Which Motul oil to choose for VQ35HR (Nissan)?

[harp00n]

Hello!

This is my first post, though I read a lot of information here for the last month and surprised how tricky can be oil choosing

I have Infiniti G35x '07 sedan, with the VQ35HR engine (the same as Nissan 350Z '07-'08). I bought the car used with the 25000 miles on odometer and since then been using Motul 8100 Eco-Energy 5w30 oil (now it's 64000 miles). The car seems to like this oil, almost no consumption and engine seems to run smooth (though I didn't try any other oils to compare).

Anyway, since I bought the car I experienced "sputtering" problem (when the car warms up it sputters a little). There's a huge thread here about this issue on my350z.com: http://my350z.com/forum/maintenance-and-repair/307878-sputtering-during-warm-up.html. The only cure found is to change VTC covers (1500$+ work) - too expensive. But luckily, one guy there found that using the oil with a lighter density helps, here's a post about it (http://my350z.com/forum/9095291-post623.html):

"Few update from my side, and oil test results:

- Motul 300V 5W40, oil density:0,893 = Important sputtering
- Motul 300V 5W30, oil density: 0,871 = Light/Medium sputtering
- Mobil 1 New Life 0W40: oil density: 0,850 = Extremly light sputtering, almost none
- Castrol Edge Sport 0W40: oil density: 0,838 = No sputtering at all

I will also test the Motul 8100 X-Max 0W40, design for the 350Z, 370Z and GTR by Motul, with an oil density: 0,842.

Then, I guess the issue come from the density of the oil, which not allow a good work of the solenoid of the VTC, as explain by this garage with the Consult III results: Google translated from Japanese

So, it seems that the issue come from the oil, but not from the SAE range, the oil density is the issue.

So, I decided to change my oil and I narrowed my choice between Motul Eco-Clean 5w30 C2 and Motul X-Max 0w40. The other issue I don't want to have is earlier "limp" mode (which occurs at 280-300 F oil temperature) when I track my car at hot weather sometimes. I can't say this Eco-Energy oil goes to the "limp" mode too early, but I feel I need something more prone to overheat. And i choose only between these oils (or maybe some other Motul's). Here's oils specifics:

Motul 8100 Eco-Energy 5w30:
Viscosity grade SAE J 300 5W-30
Density at 20°C (68°F) ASTM D1298 0.848
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 57 mm²/s
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 10 mm²/s
HTHS viscosity at 150°C (302°F) ASTM D4741 3.4 mPa.s
Viscosity index ASTM D2270 163
Pour point ASTM D97 -36°C / -33°F
Flash point ASTM D92 226°C / 439°F
Sulfated ash ASTM D874 0.98% weight
TBN ASTM D2896 10.3 mg KOH/g

Motul 8100 Eco-Clean 5w30 C2 (this is recommended oil for my car by Motul site):
Viscosity grade SAE J 300 5W-30
Density at 20°C (68°F) ASTM D1298 0.845
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 57.9 mm²/s
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 10.4 mm²/s
HTHS viscosity at 150°C (302°F) ASTM D4741 3.0 mPa.s
Viscosity index ASTM D2270 171
Pour point ASTM D97 -42°C / -43.6°
Flash point ASTM D92 232°C / 449.6°
Sulfated ash ASTM D874 0.80% weight
TBN ASTM D2896 8.0 mg KOH/g

Motul 8100 X-Max 0w40 (this oil is recommended in the Motul technical annotation to it, as they say it is good for GT-R, 370z, 350z):
Viscosity grade SAE J 300 0W-40
Density at 20°C (68°F) ASTM D1298 0.842
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 74.9 mm²/s
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 13.3 mm²/s
HTHS viscosity at 150°C (302°F) ASTM D4741 3.6 mPa.s
Viscosity index ASTM D2270 182
Pour point ASTM D97 -45°C / -49°F
Flash point ASTM D92 222°C / 431.6°F
Sulfated ash ASTM D874 0.80% weight
TBN ASTM D2896 7.0 mg KOH/g

So, which oil will help me with my morning "sputtering" issue (0,842 density from X-Max seems to be the best?) and won't take me to the "limp" mode earlier (I guees, it is connected with the HTHS?)?

