I'm going to replace the rotors on my Charger because they are warped (common for Chargers). I'll also be replacing the pads if they need it. In '08 Dodge apparently fixed this problem so I was planning on going with OEM rotors over aftermarket in case the aftermarket brands never revised to the new (whatever they were) specifications. What do you guys think?
'07 Charger rotor replacement
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If you do any aggressive driving you might spend the extra cash on a set of cryo treated rotors. I had a set on my last car with some really agressive race pads. After a year the rotors still looked great and were straight as could be even though I had them Red hot countless times.
Not a very aggressive driver. It is my daily driver, primarily taken from the apt to campus (1 mile), to the stores (5 miles), now that its getting warm out I'll take her out through Giant City and cruise for a an hour or so and hit the curvy roads through the woods a couple times a month. Maybe a little faster than I should be
, man is it fun!
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Jordan_FX4
$50 Site Donor 2022
I can't give an opinion on rotors, but if you replace your brake pads ceramic is the way to go. It cuts down on brake dust a decent amount. Besides, you definitely have to do some braking out in Giant City or Crab Orchard with all of the curves and hills out there.
I'll give my experience. I had a '97 Cadillac SLS that was in the family for years. Mom always had to change pads and either turn or replace rotors every 15-20k miles. Seems the brakes were undersized for the weight. Anyway, shortly after I got it, the brakes started vibrating again so I installed a pair of Powerstop drilled rotors and new pads. That was at about 90k miles, and wouldn't you know it, I sold that car to my brother at 160k miles with the same pads/rotors, and HE traded that car on a new CTS at about 195k miles with the same pads/rotors. I would highly recommend either slotted or drilled rotors (probably slotted) if brake heat is a problem with those Chargers.
Some pictures:
http://www.jnjhome.net/cadillac/rotors.htm
Some pictures:
http://www.jnjhome.net/cadillac/rotors.htm
Warping is rarely a rotor fault. Typically it's pad deposited into the rotor surface. This is a pad issue, and can sometimes be a driver problem.
Slotted rotors are for cars with problematic pads, slotting does nothing to improve the rotor's performance. Ditto with drilling. It's a bling thing. Real racers use solid rotors because the rotor is a heat sink, and removing mass is the exact opposite of what is desired for high performance.
Ceramic is a buzzword in pad marketing. There are some wonderful street formulas with no ceramic in them, and there are high ceramic content formulas that really stink.
I have tons of experience with NAPA adaptive pads, they are a fine streeter. We also use Wagner Thermoquiet in our fleet. For rotors get the upgraded solid ones that are nearest to the factory ones.
Slotted rotors are for cars with problematic pads, slotting does nothing to improve the rotor's performance. Ditto with drilling. It's a bling thing. Real racers use solid rotors because the rotor is a heat sink, and removing mass is the exact opposite of what is desired for high performance.
Ceramic is a buzzword in pad marketing. There are some wonderful street formulas with no ceramic in them, and there are high ceramic content formulas that really stink.
I have tons of experience with NAPA adaptive pads, they are a fine streeter. We also use Wagner Thermoquiet in our fleet. For rotors get the upgraded solid ones that are nearest to the factory ones.
'98-'02 V-8 Camaros and Firebirds had a similar problem with front rotors warping. The dealer fix was to cut the rotors and put them back on, wherein they warped again in 5000 miles or less.
I did a lot of research and finally went with Brembo rotors that were cryo treated. With about 4 times the miles on the Brembos than were on the factory rotors when they warped, I haven't had another problem.
Stay away from drilled and/or slotted rotors unless you are willing to overpay for very expensive racing ones. Drilling almost all rotors reduces the performance at a higher cost.
I did a lot of research and finally went with Brembo rotors that were cryo treated. With about 4 times the miles on the Brembos than were on the factory rotors when they warped, I haven't had another problem.
