TOTAL Quartz Energy 9000 5W40
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Originally Posted By: clevel
So I was set to go with the Toyota 0w20 for $7.25/quart (Need six quarts) however, I just found Mobil 1 AFE 0w20 in a 5 quart jug for $32.99 (Includes M 1 filter) with 25% off an additionl quart. Total cost for M 1 with filter would be about $40 + tax. Toyota cost would be $42 + tax + filter or about $15 more using the same M 1 filter. Even though I don't want cost to be the only factor, does it make for sense to go with the Mobil 1 AFE due to the deal from AAP?
The Pennzoil Platinum 0W20 specs seem pretty close to the Mobil 1 AFE 0w20 specs .....given PP tends to go sale pretty often, it might be another low(er) cost option worthy of consideration.
So I was set to go with the Toyota 0w20 for $7.25/quart (Need six quarts) however, I just found Mobil 1 AFE 0w20 in a 5 quart jug for $32.99 (Includes M 1 filter) with 25% off an additionl quart. Total cost for M 1 with filter would be about $40 + tax. Toyota cost would be $42 + tax + filter or about $15 more using the same M 1 filter. Even though I don't want cost to be the only factor, does it make for sense to go with the Mobil 1 AFE due to the deal from AAP?
The Pennzoil Platinum 0W20 specs seem pretty close to the Mobil 1 AFE 0w20 specs .....given PP tends to go sale pretty often, it might be another low(er) cost option worthy of consideration.
Originally Posted By: clevel
So would you go with the M1 over the Toyota based on the cost structure I described?
AlI I know about the Toyota based 0W20 is that it has a very high VI.
It'd be helpful if we had the other technical specifications for the Toyota based 0W20. .......... .
So would you go with the M1 over the Toyota based on the cost structure I described?
AlI I know about the Toyota based 0W20 is that it has a very high VI.
It'd be helpful if we had the other technical specifications for the Toyota based 0W20. .......... .
Originally Posted By: Terra_Nova
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
To my way of thinking, unless a synthetic oil has a VI greater than 165 it's a poor value.
Unless that VI is achieved with low grade VII's and PPA's. To me, this is the weakness of using VI as a guide for choosing motor oils.
Is it reasonable to assume that in order for Toyota to get a 0W20 VI of 216, this very high VI was achieved primarily by mean of the heavy use of Viscosity Index Improver additives ?
So, if you had a Group 3 base stock, the additives would help drive the VI to such a high number of 216 ?
And I suppose with an Amsoil oil with a Group 4 base stock, the inherent nature of the Group already has a naturally high VI to begin with and may not degrade as quickly as an additive enhanced VI might.?
Could a Group 3 base stock with such a high VI, derived primarily ( I assume ) from additives sustain that VI spec over an extended drain interval in your view ?
Welcome your thoughts.
We don't really know, but Toyota must use a very good grade of light Grp III. Of course they also use a good VII package. Yes of course these enhance the VI. I would like to see a 3rd party lab measure the Toyota oil.
Amsoil uses a Group IV and V and very little VII and no PPA's.
The one or two Toyota PCMO UOA's posted have not been run long enough, nor is there sufficient data to make the determination of how it does in extended drains. It's a good oil on all accounts, I am by no means putting it down.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
To my way of thinking, unless a synthetic oil has a VI greater than 165 it's a poor value.
Unless that VI is achieved with low grade VII's and PPA's. To me, this is the weakness of using VI as a guide for choosing motor oils.
Is it reasonable to assume that in order for Toyota to get a 0W20 VI of 216, this very high VI was achieved primarily by mean of the heavy use of Viscosity Index Improver additives ?
So, if you had a Group 3 base stock, the additives would help drive the VI to such a high number of 216 ?
And I suppose with an Amsoil oil with a Group 4 base stock, the inherent nature of the Group already has a naturally high VI to begin with and may not degrade as quickly as an additive enhanced VI might.?
Could a Group 3 base stock with such a high VI, derived primarily ( I assume ) from additives sustain that VI spec over an extended drain interval in your view ?
Welcome your thoughts.
We don't really know, but Toyota must use a very good grade of light Grp III. Of course they also use a good VII package. Yes of course these enhance the VI. I would like to see a 3rd party lab measure the Toyota oil.
