0w-40 or 5w-40 for hot summers in audi with turbos

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Garak
The worst "problem" with the Audi was that it was too easy to change oil on. Everything was right up front, just aft of the bumper, and one can have the filter off and the oil draining in no time, and with no mess.

At the time (and I don't know how much better it's gotten), the Audi/VW dealerships up here weren't using the right oil, even when a VW specification was given. They'd put normal Castrol 5w-30 (Syntec if you were lucky) in TDIs and so forth. Assuming my Audi had been dealer serviced here from the start, I have my doubts that they had any 15w-40 in stock, let alone a 0w-40 or 5w-40. It probably got GTX 5w-30 all along. It wouldn't have been any different at a quick lube place. It certainly didn't blow the motor up, but it certainly wouldn't have been optimal, nor would it have been in accordance with Audi's recommendations.

There's nothing wrong with the cheapest possible solution. One just has to ensure that the solution fits, and many don't. We've all heard stories here about people getting 10w-30 in engines speced for 5w-20, and the reverse.


Well, my friend was doing 10min oil changes with A4 1.8T, and it lasted aroud 70k! Sludge all over!

 

[NewYorkBuck]

Gents - read a lot to this point and if I can add my two cents.

I have two cars. The first is a 2006 Jetta TDI. The second is a 2004 911 Turbo. Members of both sites have much to say on whats the best oil for each.

Re the TDI, much has been written about cam failures and using the 5W-30 version of 505.01. Most guys on the site have completely abandoned the 505.01 standard and moved to either TDT or Rotella T6, 5W-40. I have as well. Empirically, it seems that cams have fared better with these heavier oils.

Re the 911TT, the chalk is since the switch to SM rated oils, to stay away from the factory recommended M1 0W-40. Instead of camshafts as with the VW, what 911 owners are afraid of is the intermediate shaft, or IMS. The problem is less prevalent with the turbos (which retained the very strong Mezger design is this evolution), but failures still happen. If your IMS dumps in these cars, you're looking at a 20-40k repair bill. One of the gurus on the site who tunes and rebuilds these engines got the ball rolling. He stated that the new oil formulations (SM) took out much of the metal conditioners (zddp, etc) in interest of EPA compliance. His (and others) recommendation was to stick w diesel oil - Delvac, TDT, or Rotella T6. If a gasser oil was still necessary to make you sleep, he said M1 5W-50. The 0W-40 just doesnt seem to hold up as well anymore to the very strenuous turbo environment. Many, many guys on the site have reported a much quieter IMS since switching to a diesel formulation. I have as well, with a similar experience. Dare I say that most guys who post are now running a diesel oil in their $40,000 engines.

The uptake from this - I would be hesitant to run a thin SM (or later) oil in a demanding environment like a diesel or hot running turbo.

Best of luck.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: NewYorkBuck
Gents - read a lot to this point and if I can add my two cents.

I have two cars. The first is a 2006 Jetta TDI. The second is a 2004 911 Turbo. Members of both sites have much to say on whats the best oil for each.

Re the TDI, much has been written about cam failures and using the 5W-30 version of 505.01. Most guys on the site have completely abandoned the 505.01 standard and moved to either TDT or Rotella T6, 5W-40. I have as well. Empirically, it seems that cams have fared better with these heavier oils.

Re the 911TT, the chalk is since the switch to SM rated oils, to stay away from the factory recommended M1 0W-40. Instead of camshafts as with the VW, what 911 owners are afraid of is the intermediate shaft, or IMS. The problem is less prevalent with the turbos (which retained the very strong Mezger design is this evolution), but failures still happen. If your IMS dumps in these cars, you're looking at a 20-40k repair bill. One of the gurus on the site who tunes and rebuilds these engines got the ball rolling. He stated that the new oil formulations (SM) took out much of the metal conditioners (zddp, etc) in interest of EPA compliance. His (and others) recommendation was to stick w diesel oil - Delvac, TDT, or Rotella T6. If a gasser oil was still necessary to make you sleep, he said M1 5W-50. The 0W-40 just doesnt seem to hold up as well anymore to the very strenuous turbo environment. Many, many guys on the site have reported a much quieter IMS since switching to a diesel formulation. I have as well, with a similar experience. Dare I say that most guys who post are now running a diesel oil in their $40,000 engines.