Stay away from drilled and/or slotted rotors unless you are willing to overpay for very expensive racing ones. Drilling almost all rotors reduces the performance at a higher cost.
http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive/brake-vibration.shtml
"Many drivers confuse rotor warping, or warped rotors, with a condition called DTV (disc thickness variation). DTV occurs when a vehicle brakes are serviced and the brake rotor has runout in excess of 0.1mm or 0.004". This runout causes the pads to contact the rotor when the vehicle is being driven "off brake" and after 3-4000 miles, a thin spot develops on the rotor. The rotor runout itself does not actually cause a vibration. It is the effect of the thickness variation of the brake disc or brake rotor under braking that causes pulsation. Even small thickness variations such as 0.01mm will exhibit itself as pulsation.
. The general guideline is that if the vibration happens immediately after install, there is a quite severe runout problem that needs looking into. Brake discs or rotors should be mounted on flat smooth rust and dirt free hub flanges without the use of coppaslip which includes small particles which have the same effect as dirt. Remember that even a small particle of 0.001" under the rotor surface can cause a deviation of 0.005-0.010" at the
pad contact point.
If the vibration happens after 3-4000 miles, this is a clear indication that DTV has occurred which is not a warranty condition. The only solution for this is to remove the brake rotor, have it turned by a machine shop, or replace it with a new rotor.
"
Automotive manufacturers say the same thing as well. Also uneven and overtorqued lug notes can cause rotor run out and lead to disk thickness variation. Corrosion and uneven pad deposits also can DTV and pulsation. So usually rotor run out stack up is the cause of DTV and pulsation but sometimes the pad can be to blame.
"Many drivers confuse rotor warping, or warped rotors, with a condition called DTV (disc thickness variation). DTV occurs when a vehicle brakes are serviced and the brake rotor has runout in excess of 0.1mm or 0.004". This runout causes the pads to contact the rotor when the vehicle is being driven "off brake" and after 3-4000 miles, a thin spot develops on the rotor. The rotor runout itself does not actually cause a vibration. It is the effect of the thickness variation of the brake disc or brake rotor under braking that causes pulsation. Even small thickness variations such as 0.01mm will exhibit itself as pulsation.
. The general guideline is that if the vibration happens immediately after install, there is a quite severe runout problem that needs looking into. Brake discs or rotors should be mounted on flat smooth rust and dirt free hub flanges without the use of coppaslip which includes small particles which have the same effect as dirt. Remember that even a small particle of 0.001" under the rotor surface can cause a deviation of 0.005-0.010" at the
pad contact point.
If the vibration happens after 3-4000 miles, this is a clear indication that DTV has occurred which is not a warranty condition. The only solution for this is to remove the brake rotor, have it turned by a machine shop, or replace it with a new rotor.
"
Automotive manufacturers say the same thing as well. Also uneven and overtorqued lug notes can cause rotor run out and lead to disk thickness variation. Corrosion and uneven pad deposits also can DTV and pulsation. So usually rotor run out stack up is the cause of DTV and pulsation but sometimes the pad can be to blame.
^^^absolutely agreed^^^
And probably more of a problem in the rust belt areas of the country. But quite rare down here. Personally I have seen this extremely rarely.
I disagree with the last line though. A bit of a leap in his logic there.
And probably more of a problem in the rust belt areas of the country. But quite rare down here. Personally I have seen this extremely rarely.
I disagree with the last line though. A bit of a leap in his logic there.
OK, if I understand what you guys are saying ...
1) Rotor was bad on day one i.e. warped
2) Anything else, it can't be a problem with the rotor; the key wording is "DTV is not a warranty condition".
I am sorry but that is baloney. There are some rotors (assume cheap chinese ones) which will exhibit "DTV" in few thousand miles and there are some rotors (assume expensive American ones) which will NOT exhibit "DTV" for fifty thousand miles.
From the perspective of the buyer a warped rotor or "DTV"d rotor are similar in nature and indicates a substandard rotor assuming the installation was done correctly.
1) Rotor was bad on day one i.e. warped
2) Anything else, it can't be a problem with the rotor; the key wording is "DTV is not a warranty condition".
I am sorry but that is baloney. There are some rotors (assume cheap chinese ones) which will exhibit "DTV" in few thousand miles and there are some rotors (assume expensive American ones) which will NOT exhibit "DTV" for fifty thousand miles.
From the perspective of the buyer a warped rotor or "DTV"d rotor are similar in nature and indicates a substandard rotor assuming the installation was done correctly.
