Mobil 1 0W-40 might be cleaning my VW 1.8T engine

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Hi,
JAG - Whatever oil and maintenance programme you've been using the results look pretty fine to me!

Oil screen deposits are sometimes a mystery - the only serious lube related failure I've had was through a clogged screen and frozen drive oil pump shaft. This was an oil formulation matter!

I have seen many screens clogged with soft material - this was typically the result of poor service routines and a poor quality lubricant. Or a lubricant that did not meet the engine Manufacturers specification - and more diesel engine related (soot) than petrol engine

It is very hard to "blame" any specific lubricant when the engine has had a varied "diet". Cleaning an engine without dissassembly is at best a wish and mostly a wish that doesn't come true
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
JAG - Whatever oil and maintenance programme you've been using the results look pretty fine to me!

Oil screen deposits are sometimes a mystery - the only serious lube related failure I've had was through a clogged screen and frozen drive oil pump shaft. This was an oil formulation matter!

I have seen many screens clogged with soft material - this was typically the result of poor service routines and a poor quality lubricant. Or a lubricant that did not meet the engine Manufacturers specification - and more diesel engine related (soot) than petrol engine

It is very hard to "blame" any specific lubricant when the engine has had a varied "diet". Cleaning an engine without dissassembly is at best a wish and mostly a wish that doesn't come true


Good to see you on here sir. Your presence has been missed.

Fine advice as always
thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: zanzabar
I can't say I'm very 'impressed' with M1 0-40 cleaning abilities. At least not on VW 1.8T engines. Here is a pic of my valve cover and head after 117k on M1 with 5k OCIs.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...270#Post2427270
I think it's plenty safe to say the PCV system on these engines creates conditions very amenable to crud buildup, especially if not maintained regularly.
I wonder if 40wt diesel synthetic is the best idea to prevent all this varnish and hard buildup? My first oil change since getting this car was HDEO, and depending on how the G-Oil looks on UOA I may go back to Rotella (or maybe a winter/summer G-Oil/Rotella rotation).


PCV System? Been wondering if this is what is meant by that:

http://www.tt-eifel.de/content/images/53a83700952dbf891819610a0c0bf834.jpg

and how do you maintain it?

JAG, how many OCI´s did you use the PU 5W-40? Just got 5 Liters Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 (should be the same) delivered yesterday. Going to put that back in instead of M1 5W-50
smile.gif
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

I'd be (as would I'm sure many others) interested to see how it looks after a few OCI's on an HDEO to see if it is better or worse than what you have posted. Any chance of you pulling that cover again?


Yeah, eventually I suppose I will but not anytime soon. If/when I do I will certainly post pics.
 
Its amazing how much varnish has formed, even with the conservative OCIs. I would have guessed that M1, being a very clean running oil, wouldn't varnish at all unless things were extreme. It seems even the very best oils cant keep the 1.8t factory clean unless you're dumping it every week.
 
google your friend and helper:

http://fendubbers.forummotion.com/t7454-18-t-pcv-simplification

I´ll have to check that some time
smile.gif


Asking myself if the 1.8T´s like 0W-30 grade oil better, all the GC 1.8T´s are clean. I´ll goahead and sell the M1 5W-50 and fill the Helix Ultra 5W-40 in with its active cleaning agents.

Maby I´ll give the Castrol Edge 0W-30 ore Edge 0W-40 a shot next winter:
http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/welches-motoroel-t230315.html?page=1739#post29044309

Hope you all can see the pics
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
I have seen many screens clogged with soft material - this was typically the result of poor service routines and a poor quality lubricant. Or a lubricant that did not meet the engine Manufacturers specification - and more diesel engine related (soot) than petrol engine


I've been doing some thinking about my fleet service, Doug, and might such pickup screen clogs in gas engines have to do with the effects fuel dilution and contamination, at least occasionally? Back in the day, all my fleet was on LPG, so no fuel dilution, and there were zero pickup screen clogging issues, even with fairly long OCIs (10,000 km) on conventional.
 