The uptake from this - I would be hesitant to run a thin SM (or later) oil in a demanding environment like a diesel or hot running turbo.

Best of luck.


Good point!
I would not mind running T6 in CC 2.0T, problem is it is still under warranty.
Personally I am fan of GC, however I am affraid it is thin for fuel diluting monster. I might be wrong.
I still have not changed oil since I bought car like 1500 miles ago. It has 30,500.
It seems some people favor M1 some GC. I used GC in 1.8T. GREAT oil. But now leanng toward M1. But it seems it is not as good as before?

 

[dparm]

I prefer M1 for the higher viscosity index, API SN rating, and slightly higher HTHS of 3.8.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Well, my friend was doing 10min oil changes with A4 1.8T, and it lasted aroud 70k! Sludge all over!


Well, I took my time, and changed it more often than recommended. Heck, on the taxi fleet, I changed every 10,000 km with conventional 10w-30 from the late 1970s to mid 1990s. Those, however, hardly ever shut off, so the oil was always up to temperatures. They were on LPG, so no fuel dilution, either.

I suspect the 12,500 km OCIs would have been readily obtainable with a better oil than a simple conventional PCMO. It might have been doable with the 15w-40 HDEO or the Delvac 1 or GC. For my driving style and habits, I certainly wouldn't have been comfortable with that interval on a regular 5w-30, at least not 5w-30s of the era.

 

[fpracha]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Well, my friend was doing 10min oil changes with A4 1.8T, and it lasted aroud 70k! Sludge all over!

I suspect the 12,500 km OCIs would have been readily obtainable with a better oil than a simple conventional PCMO. It might have been doable with the 15w-40 HDEO or the Delvac 1 or GC. For my driving style and habits, I certainly wouldn't have been comfortable with that interval on a regular 5w-30, at least not 5w-30s of the era.
Is this also true for today's modern 5w20 & 5w30 oils, or would you rather be more comfortable with today's 0w20 and 0w30 supposedly higher refined oils ? Or woudl you rather stick with a 15w40 and 5w40 grade ?

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Sigh...your compatriots on the Audi forums are, well, ignorant about oils...

If the 0W40 was thinner than the 5W40 at operating temperature, it would be...wait for it...a 0W30!!

The M1 0W40 is a great choice....don't listen to them...


Mobil 1 0w40 might lose some viscosity compaired to 5w40, however...it stay's within the 40w range.

 

[NewYorkBuck]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: NewYorkBuck
Gents - read a lot to this point and if I can add my two cents.

I have two cars. The first is a 2006 Jetta TDI. The second is a 2004 911 Turbo. Members of both sites have much to say on whats the best oil for each.

Re the TDI, much has been written about cam failures and using the 5W-30 version of 505.01. Most guys on the site have completely abandoned the 505.01 standard and moved to either TDT or Rotella T6, 5W-40. I have as well. Empirically, it seems that cams have fared better with these heavier oils.

Re the 911TT, the chalk is since the switch to SM rated oils, to stay away from the factory recommended M1 0W-40. Instead of camshafts as with the VW, what 911 owners are afraid of is the intermediate shaft, or IMS. The problem is less prevalent with the turbos (which retained the very strong Mezger design is this evolution), but failures still happen. If your IMS dumps in these cars, you're looking at a 20-40k repair bill. One of the gurus on the site who tunes and rebuilds these engines got the ball rolling. He stated that the new oil formulations (SM) took out much of the metal conditioners (zddp, etc) in interest of EPA compliance. His (and others) recommendation was to stick w diesel oil - Delvac, TDT, or Rotella T6. If a gasser oil was still necessary to make you sleep, he said M1 5W-50. The 0W-40 just doesnt seem to hold up as well anymore to the very strenuous turbo environment. Many, many guys on the site have reported a much quieter IMS since switching to a diesel formulation. I have as well, with a similar experience. Dare I say that most guys who post are now running a diesel oil in their $40,000 engines.