Amsoil uses a Group IV and V and very little VII and no PPA's.
The one or two Toyota PCMO UOA's posted have not been run long enough, nor is there sufficient data to make the determination of how it does in extended drains. It's a good oil on all accounts, I am by no means putting it down.
It's certainly an interesting oil, much like the Sustina with a VI of 229. These oils are designed for maximum fuel efficiency.
For longer drain intervals, I still think using little/no VI's is probably best. However, there are some good ling drain oils that do use VI's such as M1 0w40.
I am guessing Amsoil 0w20 uses little to none because that oil does not drop any viscosity. Makes sense being it's designed for long drains.
For longer drain intervals, I still think using little/no VI's is probably best. However, there are some good ling drain oils that do use VI's such as M1 0w40.
I am guessing Amsoil 0w20 uses little to none because that oil does not drop any viscosity. Makes sense being it's designed for long drains.
Originally Posted By: Terra_Nova
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
To my way of thinking, unless a synthetic oil has a VI greater than 165 it's a poor value.
Unless that VI is achieved with low grade VII's and PPA's. To me, this is the weakness of using VI as a guide for choosing motor oils.
Is it reasonable to assume that in order for Toyota to get a 0W20 VI of 216, this very high VI was achieved primarily by mean of the heavy use of Viscosity Index Improver additives ?
So, if you had a Group 3 base stock, the additives would help drive the VI to such a high number of 216 ?
And I suppose with an Amsoil oil with a Group 4 base stock, the inherent nature of the Group already has a naturally high VI to begin with and may not degrade as quickly as an additive enhanced VI might.?
Could a Group 3 base stock with such a high VI, derived primarily ( I assume ) from additives sustain that VI spec over an extended drain interval in your view ?
Welcome your thoughts.
The following is a VOA of the current SN Toyota 0W-20:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2409059&page=3
It's a lengthy thread and makes reference links to a comparison with M1 0W-20.
The recommended OCI by Toyota USA for the Toyota 0W-20 is 10,000 miles and there are quite a few UOAs of the oil one can review.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
To my way of thinking, unless a synthetic oil has a VI greater than 165 it's a poor value.
Unless that VI is achieved with low grade VII's and PPA's. To me, this is the weakness of using VI as a guide for choosing motor oils.
Is it reasonable to assume that in order for Toyota to get a 0W20 VI of 216, this very high VI was achieved primarily by mean of the heavy use of Viscosity Index Improver additives ?
So, if you had a Group 3 base stock, the additives would help drive the VI to such a high number of 216 ?
And I suppose with an Amsoil oil with a Group 4 base stock, the inherent nature of the Group already has a naturally high VI to begin with and may not degrade as quickly as an additive enhanced VI might.?
Could a Group 3 base stock with such a high VI, derived primarily ( I assume ) from additives sustain that VI spec over an extended drain interval in your view ?
Welcome your thoughts.
The following is a VOA of the current SN Toyota 0W-20:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2409059&page=3
It's a lengthy thread and makes reference links to a comparison with M1 0W-20.
The recommended OCI by Toyota USA for the Toyota 0W-20 is 10,000 miles and there are quite a few UOAs of the oil one can review.
I used to use Amsoil years ago. Which 0w20 would you recommend for my application? Don't want to start a huge debate but how does the amsoil compare to M1, especially since I can get the oil and filter for $40 + tax. Money isn't a big issue but I don't like giving it away either.
Thanks.
Thanks.
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Not too speak for Pablo but their lightest oil is the XLZ 0W-20 with it's HTHSV of 2.7cP and 167 VI closely followed by the new OEZ 0W-20 with a 166 VI. Theses are GP III based oils.
M1 AFE 0W-20 is sustantially PAO based and has a HTHSV of 2.7cP and 173 VI.
Both Amsoil and M1 AFE with their HTHSV of 2.7cP are slightly heavier than specified for you're application but that is compensated for by their VI's that are higher than what you'll get with a 5W-20 dino.
M1 AFE 0W-20 is sustantially PAO based and has a HTHSV of 2.7cP and 173 VI.
Both Amsoil and M1 AFE with their HTHSV of 2.7cP are slightly heavier than specified for you're application but that is compensated for by their VI's that are higher than what you'll get with a 5W-20 dino.