Hi,
Garak - Yes it is typically a combiation of the things you mention. In the 1960s I was involved (via Chevron-Caltex) with a fleet of US vehicles (Cadillacs etc) in a hire fleet based in Copenhagen,Denmark. They were Chauffeur operated and covered most of the (then) Western Europe and Scandinavia. They experienced a wide range of temperature and operating conditions. About half were on LPG - these were always very clean and the others (all on a CAT Series 3 rated HD lubricant) were typically much more prone to such deposits. This was the same when I introduced the first LPG powered Cabs in Sydney (Manly) around 1978-9. This was a project via Chrysler who had a Factory here in OZ at that time.

The Auto industry has moved on and emmission controls changed the game!

Moving on - typically and in my experince poor CV is a prime suspect in most of these deposits including varnish. Sometimes poor design and application, lack of servicing and unsuitable lubricants etc. form an unhealthy alliance to produce what we see here and much worse. Anybody familiar with Porsche's late series Boxer engines will be familiar with CV and their system by default!!

Some engine families never experience any CV issues at all - mostly IMO it's all in the design!!

I've tried many lubricants in various cleaning phases after the "damage" has started - almost always with very little positive results. I have been mildly sucessful in using a kero/lubricant mix - but that can have undesirable side effects too of course. A "better"lubricant however may be enough to prevent further buildup and provide a long and trouble free "first life"

In fact DD here in OZ were into using short OCIs with Approved lubricants in an attempt to clean heavily sludged engines. It was a cheap and fruitless attempt to rectify a design/servicing matter

Centrifuge cleaners do have a place here too but are usually not cost effective in non-commercial applications

Some engine lubricants do perform better than others especially in diesels in this regard. At the expense of preventing a "discussion" on here I can say that many in Castrol's range were poor performers in the past (gleaned over some decades) - and now they are one of the best! Others have had excellent deposit control over several decades and thru various formulation changes

I hope this has been of interest
 
Doug, can I ask for the 'cliff notes' version of your last post along with some more scientific explanation?

CV = crankcase ventilation right?

So the 1.8T VW and other engines with absurdly over-engineered CV systems will recirculate combustion vapors and hot oil evaporates that then attach to all parts not bathed in oil? Or perhaps they condense on the parts exposed to air (which is kinda the same thing I guess).

Seems like a good explanation for what is going on in the OP's oil pan pics, as well as in my valve cover pics.

Not being one who is widely versed in engine design, what CV systems seem to avoid this type of varnish buildup? Do the people who have attached catch-can and other PCV bypasses on 1.8Ts see less varnish buildup?
 
Thanks, Doug. The fleets here have moved away from LPG, and since then, I haven't had any fleet engines apart. It would be interesting to compare what I saw back with SJ oils and LPG against today's emissions controls, SN/GF-5, and modern gas.

The downside is, these days up here, that few cabbies bother with their own oil changes (or do their own maintenance of any sort) and simply change oil "when they feel like it." So, it wouldn't be much of a controlled experiment.
wink.gif
 
Yannis, I have used Red Line for several OCIs in the last 20k miles or so. It may have cleaned or just maintained the cleanliness but it obviously left a lot of deposits behind. I should point out that when I had the pan off, I sprayed brake cleaner on a part of the block that had a quite dark layer of varnish on it. I sprayed, waited, sprayed, and so for about 6 times. I used the tube on the spray nozzle so it hit with some velocity. It didn't even put a dent in that varnish. So I wouldn't be surprised if many surfaces never get really clean no matter what oil and OCI I use. What I do want to happen is be able to extend the OCIs to at least 5k miles without new deposits forming. I spent the last few days studying the PCV system and what people have done to change it. In the process I learned why it's so restrictive, so I think Doug is correct that these deposits are largely PCV related. The system is restrictive even when perfectly clean and of course gets worse or completely clogged as deposits clog the orifices. I think the engineers were overly concerned about the intake sucking out too much oil vapor from the crankcase, thereby creating a PCV system with low suction that makes the engine deposit-prone. If they made it high-suction and included an oil separator it would have the best of both worlds.

I will probably modify the PCV system as shown in this thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3111538
This thread shows cutaway views of actual PCV valve and another piece called the Pressure Regulating Valve: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4417082
 
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