Well if you're lumping me in with "you guys" you didn't get my drift.
DTV is a distinct possibility. But it is FAR from the most likely cause of people complaining of shudder or pulsation in their brakes.
I also cannot believe any DTV can simply occur while you are braking.
We measure rotors very carefully here on a lathe before installation. I have seen DTV in a brand new rotor, but we rarely have those kind of problems anymore since we began bedding our brakes.
Further, iron is iron. If the rotor is manufactured correctly to OEM standards and its quality control is good then it's just as good as a so-called 'premium' rotor.
DTV is a distinct possibility. But it is FAR from the most likely cause of people complaining of shudder or pulsation in their brakes.
I also cannot believe any DTV can simply occur while you are braking.
We measure rotors very carefully here on a lathe before installation. I have seen DTV in a brand new rotor, but we rarely have those kind of problems anymore since we began bedding our brakes.
Further, iron is iron. If the rotor is manufactured correctly to OEM standards and its quality control is good then it's just as good as a so-called 'premium' rotor.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Slotted rotors are for cars with problematic pads, slotting does nothing to improve the rotor's performance. Ditto with drilling. It's a bling thing. Real racers use solid rotors because the rotor is a heat sink, and removing mass is the exact opposite of what is desired for high performance.
Both slotted and drilled options allow for better outgassing compared with solid rotors, and this most definitely improves brake performance. If you have not owned a machine that constantly eats solid rotors and pads for lunch, then you have not experienced the difference a different solution can make.
A friend of mine had a 2000 Grand Caravan. Everybody knows those vans had helplessly undersized front brakes. He told me that drilled was only for looks, etc. I finally convinced him to try them and they were the last rotors he ever had to install.
They work.
Slotted rotors are for cars with problematic pads, slotting does nothing to improve the rotor's performance. Ditto with drilling. It's a bling thing. Real racers use solid rotors because the rotor is a heat sink, and removing mass is the exact opposite of what is desired for high performance.
Both slotted and drilled options allow for better outgassing compared with solid rotors, and this most definitely improves brake performance. If you have not owned a machine that constantly eats solid rotors and pads for lunch, then you have not experienced the difference a different solution can make.
A friend of mine had a 2000 Grand Caravan. Everybody knows those vans had helplessly undersized front brakes. He told me that drilled was only for looks, etc. I finally convinced him to try them and they were the last rotors he ever had to install.
They work.
The statement was made that "real racers" use solid rotors. I'm pretty sure these are real race cars:
Having used drilled rotors before, I would try slotted next time if I were having trouble with brake rotors. Slots have the additional advantage of scouring the face of the pad during use, so you very rarely get glazing or other high heat effects.
Having used drilled rotors before, I would try slotted next time if I were having trouble with brake rotors. Slots have the additional advantage of scouring the face of the pad during use, so you very rarely get glazing or other high heat effects.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
OK, if I understand what you guys are saying ...
1) Rotor was bad on day one i.e. warped
2) Anything else, it can't be a problem with the rotor; the key wording is "DTV is not a warranty condition".
I am sorry but that is baloney. There are some rotors (assume cheap chinese ones) which will exhibit "DTV" in few thousand miles and there are some rotors (assume expensive American ones) which will NOT exhibit "DTV" for fifty thousand miles.
From the perspective of the buyer a warped rotor or "DTV"d rotor are similar in nature and indicates a substandard rotor assuming the installation was done correctly.
I'm not sure if I'm following you. The main reason a cheap chinese rotor or any rotor shows DTV in a few thousand miles while another will not is a classic case of too much run out in the rotor to start with (or runout in the hub flange or corrosion at the rotor/hub interface which would not be the rotors fault though). But I think a cheap chinese rotor even without excessive run out could still wear unevenly due to metallurgy and quality of casting despite having no excessive run out. So I think I'm agreeing with you and I don't believe a cheap chinese rotor has the same durability and function as higher quality rotors.
As for warranty a shop or car manufacture should warrant a DTV problem because they are suppose to assure the final assembly is within lateral run out specs. But a rotor manufacture would probably only warranty run out measured on rotors that haven't yet developed DTV. No doubt cheap chinese parts get away with selling and not warantying junk.