The uptake from this - I would be hesitant to run a thin SM (or later) oil in a demanding environment like a diesel or hot running turbo.

Best of luck.


Good point!
I would not mind running T6 in CC 2.0T, problem is it is still under warranty.
Personally I am fan of GC, however I am affraid it is thin for fuel diluting monster. I might be wrong.
I still have not changed oil since I bought car like 1500 miles ago. It has 30,500.
It seems some people favor M1 some GC. I used GC in 1.8T. GREAT oil. But now leanng toward M1. But it seems it is not as good as before?


One more thing I forgot to add. The VW guys were all adamant about maintaining the 10k OCI. Seems like the oil actually performed better after 5k in the diesels. The commonly cited conjecture is the soot in suspension.

However, that is not the case with the Pturbo. Almost NO ONE suggests to stay with the factory recommended 10k OCI. Most guys do it at 5k, and some say 3k.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: NewYorkBuck
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: NewYorkBuck
Gents - read a lot to this point and if I can add my two cents.

I have two cars. The first is a 2006 Jetta TDI. The second is a 2004 911 Turbo. Members of both sites have much to say on whats the best oil for each.

Re the TDI, much has been written about cam failures and using the 5W-30 version of 505.01. Most guys on the site have completely abandoned the 505.01 standard and moved to either TDT or Rotella T6, 5W-40. I have as well. Empirically, it seems that cams have fared better with these heavier oils.

Re the 911TT, the chalk is since the switch to SM rated oils, to stay away from the factory recommended M1 0W-40. Instead of camshafts as with the VW, what 911 owners are afraid of is the intermediate shaft, or IMS. The problem is less prevalent with the turbos (which retained the very strong Mezger design is this evolution), but failures still happen. If your IMS dumps in these cars, you're looking at a 20-40k repair bill. One of the gurus on the site who tunes and rebuilds these engines got the ball rolling. He stated that the new oil formulations (SM) took out much of the metal conditioners (zddp, etc) in interest of EPA compliance. His (and others) recommendation was to stick w diesel oil - Delvac, TDT, or Rotella T6. If a gasser oil was still necessary to make you sleep, he said M1 5W-50. The 0W-40 just doesnt seem to hold up as well anymore to the very strenuous turbo environment. Many, many guys on the site have reported a much quieter IMS since switching to a diesel formulation. I have as well, with a similar experience. Dare I say that most guys who post are now running a diesel oil in their $40,000 engines.

The uptake from this - I would be hesitant to run a thin SM (or later) oil in a demanding environment like a diesel or hot running turbo.

Best of luck.


Good point!
I would not mind running T6 in CC 2.0T, problem is it is still under warranty.
Personally I am fan of GC, however I am affraid it is thin for fuel diluting monster. I might be wrong.
I still have not changed oil since I bought car like 1500 miles ago. It has 30,500.
It seems some people favor M1 some GC. I used GC in 1.8T. GREAT oil. But now leanng toward M1. But it seems it is not as good as before?


One more thing I forgot to add. The VW guys were all adamant about maintaining the 10k OCI. Seems like the oil actually performed better after 5k in the diesels. The commonly cited conjecture is the soot in suspension.

However, that is not the case with the Pturbo. Almost NO ONE suggests to stay with the factory recommended 10k OCI. Most guys do it at 5k, and some say 3k.

