Honda Ultimate 0w20 6,765 mi 2011 Civic 1.8

[gpshumway]

Here's a UOA of the new Conoco Phillips made Honda Genuine Ultimate Full Synthetic 0w20 (API SN), including viscosity index.

I previously did a VOA on this very batch of this oil here.

This oil started out quite thin and then sheared about 10%. This time Blackstone didn't forget the VI measurement and it came back at 175 which is about what we believe the virgin oil was. It's good to see that the VI remains high even after some use and shearing.

I'm not really concerned about the high Al in this UOA, if it persists in the next UOA I'll start to worry. I won't be continuing to use this oil, it's expensive, hard to find and offers no benefit over the readily available M1 AFE 0w20.

The oil was changed with API SM Idemitsu 0w20 from Subaru which I believe to be the same as the old API SM Honda Genuine 0w20. We'll see how that performs.

The other UOA on the sheet is the factory fill. Enjoy.

 

[chubbs1]

Blackstone's own comment on the accuracy of their VI test makes me really confident in their lab work.


Either way, thanks for testing. I wish Honda would not have changed their formula.

 

[Unearthed]

I know thin is in, but this shearing is why I am uncomfortable extending my drains using an xw-20. As my Honda comes to the end of its warranty, I think I will try 10-12k with a UOA at the end.

With xw-30

 

[oiltard]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Blackstone's own comment on the accuracy of their VI test makes me really confident in their lab work.



I think they were referring to not having a reference range to compare it to, not questioning the accuracy of the test.

 

[addyguy]

I know its a young engine, but even during break-in, Honda's don't normally shed THAT much Al. Also, it went up from your last sample, NOT down, like it should.

I'd say you have a problem...I'd be worried!

 

[Artem]

I wouldn't worry much until the next sample.

 

[gpshumway]

Originally Posted By: Unearthed
I know thin is in, but this shearing is why I am uncomfortable extending my drains using an xw-20. As my Honda comes to the end of its warranty, I think I will try 10-12k with a UOA at the end.

With xw-30

No need to hide, I'm with you. I'm uncomfortable with oils that end up much under 8 cst, especially considering this very same engine specifies an ACEA A3 0w30 oil in Europe. A 7.5 cst group V oil with a 2.7 HTHS would be a different matter, but < 7.7 cst with these group III/IV oils scares me.

 

[dmk]

Not fully related to the OP, but is the Honda full syn the same as Acura's full syn?

 

[CATERHAM]

The AL level is higher than one would like but so is the Si.
Any air cleaner leaks?

Don't fixate on the KV100 figure. This oil is no lighter than any other HTHSV 2.6cP oil and it has only lost 8% of it's virgin viscosity which is not bad.

Glad to hear you're now running the Suburu (Idemitsu) SM 0W-20.
Looking forward to the UOA on that to see how it compares to the Honda (Idemitsu) 0W-20 version.

 

[gpshumway]

I'm presuming, as is Blackstone, that the Si is from RTV Sealants washing out of this very new engine. I doubt there is an intake leak, though I might check for something obvious.

 

[Indydriver]

I'm in a similar place as you with my daughter's Accord V6 below. Changed the FF at 6300 with Honda full syn 0W-20. The SN Honda oil certainly looks unremarkable in both VOA and your UOA. I'm really wondering what the big reduction in moly will do long term to the engine, especially the VCM V6 which has had a history of oil consumption issues and was modified with new control rings and moly-impregnated piston skirts for 2011 in an apparent attempt to solve those complaints.

I have a stash of SM Toyota (ultra high moly) I WAS planning on using in the Honda but we are in the process of replacing the 12 yo Dodge minivan with a new Toyota Sienna which BTW, comes with 0W-20 and a 10,000 mile OE OCI recommendation (!).

 

[gpshumway]

I don't know much about the VCM engine, but as I said above, the R18 in my Civic gets ACEA A3 0w30 in Europe. That's two steps thicker than the 5w20 recommended in the US.

My thoughts are that CAFE biases the recommendation toward thin oil in the US, and autobahn driving, long OCIs (20k KM), and trailer towing (caravans!) would bias it toward thicker oil in Europe. So, once I'm satisfied I won't need to make a warranty claim on the engine, I'll likely split the difference and use an energy conserving (ACEA A5/B5) 30wt.

Some research into global applications of the VCM engine and their related oil recommendations may steer you in the same direction. A thicker oil certainly wouldn't exacerbate oil burning.

Does the engine burn any oil now? My take on the oil burning problem is it's mostly due to gentle break in resulting in poor ring seal. The problem is compounded by the low tension rings and 20wt oils all the manufacturers are moving towards in the name of fuel economy. It's further compounded in powerful cars like a V6 Accord where it's relatively easy to never hit 100% load on the engine. Cars like my 140hp Civic need all their power just to merge into freeway traffic and are therefore less likely to get a "granny" break in.

Just my $.02.

 

[k24a4]

I was gentle on break-in with my 4cyl Accord and she hasn't burned a drop of oil in almost 100,000 miles, except, if I remember correctly, when she was breaking-in. I added 1/2 qt of Castrol semi-syn then.

I have to agree with those who have stated that those wear numbers look high for a Honda 4cyl, even though she is still breaking in. Please keep us posted if you have more info. Could it be lab error?

 

[gpshumway]

By no means do I think that a gentle break-in guarantees an engine that burns oil, it just makes it more likely.

The high Al is possibly lab error, but I don't have any more oil to test, so we'll just have to wait until the next change.

 

[Indydriver]

Our VCM has not burned one drop of oil through 9500 miles. Maybe Honda really fixed it with the '11 tweaks or maybe we're lucky or maybe its just too early. I will also note that many of the problem VCMs seem to be driven for long stretches on the highway where cylinders are deactivated for long periods allowing differential cooling to occur. Our car has been driven 98% city so VCM activations are frequent but short lived.

Here's a good one to consider: Your FF UOA shows 9ppm CU. Our VCM threw off over 270ppm of CU after 6300 miles on the FF. How would you interpret those results!

The jury may still be out on the ultimate reliability of this V6 but I'm leary. Note below that we did not buy an Odyssey (VCM) when it came time to replace our minivan.

 

[gpshumway]

Hmm, that is quite a lot of copper. Copper based RTV sealant not used in the R18? Could it be bronze bushings on the piston end of the con-rod? Could it be a copper tube oil cooler?