OK, if I understand what you guys are saying ...
1) Rotor was bad on day one i.e. warped
2) Anything else, it can't be a problem with the rotor; the key wording is "DTV is not a warranty condition".
I am sorry but that is baloney. There are some rotors (assume cheap chinese ones) which will exhibit "DTV" in few thousand miles and there are some rotors (assume expensive American ones) which will NOT exhibit "DTV" for fifty thousand miles.
From the perspective of the buyer a warped rotor or "DTV"d rotor are similar in nature and indicates a substandard rotor assuming the installation was done correctly.
I'm not sure if I'm following you. The main reason a cheap chinese rotor or any rotor shows DTV in a few thousand miles while another will not is a classic case of too much run out in the rotor to start with (or runout in the hub flange or corrosion at the rotor/hub interface which would not be the rotors fault though). But I think a cheap chinese rotor even without excessive run out could still wear unevenly due to metallurgy and quality of casting despite having no excessive run out. So I think I'm agreeing with you and I don't believe a cheap chinese rotor has the same durability and function as higher quality rotors.
As for warranty a shop or car manufacture should warrant a DTV problem because they are suppose to assure the final assembly is within lateral run out specs. But a rotor manufacture would probably only warranty run out measured on rotors that haven't yet developed DTV. No doubt cheap chinese parts get away with selling and not warantying junk.
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Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
A friend of mine had a 2000 Grand Caravan. Everybody knows those vans had helplessly undersized front brakes. He told me that drilled was only for looks, etc. I finally convinced him to try them and they were the last rotors he ever had to install.
Just for reference, here's that link:
http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/archive/index.php/t-6988.html
I am Hokiefyd and my friend is Shipo.
A friend of mine had a 2000 Grand Caravan. Everybody knows those vans had helplessly undersized front brakes. He told me that drilled was only for looks, etc. I finally convinced him to try them and they were the last rotors he ever had to install.
Just for reference, here's that link:
http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/archive/index.php/t-6988.html
I am Hokiefyd and my friend is Shipo.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Slotted rotors are for cars with problematic pads, slotting does nothing to improve the rotor's performance. Ditto with drilling. It's a bling thing. Real racers use solid rotors because the rotor is a heat sink, and removing mass is the exact opposite of what is desired for high performance.
Both slotted and drilled options allow for better outgassing compared with solid rotors, and this most definitely improves brake performance. If you have not owned a machine that constantly eats solid rotors and pads for lunch, then you have not experienced the difference a different solution can make.
A friend of mine had a 2000 Grand Caravan. Everybody knows those vans had helplessly undersized front brakes. He told me that drilled was only for looks, etc. I finally convinced him to try them and they were the last rotors he ever had to install.
They work.
Once again, you are describing a PAD problem. Outgassing is a relic, it rarely causes any issues anymore due to different materials. So IF you had some bizarre pad formula that had a lot of gassing issues THEN you might need somewhere for it to go. But not today.
Regarding slots, those are for pad problems. Extreme high performance pads do need slots, but they are rarely needed on the street.
And note that my car comes from the factory with slotted rotors. This was due to the SRT boys selecting a very aggressive pad formula, as it helps to prevent squealing and grinding. Also helps with scoring, as a racing pad eats rotors until it warms up.
But if one extremely anecdotal example is enough for you then your buddies Caravan stands alone as a shining star! You removed mass from his front brakes, lowering their heat absorbency and imagined that was the difference when I'm betting the pad swap was what solved the problem.
And you might want to get a few pictures of some more race cars. I have actually watched as the Porsche factory guys take off the drilled street rotors and installed solids for the real race. Also Nascar sports solid discs as well. Many more examples out there...
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Slotted rotors are for cars with problematic pads, slotting does nothing to improve the rotor's performance. Ditto with drilling. It's a bling thing. Real racers use solid rotors because the rotor is a heat sink, and removing mass is the exact opposite of what is desired for high performance.
Both slotted and drilled options allow for better outgassing compared with solid rotors, and this most definitely improves brake performance. If you have not owned a machine that constantly eats solid rotors and pads for lunch, then you have not experienced the difference a different solution can make.
