobil 1, factory fill stuff is 75% marketing and 25% engineering. Of course GM could use any decent synthetic they choose, however I'd bet that they are getting a sweethart deal from my homeboys at EOM. Of course the advertising value in this benefits both companies - as it does with the Mobil 1, 0w-40 and European Manufacturers.
Why not put a cap on Fords that sez: "Must use Pennzoil in this motor, since Granddaddy did so back in the Great Depression". Of course, you might need a fairly LARGE cap to fit that all in, but I digress...
wink.gif


The algorithm for the GM oil life monitor is calibrated to allow service intervals approximately twice as long when using a GM 4718M quality synthetic, or synthetic blend lubricant. So it's both better for the engine and more convenient for the owner to go this route, when you factor in the $15.00 labor cost at a Quick Lube or Dealership to get the oil changed.

Tooslick
 
tooslick,

I forgot about the OLM, makes sense to use the lube that it was calibrated with. If it doesn't cost much more or isn't hard to find why not?
 
What other synthetic is GM going to endorse? There IS ONLY one real PAO synthetic that is available off the shelf, nation wide. It's more than marketing - Mobil 1 is the "only game in town".
 
quote:

Originally posted by Kernel Potter:
What other synthetic is GM going to endorse? There IS ONLY one real PAO synthetic that is available off the shelf, nation wide. It's more than marketing - Mobil 1 is the "only game in town".

First off, I'm a fan of Mobil 1, and feel that it is best generally available anywhere OTC oil today.

That said, do you really think GM gives a flying fig about the makeup of the oil as long as it meets a performance spec? I don't. My best guess is that Mobil was the cheapest. Barring that, it was the most recognizeable synthetic, and it's brandname indicates it's a synthetic, unlike the rest of the brands out their on the shelf anywhere.
 
Vader,

Mobil is a long term supplier to GM, as well as Mercedes and Porsche, hence Mobil 1 is used as the factory fill in their high performance vehicles.

By contrast, Castrol is a long term supplier to VW/Audi and BMW, hence these manufacturers use a Castrol synthetic as their factory fill.

I wouldn't read any more into it than that....

Ted
 
quote:

XS650, care to explain how the hundreds of thousands of LS1 Camaros, Trans Ams and Firebirds survive while specifing nothing more than the common denominator, SL, 5w-30 and 10w-30 regular oils?

In 2002 model GM installed Mobil 1 in the LS1 Camaro and Firebirds engines. They change over was sometime in Sept of 2001 about the time GM pulled the rug out from the F-Body production. They never promoted that fact but we were told this by Scott Settlemire, assistant brand manager for the F-body.

There are several obvious reasons GM is going to synthetic oils in more and more vehicles.

-less warranty claims for engine problems by controlling the lubricant used. Very few synthetics will meet the spec but if it were dino, the list is 1000's, some of which are less then ideal
-better fuel economy
-longer service life and cost saving to customers
-allows them to design engines that run on the edge that could never do that with many other dino based lubes
-Gives the owner a sense of having the best
-
 
Mike
quote:

There are several obvious reasons GM is going to synthetic oils in more and more vehicles.

-less warranty claims for engine problems by controlling the lubricant used. Very few synthetics will meet the spec but if it were dino, the list is 1000's, some of which are less then ideal
-better fuel economy
-longer service life and cost saving to customers
-allows them to design engines that run on the
edge that could never do that with many other dino based lubes

Vaderss
quote:

First off, I'm a fan of Mobil 1, and feel that it is best generally available anywhere OTC oil today.

That said, do you really think GM gives a flying fig about the makeup of the oil as long as it meets a performance spec? I don't. My best guess is that Mobil was the cheapest. Barring that, it was the most recognizeable synthetic, and it's brandname indicates it's a synthetic, unlike the rest of the brands out their on the shelf anywhere.

-Gives the owner a sense of having the best

Well said. I would have to agree with both of you. Surely some deals were cut as well. It is a win win for both co.s.
 
quote:

quote:There are several obvious reasons GM is going to synthetic oils in more and more vehicles.

-less warranty claims for engine problems by controlling the lubricant used. Very few synthetics will meet the spec but if it were dino, the list is 1000's, some of which are less then ideal
-better fuel economy
-longer service life and cost saving to customers
-allows them to design engines that run on the
edge that could never do that with many other dino based lubes

Vaderss

quote:First off, I'm a fan of Mobil 1, and feel that it is best generally available anywhere OTC oil today.

That said, do you really think GM gives a flying fig about the makeup of the oil as long as it meets a performance spec? I don't. My best guess is that Mobil was the cheapest. Barring that, it was the most recognizeable synthetic, and it's brandname indicates it's a synthetic, unlike the rest of the brands out their on the shelf anywhere.

-Gives the owner a sense of having the best

Well said. I would have to agree with both of you. Surely some deals were cut as well. It is a win win for both co.s

Quite frankly I think GM did give a flying fig what the make-up of the oil is.

What their GM4718M specification gave them is an oil that could withstand extended periods over 300*F without engine/oil trouble and specifying up to 15,000 miles OCI. Mercedes specifies up to 20,000 mile OCI.

Is Mobil 1 part of Mercedes and GMs marketing decisions? Sure it is. But when those companies decided to go with Mobil 1, they allowed extreme engine operating conditions and extended drain intervals that no other oil company can do off the shelf, coast to coast in the USA. Maybe GM and Mercedes just got lucky that their marketing had them married to Mobil?

http://www.gmtechlink.com/images/issues/ref_gds/synthgd.pdf
 
It is really hard to calibrate the oil life monitor for all the "synthetic" oil out there, you get SuperTech, Castrol, Valvoline, Pennzoil, etc that uses GRP 3 and M1, GC, Redline, etc.

Designing with SuperTech in mind may hinder the ability to built it with more HP or Torque, or longer OCI.

M1 is pretty close to a benchmark on PAO's standard today, they are popular, widely available, and not expensive compare to other real PAO. Sure there are others, but why settle for the possibility that someone might put ST in there and run it 15k OCI by stupidity?
 
I think that any oil that has passed this GM4718M can do a 15k OCI because it is a requirement to meet this cert or am I wrong. By the why Pennzoil Platinum is not group III.
 
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