Sorry for the long post and bad english, but only you guys can help me

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Id be looking more at the oil filter choice. My toyota had VVT (vtc) and it was ensitive to oil type, grade and filter choice. Car seemed to like light oil (9-10 cSt@100c ~ 3 hths) and hate high efficiency filters. Does the Vq have VCT filter screens in the oil feed like honda and toyota employ? These can get clogged up and cause issues.

 

[harp00n]

Well, I use only OEM Nissan filter and as I know, VQ doesn't have any VTC filter.

Anyway, most people and Motul site recommend 8100 5w30 Eco-Clean. It has a little less density than Eco-Energy, so it might help me with this sputtering issue, but I'm afraid that low HTHS number (3.0) will lead to the earlier limp mode (oil will get hot sooner) than with Eco-Energy (3.4), or am I wrong?

 

[djipka]

Privet!

Welcome to the forum! I am a proud Nissan owner as well and I think you are going in the right direction. Here in the states the Motul oils are rare and you have a better educated guess than us. For the VQ35 most people see good results with Mobil 1 0w-40, German Castrol 0w-30, and Castrol GTX 5w-30. Most of us here dream to have the European oils available and we pay a premium price when we get ahold of some.

 

[CATERHAM]

I don't see a connection in any way with the oil's density but I can see how a lighter oil on start-up could reduce the stuttering you experience.
In that regard the very light Motul 8100 Eco-Clean 0W-30 with it's 183 VI and HTHSV of 2.94cP could minimize the stuttering, but would not be suitable for track use if you're seeing oil temp's of 300F.

For track use the Motul 0W-40 would be more suitable or the somewhat heavier M1 0W-40 with it's HTHSV of 3.8cP.

As a compromize what you could do is try the Eco-Clean 0W-30, if you like it stick with that for street use and for the track buy a litre of very heavy oil like Motul 300V 20W-60 (HTHSV 7.17cP) and add 500mls at the track. This should bump your HTHSV up to 3.7-3.9cP or so (don't know your sump capacity).

 

[djipka]

the vq has a small sump. it's right above 4qts (around 4 liters). Most people have better results all-together with a heavier Xw-30 or 0w-40. That is why in the states vq35 owners use GC or M1 0w-40.

 

[harp00n]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I don't see a connection in any way with the oil's density but I can see how a lighter oil on start-up could reduce the stuttering you experience.
In that regard the very light Motul 8100 Eco-Clean 0W-30 with it's 183 VI and HTHSV of 2.94cP could minimize the stuttering, but would not be suitable for track use if you're seeing oil temp's of 300F.

For track use the Motul 0W-40 would be more suitable or the somewhat heavier M1 0W-40 with it's HTHSV of 3.8cP.

As a compromize what you could do is try the Eco-Clean 0W-30, if you like it stick with that for street use and for the track buy a litre of very heavy oil like Motul 300V 20W-60 (HTHSV 7.17cP) and add 500mls at the track. This should bump your HTHSV up to 3.7-3.9cP or so (don't know your sump capacity).




Thanks for such a nice explanation! As I understood the nature of this "sputtering" is really oil density at low temperature, not viscosity. It begins to sputter, as VTC solenoids receive some wrong data, when the engine is warming up.

If you have some time, can you read the information from this Japanese garage (translated from Japanese, but readable) - maybe you would understand this issue more clearly than we did on my350z.com. This sputtering happens all the time the car is cold after 300-1000 miles after the oil change (i beleive, when the fresh oil looses some of its characteristics).

If you follow this link (the last 4 pages): http://my350z.com/forum/maintenance-and-repair/307878-sputtering-during-warm-up-32.html you will see, that people tried lots of different oils, including Mobile1, Redline, Amsoil, etc. with the different viscosities without the success, so I might stick to Motul.

So maybe I should try X-Max 0w40, as it has the lightest density (0,842) amongst others and has 3.6 HTHS, which should help the oil to be less hot on track, shouldn't it? Or which oil - Eco-energy, Eco-Clean or X-Max will keep the oil temperature on track lower?

 

[CATERHAM]

Lighter oil (lower HTHSV) which pumps faster through the engine will extract more heat than heavier oil but it is not significant in the narrow range of oil viscosities you're going to run.

I think there is some confusion when one talks about an oil's density because it is not the bottom line in an operating engine, operational viscosity is and this varies with temperature. Higher density oil chemistries tend to have higher HTHSVs relative to their KV100 spec's so one should ignore the KV100 spec's and look to an oil's viscosity index.
That's why I suggested the Motul 8100 Eco-Clean 0W-30. It will have the lowest viscosity on start-up due to the combination of a high 183 VI and low HTHSV of 2.94cP.

The real solution for track use is to get those high oil temp's down. From what I recall there was a supplimental factory oil cooler kit that addressed the problem.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Harp00n, I would get rid of the suspect made in china OEM NISSAN filter (not aware of what you get in the Ukriane) an get something bigger and more porous on there. This really reads like an issue you could chase you tail on looking at the oil, where I dont beleive for a minute that the fluid density has anything to do with the VCT issue. Only Oil pressure/flow/viscosity. Good luck. CHANGE THE FILTER with a 95% or less efficient unit!

 

[harp00n]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Lighter oil (lower HTHSV) which pumps faster through the engine will extract more heat than heavier oil but it is not significant in the narrow range of oil viscosities you're going to run.

I think there is some confusion when one talks about an oil's density because it is not the bottom line in an operating engine, operational viscosity is and this varies with temperature. Higher density oil chemistries tend to have higher HTHSVs relative to their KV100 spec's so one should ignore the KV100 spec's and look to an oil's viscosity index.
That's why I suggested the Motul 8100 Eco-Clean 0W-30. It will have the lowest viscosity on start-up due to the combination of a high 183 VI and low HTHSV of 2.94cP.

The real solution for track use is to get those high oil temp's down. From what I recall there was a supplimental factory oil cooler kit that addressed the problem.


I know about the oil cooler, but it's hard for me to install it, as I already have stillen transmission cooler and there's no place left to install an additional cooler...

Ok, so which oil will operate better at higher temperatures (like 260-280 F)? I guess - Motul 0w40 with 3.6 HTHS? But it will be more harder on startup than Eco-Clean or even Eco-Energy 5w30, won't it?

As for the filter there's a big discussion about it on myg37.com and the main conclusion is OEM filter is ok quality.

 

[djipka]

Originally Posted By: harp00n
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Lighter oil (lower HTHSV) which pumps faster through the engine will extract more heat than heavier oil but it is not significant in the narrow range of oil viscosities you're going to run.

I think there is some confusion when one talks about an oil's density because it is not the bottom line in an operating engine, operational viscosity is and this varies with temperature. Higher density oil chemistries tend to have higher HTHSVs relative to their KV100 spec's so one should ignore the KV100 spec's and look to an oil's viscosity index.
That's why I suggested the Motul 8100 Eco-Clean 0W-30. It will have the lowest viscosity on start-up due to the combination of a high 183 VI and low HTHSV of 2.94cP.

The real solution for track use is to get those high oil temp's down. From what I recall there was a supplimental factory oil cooler kit that addressed the problem.


I know about the oil cooler, but it's hard for me to install it, as I already have stillen transmission cooler and there's no place left to install an additional cooler...

Ok, so which oil will operate better at higher temperatures (like 260-280 F)? I guess - Motul 0w40 with 3.6 HTHS? But it will be more harder on startup than Eco-Clean or even Eco-Energy 5w30, won't it?

As for the filter there's a big discussion about it on myg37.com and the main conclusion is OEM filter is ok quality.


I personally am not okay with "ok quality". The idea of getting a different filter is good.

 

[harp00n]

Well, I might try different filter, but for now I want to understand which oil will work better at high temperatures 260-280 F at 6000-7500 rpms (some occasional track days).

1) eco-clean 5w30 c2 (3.1 hths)
2) eco-clean 0w30 (2.9 hths)
3) x-max 0w40 (3.6 hths)

or stick with the current Eco-Energy 5w30 (3.4 hths)? And as I mentioned in the first post, easy cold morning start is also important for me, though prone to overheat is the priority.

 

[djipka]

From your list the 0w-40 will be best for the high temp. For normal driving the 5w-30 looks good to me.

 

[harp00n]

well, I found another motul oil designed for my engine - 0w30 Nismo competition, here's it's technical data:

NISMO COMPETITION OIL 2108E 0W-30
100% Synthetic – Double Ester Technology
Lubricant for naturally aspirated engines

TYPE OF USE
Specially developed for NISSAN 3.5L, naturally aspirated engines VQ35DE, VQ35HR and VQ37HR fitted
on NISSAN 350 Z, Skyline V35, Skyline V36, 350GT, Pathfinder, Altima, Maxima, Murano, Quest, but
also on INFINITI EX35, FX35, M35, QX4, I35, G35, and requiring improved engine response and maximum
power output.
Engine designed to run low viscosity lubricants and to minimize fuel dilution in the oil.

Other applications: Racing car, Drifting car, Tuning car. Check with engine tuner before use.

PERFORMANCES
NISMO (Nissan Motorsport International)
Double Ester Technology: maximum oil film resistance, balanced polarity, resistance increased at
very high temperature.
This high performance lubricant is designed to deliver maximum power output on NISSAN and NISMO
naturally aspirated engines running at high revs and under heavy loads.
Low viscosity grade 0W-30 reduces oil hydrodynamic friction, provides maximum power output mostly
when oil is cold. Allows excellent oil flow into the engine, fastest oil pressure set up, faster rev raisings
and better engine warming.
Performance approved successfully on many races such as the 24 Hours of Nürburgring, Tokachi with
the NISMO Racing Team.
RECOMMENDATIONS
Oil change: 1865 Miles / 3000 Kms.
Do not mix with others lubricants.
This product is not covered by any NISSAN Motor Company warranty.
PROPERTIES
Viscosity grade SAE J 300 0W-30
Density at 20°C (68°F) ASTM D1298 0.851
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 51.8 mm²/s
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 9.8 mm²/s
HTHS viscosity at 150°C (302°F) ASTM D4741 3.2 mPa.s
Viscosity index ASTM D2270 176
Pour point ASTM D97 -36°C / -32.8°F
Flash point ASTM D92 226°C / 438.8°F
TBN ASTM D2896 6.8 mg KOH/g

I don't plan to use it because of the 3000km interval, but it seems like it has very close characteristics with the Motul Eco-Clean 5w30 C2 (specs are in the first post), so it might be a good idea to use it? Though Eco-Clean is not ester-based and I'm not sure how well will it work with the high temperatures (HTHS 3.0) - I don't want it to be less efective than current Eco-Energy 5w30 with the 3.4 HTHS...

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

In that regard the very light Motul 8100 Eco-Clean 0W-30 with it's 183 VI and HTHSV of 2.94cP could minimize the stuttering, but would not be suitable for track use if you're seeing oil temp's of 300F.

For track use the Motul 0W-40 would be more suitable or the somewhat heavier M1 0W-40 with it's HTHSV of 3.8cP.

As a compromize what you could do is try the Eco-Clean 0W-30, if you like it stick with that for street use and for the track buy a litre of very heavy oil like Motul 300V 20W-60 (HTHSV 7.17cP) and add 500mls at the track. This should bump your HTHSV up to 3.7-3.9cP or so (don't know your sump capacity).

I'd also suggest installing an oil pressure gauge if your car doesn't already have one. This will enable you to know the operational viscosity at any given time. For street use you should be able to maintain adequate OP on the light Eco-Clean 0W-30 but not likely at the track if those high oil temp's you mentioned are seen.
In which case having a bottle of 300V 20W-60, or a similarly heavy oil, on hand is all you need to add just enough to maintain the optimum minimum OP.

 

[harp00n]

Well, I just want to use one oil and don't mix it. My conditions are: a lot of cold starts, very spirited driving and some rare occasional track days. And for now I have three options (their specs in the first post):

1) Eco-Clean 5w30 C2
2) X-Max 0w40 (seems to be a reasonable choice?)
3) stick with the current Eco-Energy 5w30

 

[CATERHAM]

Without an OP gauge it would be the 0W-40.
And one really shouldn't track their car without an OP gauge.

 

[harp00n]

Well, I might try this 0w40 and post impressions later. I hope Motul engineers know what they write in the technical annotation of X-Max:

"Numerous OEMs such as NISSAN, JAGUAR, LAND-ROVER, etc... recommend to use a lubricant with 0W-40 viscosity grade and API SM for most of their sporty vehicles like for example the NISSAN GT-R, 370Z, 350Z,..."

Hope, it won't be too thick for VQ!

 

[djipka]

It will be fine.

The vq35 likes the heavier Xw-30 or light Xw-40 oils as I stated earlier. My older vq30 likes a bit thinner but I have never raced it really. My newer vq35 is still to be tested on what oil it likes best with the driving it will experience.