A friend of mine had a 2000 Grand Caravan. Everybody knows those vans had helplessly undersized front brakes. He told me that drilled was only for looks, etc. I finally convinced him to try them and they were the last rotors he ever had to install.
They work.
Once again, you are describing a PAD problem. Outgassing is a relic, it rarely causes any issues anymore due to different materials. So IF you had some bizarre pad formula that had a lot of gassing issues THEN you might need somewhere for it to go. But not today.
Regarding slots, those are for pad problems. Extreme high performance pads do need slots, but they are rarely needed on the street.
And note that my car comes from the factory with slotted rotors. This was due to the SRT boys selecting a very aggressive pad formula, as it helps to prevent squealing and grinding. Also helps with scoring, as a racing pad eats rotors until it warms up.
But if one extremely anecdotal example is enough for you then your buddies Caravan stands alone as a shining star! You removed mass from his front brakes, lowering their heat absorbency and imagined that was the difference when I'm betting the pad swap was what solved the problem.
And you might want to get a few pictures of some more race cars. I have actually watched as the Porsche factory guys take off the drilled street rotors and installed solids for the real race. Also Nascar sports solid discs as well. Many more examples out there...
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Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: Vikas
OK, if I understand what you guys are saying ...
1) Rotor was bad on day one i.e. warped
2) Anything else, it can't be a problem with the rotor; the key wording is "DTV is not a warranty condition".
I am sorry but that is baloney. There are some rotors (assume cheap chinese ones) which will exhibit "DTV" in few thousand miles and there are some rotors (assume expensive American ones) which will NOT exhibit "DTV" for fifty thousand miles.
From the perspective of the buyer a warped rotor or "DTV"d rotor are similar in nature and indicates a substandard rotor assuming the installation was done correctly.
I'm not sure if I'm following you. The main reason a cheap chinese rotor or any rotor shows DTV in a few thousand miles while another will not is a classic case of too much run out in the rotor to start with (or runout in the hub flange or corrosion at the rotor/hub interface which would not be the rotors fault though). But I think a cheap chinese rotor even without excessive run out could still wear unevenly due to metallurgy and quality of casting despite having no excessive run out. So I think I'm agreeing with you and I don't believe a cheap chinese rotor has the same durability and function as higher quality rotors.
As for warranty a shop or car manufacture should warrant a DTV problem because they are suppose to assure the final assembly is within lateral run out specs. But a rotor manufacture would probably only warranty run out measured on rotors that haven't yet developed DTV. No doubt cheap chinese parts get away with selling and not warantying junk.
Sounds like the same reason we spend a few minutes measuring every rotor we buy.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
OK, if I understand what you guys are saying ...
1) Rotor was bad on day one i.e. warped
2) Anything else, it can't be a problem with the rotor; the key wording is "DTV is not a warranty condition".
I am sorry but that is baloney. There are some rotors (assume cheap chinese ones) which will exhibit "DTV" in few thousand miles and there are some rotors (assume expensive American ones) which will NOT exhibit "DTV" for fifty thousand miles.
From the perspective of the buyer a warped rotor or "DTV"d rotor are similar in nature and indicates a substandard rotor assuming the installation was done correctly.
I'm not sure if I'm following you. The main reason a cheap chinese rotor or any rotor shows DTV in a few thousand miles while another will not is a classic case of too much run out in the rotor to start with (or runout in the hub flange or corrosion at the rotor/hub interface which would not be the rotors fault though). But I think a cheap chinese rotor even without excessive run out could still wear unevenly due to metallurgy and quality of casting despite having no excessive run out. So I think I'm agreeing with you and I don't believe a cheap chinese rotor has the same durability and function as higher quality rotors.
As for warranty a shop or car manufacture should warrant a DTV problem because they are suppose to assure the final assembly is within lateral run out specs. But a rotor manufacture would probably only warranty run out measured on rotors that haven't yet developed DTV. No doubt cheap chinese parts get away with selling and not warantying junk.
Sounds like the same reason we spend a few minutes measuring every rotor we buy.
Most Chrysler rotors were not good to begin with. I have always had good results putting on premium blank rotors. Even many blank rotors made in China are better than Chrysler OE rotors from Canada.
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