How to tell if an oil is Truly synthetic?
- Thread starter TDOHGL01
- Start date
- Status
No. I have yet to see an oil that advertises what group oil the oil is made of on the bottle itself. Careful research beforehand (on this website
) is required. There are also oils every now and again that are highly debated as to whether they are truly grp IV, V, etc.
Even if it says "Full synthetic" doesnt mean its not just highly refinded Dino oil(ex: Super Tech Full Synthetic).Group III dino is most common.Group IV and V is either very rare or mixed in with Group III.Basically,you need the full scoop on all brands and even then they can change formulas so you never fully know.
Thanks to the "powers that be",a Group III dino is classed as "Full Synthetic",even though it still comes out of the ground,and when the wells run dry...no more Group I,II,III.Of course when the wells finally run dry,no more gasoline or diesel either...
What do you mean by "true full synthetic oil"?
If you mean all Grp IV and/or V, there is no way to tell by looking at the label in North America, and probably not anywhere else either.
Very few blenders are forthcoming with the basestocks they use in blending oils, either.
If it's a SOPUS product, it's Grp III.
We know this because Pennzoil told us so in a Q&A during their period of site sponsorship.
An MSDS will give you some limited information as well.
There is really no way of knowing unless a blender chooses to tell us.
If you mean all Grp IV and/or V, there is no way to tell by looking at the label in North America, and probably not anywhere else either.
Very few blenders are forthcoming with the basestocks they use in blending oils, either.
If it's a SOPUS product, it's Grp III.
We know this because Pennzoil told us so in a Q&A during their period of site sponsorship.
An MSDS will give you some limited information as well.
There is really no way of knowing unless a blender chooses to tell us.
OT:I hear no one complaining that T6 is not a true synthetic. Criticism seems to be unbalanced as to who is targeted.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
What do you mean by "true full synthetic oil"?
If you mean all Grp IV and/or V, there is no way to tell by looking at the label in North America, and probably not anywhere else either.
Very few blenders are forthcoming with the basestocks they use in blending oils, either.
If it's a SOPUS product, it's Grp III.
We know this because Pennzoil told us so in a Q&A during their period of site sponsorship.
An MSDS will give you some limited information as well.
There is really no way of knowing unless a blender chooses to tell us.
Originally Posted By: Rand
its a very grey line.. also some of the new Group 3+ have advantages close to PAO and group V and some they dont have.
you pretty much have to go by the oil and not focus so much on the group classification.
Thanks both of your answers were what I was looking for and I all I wanted to know was if there was any way to tell by the label on the bottles and I thank everyone greatly for answers that were already here and the ones to come thanks a lot.
What do you mean by "true full synthetic oil"?
If you mean all Grp IV and/or V, there is no way to tell by looking at the label in North America, and probably not anywhere else either.
Very few blenders are forthcoming with the basestocks they use in blending oils, either.
If it's a SOPUS product, it's Grp III.
We know this because Pennzoil told us so in a Q&A during their period of site sponsorship.
An MSDS will give you some limited information as well.
There is really no way of knowing unless a blender chooses to tell us.
Originally Posted By: Rand
its a very grey line.. also some of the new Group 3+ have advantages close to PAO and group V and some they dont have.
you pretty much have to go by the oil and not focus so much on the group classification.
Thanks both of your answers were what I was looking for and I all I wanted to know was if there was any way to tell by the label on the bottles and I thank everyone greatly for answers that were already here and the ones to come thanks a lot.
Originally Posted By: Rand
its a very grey line.. also some of the new Group 3+ have advantages close to PAO and group V and some they dont have.
you pretty much have to go by the oil and not focus so much on the group classification.
I didn't mean to imply that Grp IV or V basestocks were superior to Grp IIIs.
I agree that the user needs to consider how an oil performs in actual use, not what basestocks were used in making it.
Certainly Grp III basestocks have been used to make exellent finished oils, and these oils continue to improve.
I've got Grp III in at least two and probably three of my cars at the moment, so I have no bias against Grp III basestocks.
its a very grey line.. also some of the new Group 3+ have advantages close to PAO and group V and some they dont have.
you pretty much have to go by the oil and not focus so much on the group classification.
I didn't mean to imply that Grp IV or V basestocks were superior to Grp IIIs.
I agree that the user needs to consider how an oil performs in actual use, not what basestocks were used in making it.
Certainly Grp III basestocks have been used to make exellent finished oils, and these oils continue to improve.