When I am in Bosnia I drive Skoda Octavia 1.9TDI which requires 505.01.
Change interval overthere is around 10,000 miles since PD engines were introduced.
In the summer it was always either Castrol 5W40 or Shell 5W40 (few times Mobil 5W40) and in the winter 5W30.
No issues at all ever!
When I lived there i owned Lancia 2.4JTD (5cyl turbo-diesel with common rail) and was using Sellenia oil. I do not know what Italians mixing in that oil, but that is some super stuff that I would buy here right now no matter the price.
Now, there is an issue of oils here. It is true that oils in Europe are better due to the synthetic base. But they are much mre expensive. I do not know is there any difference between M1 0W40 for gas engines here and Europe, although they meet all same specs, but price in Europe is like 4-5 times higher.
I am doing oil changes on CC every 5K, 10K is too much considering fuel dilution, not that good quality of the U.S gasoline and short trips.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: fpracha
Is this also true for today's modern 5w20 & 5w30 oils, or would you rather be more comfortable with today's 0w20 and 0w30 supposedly higher refined oils ? Or woudl you rather stick with a 15w40 and 5w40 grade ?


I'd certainly have a lot more faith in an SN/GF-5 oil (for long drains) than an API/ILSAC oil contemporary to the car's vintage. With a synthetic, for sure. The only thing that kept me away from a 5w-30 PCMO (except in the winter) was that it consumed 30 grade oils. The consumption wasn't noticeable with the 40 grades.

If I were driving it now, given my driving style, I'd probably be comfortable using an SN/GF-5 5w-30, assuming consumption wasn't an issue. 5w-20 is also an acceptable winter grade according to its chart. A 0w-30, like GC, would have been great. I tried it, but had some consumption issues with it. I didn't go through a few OCIs with it to let it work itself out, since the price skyrocketed here, so I went with the much cheaper 15w-40.

I realize conventionals have come a long way, and I use them almost exclusively, but there are certainly times and places for synthetic. Synthetic might have been "better" for it, but it's not like I drove it hard or did overly long OCIs (I cut the factory recommendation in half). I can't say what the previous owner, did, however.

My friend who has it now is using RP 10w-40, and I've convinced him that will be okay for 10,000 km. He was changing conventional out at 5,000 km, using 10w-30 GTX for the winter.

 

[Vincenzo_f]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
About 7500 miles.
Pretty long on 1991 oils.
Given the oils of the time and the fact that the Audi had a turbo, I would guess that a current dual rated 15W-40 would
be fine in a current VAG turbo.

Well, maybe in hot climates. However, turbos today are much smaller, faster, and they require instant lubrication etc.
When I lived in Europe, I drove Lancia Lybra 2.4 JTD. Amazing diesel engine (5cyl). I used always Sellenia oil. I know that whoever used Sellenia oil 10W40 or 5W40 it was long lived engine. Once people switched to 15W40 of some other mfg, turbos would fail and other problems would develop.
I really do not know why that was the case, but it was big deal to use that particular oil. nd it was not cheap. For 10W40 it was $17 per one liter, and around $25 for 5W40!


Selenia is a good oil, but overpriced and sure not better than a Mobil 1 0w40. In my old Alfa engine (1.9 JTD), Alfa service advised always Selenia oil, but i used always other brands (Shell, Castrol, etc.) and, after 300.000 km the engine is still ok.

For hot summer (i live in Sounth italy) always used 10w40 or 5w40 in my old Alfa engine.
In my actual Honda Civic FK3 (turbo diesel engine) i just started to use Mobil 1 0w40 all year and at 130000km the engine is ok. I think that with Mobil 1 you get proper protection.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Vincenzo_f
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
About 7500 miles.
Pretty long on 1991 oils.
Given the oils of the time and the fact that the Audi had a turbo, I would guess that a current dual rated 15W-40 would
be fine in a current VAG turbo.

Well, maybe in hot climates. However, turbos today are much smaller, faster, and they require instant lubrication etc.
When I lived in Europe, I drove Lancia Lybra 2.4 JTD. Amazing diesel engine (5cyl). I used always Sellenia oil. I know that whoever used Sellenia oil 10W40 or 5W40 it was long lived engine. Once people switched to 15W40 of some other mfg, turbos would fail and other problems would develop.
I really do not know why that was the case, but it was big deal to use that particular oil. nd it was not cheap. For 10W40 it was $17 per one liter, and around $25 for 5W40!