Originally Posted By: buster
It's certainly an interesting oil, much like the Sustina with a VI of 229. These oils are designed for maximum fuel efficiency.
For longer drain intervals, I still think using little/no VI's is probably best. However, there are some good ling drain oils that do use VI's such as M1 0w40.
I am guessing Amsoil 0w20 uses little to none because that oil does not drop any viscosity. Makes sense being it's designed for long drains.
Long drain intervals and high VI's are not mutually exclusive.
The ultra high VI Sustina 0W-20 is also marketed as a long drain oil due to it's low sulfur chemistry and high 12.3 TBN.
Of course it's main claim to fame is it's industry leading 229 VI. The following video first posted by Buster demonstrates quite nicely the advantages of an ultra high VI oil:
http://www.sustina.us/product-line.php
It's certainly an interesting oil, much like the Sustina with a VI of 229. These oils are designed for maximum fuel efficiency.
For longer drain intervals, I still think using little/no VI's is probably best. However, there are some good ling drain oils that do use VI's such as M1 0w40.
I am guessing Amsoil 0w20 uses little to none because that oil does not drop any viscosity. Makes sense being it's designed for long drains.
Long drain intervals and high VI's are not mutually exclusive.
The ultra high VI Sustina 0W-20 is also marketed as a long drain oil due to it's low sulfur chemistry and high 12.3 TBN.
Of course it's main claim to fame is it's industry leading 229 VI. The following video first posted by Buster demonstrates quite nicely the advantages of an ultra high VI oil:
http://www.sustina.us/product-line.php
Thank you very much. You have been incredibly helpful throughout my quest to become a little more educated. Seems all three are good, Toyota, M1 and Amsoil. For me, it seems like M1 is the best value because of the AAP special however, special excluded, Toyota may be the way to go (Unless you feel I am way off base). I realize the Amsoil fans will probably bring up the longer interval aspect of Amsoil, etc. but I can't bring myself to go beyond 10k OCI's and M1 / Toyota are readily available in my location.
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Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Terra_Nova
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
To my way of thinking, unless a synthetic oil has a VI greater than 165 it's a poor value.
Unless that VI is achieved with low grade VII's and PPA's. To me, this is the weakness of using VI as a guide for choosing motor oils.
Is it reasonable to assume that in order for Toyota to get a 0W20 VI of 216, this very high VI was achieved primarily by mean of the heavy use of Viscosity Index Improver additives ?
So, if you had a Group 3 base stock, the additives would help drive the VI to such a high number of 216 ?
And I suppose with an Amsoil oil with a Group 4 base stock, the inherent nature of the Group already has a naturally high VI to begin with and may not degrade as quickly as an additive enhanced VI might.?
Could a Group 3 base stock with such a high VI, derived primarily ( I assume ) from additives sustain that VI spec over an extended drain interval in your view ?
Welcome your thoughts.
The following is a VOA of the current SN Toyota 0W-20:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2409059&page=3
It's a lengthy thread and makes reference links to a comparison with M1 0W-20.
The recommended OCI by Toyota USA for the Toyota 0W-20 is 10,000 miles and there are quite a few UOAs of the oil one can review.
Thanks !
Originally Posted By: Terra_Nova
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
To my way of thinking, unless a synthetic oil has a VI greater than 165 it's a poor value.
Unless that VI is achieved with low grade VII's and PPA's. To me, this is the weakness of using VI as a guide for choosing motor oils.
Is it reasonable to assume that in order for Toyota to get a 0W20 VI of 216, this very high VI was achieved primarily by mean of the heavy use of Viscosity Index Improver additives ?
So, if you had a Group 3 base stock, the additives would help drive the VI to such a high number of 216 ?
And I suppose with an Amsoil oil with a Group 4 base stock, the inherent nature of the Group already has a naturally high VI to begin with and may not degrade as quickly as an additive enhanced VI might.?
Could a Group 3 base stock with such a high VI, derived primarily ( I assume ) from additives sustain that VI spec over an extended drain interval in your view ?
Welcome your thoughts.
The following is a VOA of the current SN Toyota 0W-20:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2409059&page=3
It's a lengthy thread and makes reference links to a comparison with M1 0W-20.
The recommended OCI by Toyota USA for the Toyota 0W-20 is 10,000 miles and there are quite a few UOAs of the oil one can review.
Thanks !
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