Whining noise from Honda B20 Bottom End

[SiRDOHC]

Hey guys,

I am experiencing an odd noise from my 2001 Honda CRVs engine. it appears to be coming from the crankshaft pulley. The pulley also wobbles quite a bit, it is actually digging into the timing belt cover. But here is what is causing me to think it is a problem in the bottom end and not the harmonic balancer: The noise and wobble are non existant until the engine begins to heat up, and is at its worst at full operating temp. I'm thinking changes in clearances due to higher temperatures cause the noise and wobble .

Here is a video.
You cant see the wobble in the video, but you can hear the hollow whine. Like I said the engine sounds normal until it approaches operating temperature.

140K miles on the motor, and it has never had any work done to it besides a timing belt at 110K and valves adjusted. I have had it since about 85K miles, nothing but Castrol GTX 5W30 every 3.5K-4K miles.religiously while its been in my hands. It burns about a half quart in between changes. It has never been run dry. (in my hands).

Since this is an oil forum, would a thicker oil possibly alleviate this problem for me to buy some more time with the engine until I can deal with it? And what are your thoughts on this being an internal problem vs an external problem? In my experience accessories dont discriminate between hot and cold if they are gonna make noise, and they would't cause the whole crankshaft pulley to wobble.

 

[ARB1977]

Fix that pulley since it wobbles. Has the water pump ever been changed?

 

[Trav]

I'm wondering if the harmonic balancer isn't separating or a tensioner pulley may be failing.
You need to take this thing apart and get a better look at it, thicker oil wont help this with this problem.

I really doubt the crank itself is at fault, even with a worn thrust bearing the noise would be there all the time.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: SiRDOHC
Hey guys,

I am experiencing an odd noise from my 2001 Honda CRVs engine. it appears to be coming from the crankshaft pulley. The pulley also wobbles quite a bit, it is actually digging into the timing belt cover.

The harmonic balancer (crank pulley) consists of two parts with a rubber insert between them. It is common for the rubber insert to begin to break up and cause the two parts to come out of phase with each other, and begin wobbling. Eventually the outer part can fall off.

The only cure is to replace the balancer. Playing with the oil viscosity will do nothing. I strongly recommend a new OEM balancer in spite of the price; used ones may separate soon after installation.

 

[Schmoe]

Maybe it's me, but I don't see anything wobbling on the vid. Sounds like a power steering pump or water pump. I can also hear the valves tapping. A thicker oil may help the tapping sound, but that's about all it would do. That many miles, it's going to burn some oil. Our 2010 CRV burns about close to that amount. If your pulleys were that out of whack, you'd have already eaten belts by now. It's got to be one of the accessory pumps coming off one of the belts. Take the belts off and rotate any pulley by hand, you'd be surprise what you can feel by doing that.

 

[SiRDOHC]

Yes, Sorry the wobbling is not noticeable in the video, but its there, and like I said it and the noise gets worse as the engine heats up. (The video was taken at full operating temp)

Ok, I agree I may have been jumping the gun by thinking something may be wrong internally in the engine. But you guys are getting me to start thinking about the course of action I need to take. I checked the service manual and there is an accessible timing belt tension adjust bolt. I will drop the accessory belts before to rule them out 100%

The water pump was replaced with an OEM at the same time the timing belt was done. The timing belt tensioner was also replaced with a KOYO. Not even 2 years ago, the three accessory belts were changed and at this time I pressed in a new bearing into the A/C idler.

The power steering pump is fine, (I have had one fail on another similar honda, and I rebuilt the pump with a new bearing myself)
If you notice in the video, the noise gets quieter as I move towards the alternator, and louder as I return back to the timing belt area, the alternator is fine.

Tegger, I hear what you are saying about the Harmonic balancer, but it is hard to imagine a bad balancer would only wobble when the engine gets nice and warmed up. New balancers would be $350 up in Canada, So its gotta be used or a quick run down to Buffalo, should I need one.

 

[meep]

balancers are not pressed on. it's not uncommon for balancers installed with improper torque to loosen up and wobble away on the crank, eventually destroying the nose of the crankshaft itself. that's worst-case for you.

M

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: SiRDOHC
Tegger, I hear what you are saying about the Harmonic balancer, but it is hard to imagine a bad balancer would only wobble when the engine gets nice and warmed up.

The balancer isn't affected by engine temperature, but the plastic timing belt cover IS affected by heat. As it warms up, it will distort, coming closer to the balancer.

If the balancer wobbles, it needs to be replaced. Period.

A 2001 is recent enough that any number of wrecking yards -- ahem, "auto recyclers" -- should be able to supply you with a used one. There is a way of checking for delamination before you pay for the part, but I've not personally done it.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: meep
balancers are not pressed on. it's not uncommon for balancers installed with improper torque to loosen up and wobble away on the crank, eventually destroying the nose of the crankshaft itself. that's worst-case for you.

This may happen on some makes, but if a Honda balancer comes loose, the bolt will fall off very quickly. So I don't think this is the OP's problem.

 

[SiRDOHC]

The bolt isnt loose. I braced the 50mm hex using the proper tool, and the bolt would not move either way with a significant amount of force applied.

I would say it is the noise and feeling of drag on the engine, particularly under low load situations, that is concerning me most, not so much the wobble. Maybe the wobble isn't even that bad. Since the noise comes on around the same time it starts to wobble, I would guess that whatever is causing the noise is contributing to the wobble.

I will have to rip it all apart, and report back here.


Thanks for your input.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: SiRDOHC
Maybe the wobble isn't even that bad. Since the noise comes on around the same time it starts to wobble, I would guess that whatever is causing the noise is contributing to the wobble.

Like I said before, if the pulley wobbles, it needs to be replaced. Period. It's coming apart on you.

You should read my previous messages more carefully, specifically message #2568666.

 

[CBR.worm]

I would pull all the belts off and see if the noise goes away. Not knowing what drives your water pump, I wouldn't let it run long.

Certainly sounds like a pump. Could be something inside the timing belt cover rubbing on the belt or a tensioner. If it makes noise with all the accessories disconnected it will certainly point you in the right direction.

I have seen some harmonic balances that wobble slightly at idle.