Selenia is a good oil, but overpriced and sure not better than a Mobil 1 0w40. In my old Alfa engine (1.9 JTD), Alfa service advised always Selenia oil, but i used always other brands (Shell, Castrol, etc.) and, after 300.000 km the engine is still ok.

For hot summer (i live in Sounth italy) always used 10w40 or 5w40 in my old Alfa engine.
In my actual Honda Civic FK3 (turbo diesel engine) i just started to use Mobil 1 0w40 all year and at 130000km the engine is ok. I think that with Mobil 1 you get proper protection.


Yeah, Mobil1 is very, very good oil. Generally in Europe oils are very good, especially if they are full synthetic.
I do not know why, but that Sellenia oil was something else. Even when you pour in engine it sounds differently.
However, it is overpriced!
I use now in my CC in U.S Mobil 1 0W40. Before I was using in Passat 1.8T Castrol 0W30 , also amazing oil. So I will see how Mobil1 performs in CC and maybe try Castrol 0W30 and then decide which one to run.

 

[JohnnyMerrill]

Originally Posted By: Vincenzo_f
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
About 7500 miles.
Pretty long on 1991 oils.
Given the oils of the time and the fact that the Audi had a turbo, I would guess that a current dual rated 15W-40 would
be fine in a current VAG turbo.

Well, maybe in hot climates. However, turbos today are much smaller, faster, and they require instant lubrication etc.
When I lived in Europe, I drove Lancia Lybra 2.4 JTD. Amazing diesel engine (5cyl). I used always Sellenia oil. I know that whoever used Sellenia oil 10W40 or 5W40 it was long lived engine. Once people switched to 15W40 of some other mfg, turbos would fail and other problems would develop.
I really do not know why that was the case, but it was big deal to use that particular oil. nd it was not cheap. For 10W40 it was $17 per one liter, and around $25 for 5W40!


Selenia is a good oil, but overpriced and sure not better than a Mobil 1 0w40. In my old Alfa engine (1.9 JTD), Alfa service advised always Selenia oil, but i used always other brands (Shell, Castrol, etc.) and, after 300.000 km the engine is still ok.

For hot summer (i live in Sounth italy) always used 10w40 or 5w40 in my old Alfa engine.
In my actual Honda Civic FK3 (turbo diesel engine) i just started to use Mobil 1 0w40 all year and at 130000km the engine is ok. I think that with Mobil 1 you get proper protection.

If the manual calls for (a good Group III or better) 5W40, then dino 15W40 is as good as the filling of a cannolo or even vaseline. Especially at 125F outside temp with 12.5k OCIs.

That aside, here's one: Both Shell and Mobil have a 0W40. But Shell also has a Helix Ultra 5W40 (of which we know to be the preferred lubricant of Ferrari for one reason or another).

Suppose New England or warmer climate, why would you pick the 0W40 over 5W40?

 

[magnus308]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
audia6 - Welcome to BITOG

You will be best served by staying with M1 0W-40


+1 on that!
Its a great oil for many gasoline turbo applications.

 

[Olas]

The winter pump ability makes no difference here, resistance to high temp oxidation & evaporation along with a good strong HTHS would be my primary concerns for that engine in those conditions..

 

[magnus308]

Originally Posted By: JohnnyMerrill

If the manual calls for (a good Group III or better) 5W40, then dino 15W40 is as good as the filling of a cannolo or even vaseline. Especially at 125F outside temp with 12.5k OCIs.
That aside, here's one: Both Shell and Mobil have a 0W40. But Shell also has a Helix Ultra 5W40 (of which we know to be the preferred lubricant of Ferrari for one reason or another).


The Audi gasoline turbo engines are quite common here in Europe and i dont think anyone who have some knowledge about those engines would even consider to use a dino oil.
It would just be crazy to do it..