Alignment time?

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weebl

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Need to keep my wife happy - she drives this vehicle daily and is now complaining that it is pulling to one side and takes a bit of effort to keep in a straight line. (I forget which way she says it is pulling).

The vehicle is a 2006 Toyota Sienna, 130,000 km (81,000 mi) on the clock. Never had a wheel alignment done. Current tires are the winter set (been in use 2 winters already) - General Altimax Arctics on lugcentric steelies. No visible uneven wear patterns.

The old all seasons (taken off back in October) have very slight increased wear on the inner (I think) edge, but not what I'd call unreasonable for having gotten a full life out of.

I can't notice this pull, except for an extremely slight, almost imperceptible pull to the right at freeway speeds (took my hands off and noticed a slight tendency to the right).

It is also finally changeover time here now and I have brand new Michelin Destinys on hubcentric aluminum wheels. Yes, winter lingers here for far too long.

My suspicions are it is just radial pull. I want to confirm this by putting on the new tires over Easter.

I am also leary of getting an alignment at a chain should the new set of tires not eliminate the issue, having read some people's experiences on here. What do I look for in a shop?

Thoughts or comments?
 
Get an alignment by a one man shop.

I worked at a tire store and we didn't do camber, because "it's not adjustable". Nevermind that you can buy a "camber kit" and make it adjustable.

One guy who hangs out his shingle and stakes his reputation on alignments will do you better than any chain.

The chain pays their guys flat rate, which leads to mediocre results on something requiring precision and finesse like this.
 
If you have a good dealership, even that works well sometimes. When we got our Acura, I had the dealer install the camber kits for the rear (which are adjustable upper control arms) and a four-wheel alignment. They set the front toe to my specs (within the allowable tolerance) and centered all other settings. They didn't charge much more than anyone else's four-wheel alignment; I think it was 70 bucks.
 
Eljefino knows what he's talking about.

If you end up going to a chain, a pair of camber kits laying on the driver's seat might help. If they turn out to be unnecessary you can always return them.
 
Or you can just fix the toe, since almost every car has fixed camber anyhow and usually its never a problem.

Unless the ball joints are going bad or something and that is a major concern. Tie rods, too.

But I adjust my toe with a piece of string, so, I'm unique like that. Never had a problem though
laugh.gif
 
Okay, so I booked myself for Thursday next week. Took a bit of searching. Nothing other than the big chains in my neighbourhood, and nothing near work either. In fact, a shop specializing in just alignments seems to be tough to find around here (a few, but not many). One of them had a poor reputation, and in fact, reading on this one in a Subaru forum led me to where I booked. It's actually a local tire chain, but there is one technician mentioned by name in particular, who does amazing alignments according to most Edmonton members of that forum. Will do to your specs if you bring them in, or else he will go by what he has. And it's $115 all-in (provided of course no parts needed). Best dealer price I found was $110 pre tax, and I don't even know if they are any good or not.

Now, does it matter how soon before I put on my new tires before taking it there? I'm thinking this weekend, I'll put it on, and from when they go on until the appointment, shouldn't put on more than about 200 km (125 miles).
 
Originally Posted By: weebl
.........Now, does it matter how soon before I put on my new tires before taking it there? I'm thinking this weekend, I'll put it on, and from when they go on until the appointment, shouldn't put on more than about 200 km (125 miles).


The faster the better, but your plan is fine.
 
How could camber be a problem with adjustable types, but not a problem with fixed types?
It is or it isn't a problem.

Winter tires never felt good to me - maybe they are the problem. Put the good ones on and see what's up.
A slight drift down a road crown is normal and good. But it should work the same BOTH ways.

At 130 k, get an alignment, or at least a printout of what is actually going on.
 
Last edited:
Plans may be set back at least a week now. While it was 16C (61F) today, we are supposed to get nearly a foot of snow in the next couple of days. Winter needs to leave already.
 
I had the dealer do an alignment on the Honda Fit yesterday. They charged $90 (normally $99), which is a bit steep for a thrust-angle alignment, but the job was done correctly on the first visit.

Usually for Firestone, it takes me 3 visits to get a "Passable" alignment. Not this time, it was done correctly on the first visit. Toe was set to preferred settings, steering wheel was perfectly level.

Alignment is work that requires some precision. It is not as "basic" as changing oil.
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
How could camber be a problem with adjustable types, but not a problem with fixed types?
It is or it isn't a problem.

Winter tires never felt good to me - maybe they are the problem. Put the good ones on and see what's up.
A slight drift down a road crown is normal and good. But it should work the same BOTH ways.

At 130 k, get an alignment, or at least a printout of what is actually going on.


Camber isn't nearly as much of a contributing factor in tire wear or handling as properly set toe is.
 
Depends on how bad thee camber is off.

When I lifted and started wheeling my Cherokee a lot, I never paid attention to the alignment ... it was toed in a lot and wore the tires pretty bad.

My taurus "ate" a set of 60k miles in 20 because it had camber issues. it wasso bad you could see the negative camber. Tried to get it aligned, but the bushings, ball joints and who knows wshat else made it unalignable.
 
Depends on how bad thee camber is off.

When I lifted and started wheeling my Cherokee a lot, I never paid attention to the alignment ... it was toed in a lot and wore the tires pretty bad.

My taurus "ate" a set of 60k miles in 20 because it had camber issues. it wasso bad you could see the negative camber. Tried to get it aligned, but the bushings, ball joints and who knows wshat else made it unalignable.
 
Toe is a multiplier for camber. A little camber with little toe is OK - a little camber with a lot of toe is a problem - and a lot of camber with a lot of toe is a HUGE problem.
 
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Toe is a multiplier for camber. A little camber with little toe is OK - a little camber with a lot of toe is a problem - and a lot of camber with a lot of toe is a HUGE problem.


That's one way to look at it. With most people concerned mainly about wear I take a different angle. The lower the aspect ratio of the tire, the more important camber becomes. 35 aspect ratio tires can be wiped in 5,000 miles by camber that would run equivalent tires in a 45 aspect ratio a good 25,000 or more miles. In the more common 50 to 60 aspect ratios, there's a lot more wiggle room in the camber, but toe becomes a big deal and .15 can be a big issue. At the pizza cutter end (75 to 85 aspect ratio) camber doesn't wear anything but toe is still pretty important. Underinflation becomes a huge problem here and especially in combination with toe. 2psi underinflation with toe being way out at 0.65 degrees is roughly equivalent to underinflation of 7 psi and toe off be 0.15 degrees.
 
These are the Toyota specs for this vehicle, mine is the FWD with 16" tires: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?7hk25ecia3hwxx8

Obviously a range is specified for each measurement but where within each range do I want to be so it is optimal? Or possibly outside of spec? I understand the tech I'm booked with will do whatever I specify.
 
Originally Posted By: weebl
These are the Toyota specs for this vehicle, mine is the FWD with 16" tires: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?7hk25ecia3hwxx8

Obviously a range is specified for each measurement but where within each range do I want to be so it is optimal? Or possibly outside of spec? I understand the tech I'm booked with will do whatever I specify.

You want it to be at the center of the spec.

I cannot view the link, but in the Toyota service manual for my Prius, it lists the optimal alignment spec along with the +/- amount.
 
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