I've got Grp III in at least two and probably three of my cars at the moment, so I have no bias against Grp III basestocks.
In the US unless its a speciality company or a product known to be a true synthetic like GC there is no way of knowing.
The US has no real truth in advertising laws concerning motor oil, basically anything they wave a stick at can be called synthetic.
Sticking to brand names IMO is the only way of getting an oil that may be close to performing like a true synthetic. Store and off brands may or may not be even close.
The US has no real truth in advertising laws concerning motor oil, basically anything they wave a stick at can be called synthetic.
Sticking to brand names IMO is the only way of getting an oil that may be close to performing like a true synthetic. Store and off brands may or may not be even close.
:sniff: was going through my drawers at work last week and came across an old Shell lubricants catalogue.
They referred to their XHVI oils as "highly refined mineral based oils with the performance of synthetics." (or words thereabouts).
They referred to their XHVI oils as "highly refined mineral based oils with the performance of synthetics." (or words thereabouts).
A low NOACK percentage is about the easiest way.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
A low NOACK percentage is about the easiest way.
CATERHAM: What do the NOACK percentages for M1 0W20 and 0W40 tell us about their basestocks?
A low NOACK percentage is about the easiest way.
CATERHAM: What do the NOACK percentages for M1 0W20 and 0W40 tell us about their basestocks?
Last edited:
They're using group V alkylated napthalenes in some small quantity, teddyboy. It's probably the reason you see those NOACK values.
Originally Posted By: teddyboy
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
A low NOACK percentage is about the easiest way.
CATERHAM: What do the NOACK percentages for M1 0W20 and 0W40 tell us about their basestocks?
First let me state that I disagree with the premise that GP III base oils are not synthetic. One really should be looking at the oil's performance spec's not it's base oil constituents to judge an oil. For example there are some GP III based oils in the lighter grades that I prefer to PAO based oils.
Antway, M1 0W-40 has a NOACK of 8.8%.
I don't know what it is for M1 0W-20 but having the lowest MRV in the industry is a indicator that it contains a high percentage of low molecular weight PAO base oils.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
A low NOACK percentage is about the easiest way.
CATERHAM: What do the NOACK percentages for M1 0W20 and 0W40 tell us about their basestocks?
First let me state that I disagree with the premise that GP III base oils are not synthetic. One really should be looking at the oil's performance spec's not it's base oil constituents to judge an oil. For example there are some GP III based oils in the lighter grades that I prefer to PAO based oils.
Antway, M1 0W-40 has a NOACK of 8.8%.
I don't know what it is for M1 0W-20 but having the lowest MRV in the industry is a indicator that it contains a high percentage of low molecular weight PAO base oils.
Quote:
First let me state that I disagree with the premise that GP III base oils are not synthetic.
I disagree with that 100%, so do the German courts even when appealed. Its earth oil no matter what is done to it.
That's not to say i cant perform close to true synthetics but its still lipstick on a pig no matter how you spin it.
First let me state that I disagree with the premise that GP III base oils are not synthetic.
I disagree with that 100%, so do the German courts even when appealed. Its earth oil no matter what is done to it.
That's not to say i cant perform close to true synthetics but its still lipstick on a pig no matter how you spin it.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
First let me state that I disagree with the premise that GP III base oils are not synthetic.
I disagree with that 100%.
That's not to say i cant perform close to true synthetics but its still lipstick on a pig no matter how you spin it.
Now you're contradicting yourself.
If it performs as well in some applications then it's not "lipstick on a pig".
And with GTL and other GP III+ oil's coming on line they will outperform some PAOs.
Judge an oil by it's performance spec's and don't be put off if the formulation contains GP III base oils.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but even in Germany, to be labelled synthetic the finished oil just needs to be predominately GP IV & V; i.e., 50%.
Quote:
First let me state that I disagree with the premise that GP III base oils are not synthetic.
I disagree with that 100%.
That's not to say i cant perform close to true synthetics but its still lipstick on a pig no matter how you spin it.
Now you're contradicting yourself.
If it performs as well in some applications then it's not "lipstick on a pig".
And with GTL and other GP III+ oil's coming on line they will outperform some PAOs.
Judge an oil by it's performance spec's and don't be put off if the formulation contains GP III base oils.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but even in Germany, to be labelled synthetic the finished oil just needs to be predominately GP IV & V; i.e., 50%.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked