MPT Industries

[A_Harman]

I found an ad in the back of AutoWeek this morning, and looked up their website when I got to work. MPT is a company in Dover, NJ that is making their own line of fully-synthetic PAO/POE oils. Has anybody heard of them or used their oils?

http://www.mptindustries.com/mpt_products/automotive.htm

 

[Quattro Pete]

$15 a quart, huh? Not officially API/ACEA approved either. Fairly low VI as well.

 

[chubbs1]

Heard of them but their claims seem to be as ridiculous as their prices. With the lack of cert's I would not put that stuff in my engines.

 

[dparm]

I'd consider it for half that price. $15 is Redline, Motul, RLI, Royal Purple, etc. money.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I've seen their ads in Rounded (BMWCCA monthly mag) but that's it.

 

[dailydriver]

I have spoken in person with the owner (this is where I buy my Red Line products currently).

When he finally releases the 0W-30 this summer I WILL try it (or a mix of this with their 0W-40)!

 

[A_Harman]

I was hoping you would chime in on this, dailydriver. I thought it was strange that MPT was both a distributor for RedLine and is formulating ester-based oils that may be in competition with RL. Did the owner give you any insight as to why he wants to develop his own oil? Are they going for a niche that RedLine doesn't fill?

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I was hoping you would chime in on this, dailydriver. I thought it was strange that MPT was both a distributor for RedLine and is formulating ester-based oils that may be in competition with RL. Did the owner give you any insight as to why he wants to develop his own oil? Are they going for a niche that RedLine doesn't fill?


YES, they are.

His goal is to produce VERY HIGH (more than all of the rest) group 5 base stock percentage oils with RL/Motul/Torco levels (or above) of premium anti-wear additives, with NO/O/NADA VI improvers whatsoever, even in a 0W-40, which NO ONE as of yet has been able to do.
He thinks that even the top shelf, high grade, premium VIIs will still shear down badly in hard use, unlike our CATERHAM and others on here.

Now, of course everyone on here will BLAST him for the inevitable lower VIs, but they should still be decent with the 85%+ ester base stocks.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: A_Harman

He thinks that even the top shelf, high grade, premium VIIs will still shear down badly in hard use.
Now, of course everyone on here will BLAST him for the inevitable lower VIs, but they should still be decent with the 85%+ ester base stocks.

That sounds a lot like marketing hype to me.
A couple of years ago Terry Dyson strongly criticized the ultra high VI Toyota and Honda 0W-20s when they first came known, saying they would shear all to h*ll. Well he has had to recant that prediction. The truth is, the latest crop of low molecular weight polymer thickeners are very shear stable.

I have nothing against VII free oils. The FUCHS Titan GT-1 XTL 0W-20 I'm using in my track car is 100% ester based, contains no VIIs (and no ZDDP either) but still manages a 172 VI.

The thing is, high VI base oils are prohibitively expensive for most formulators and unless you are a major formulator you can't afford to use them. A high VI finished oil is necessary today not matter how it is acheived, and if you can't make it, not many who are knowledgeable will buy your oils.

Case in point, both M1 0W-30 and 0W-50 race oils are high VI products, especially the later. I don't know if they contain any VIIs but if your race oil doesn't have a VI of at least 170 it's not a competitive oil today.

 

[A_Harman]

Looking at their posted specs, I thought their relatively low VI's indicated no VII's. If they could come up with a VII-free 0w30 with an HTHS of ~3.5, I would consider buying it. But at $15/qt? Maybe, maybe not. I'm pretty happy with my mix of RL 0w30/5w30.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: A_Harman

He thinks that even the top shelf, high grade, premium VIIs will still shear down badly in hard use.
Now, of course everyone on here will BLAST him for the inevitable lower VIs, but they should still be decent with the 85%+ ester base stocks.

That sounds a lot like marketing hype to me.
A couple of years ago Terry Dyson strongly criticized the ultra high VI Toyota and Honda 0W-20s when they first came known, saying they would shear all to h*ll. Well he has had to recant that prediction. The truth is, the latest crop of low molecular weight polymer thickeners are very shear stable.

I have nothing against VII free oils. The FUCHS Titan GT-1 XTL 0W-20 I'm using in my track car is 100% ester based, contains no VIIs (and no ZDDP either) but still manages a 172 VI.

The thing is, high VI base oils are prohibitively expensive for most formulators and unless you are a major formulator you can't afford to use them. A high VI finished oil is necessary today not matter how it is acheived, and if you can't make it, not many who are knowledgeable will buy your oils.

Case in point, both M1 0W-30 and 0W-50 race oils are high VI products, especially the later. I don't know if they contain any VIIs but if your race oil doesn't have a VI of at least 170 it's not a competitive oil today.


I did not say that I necessarily agree with him on this, just that this is what he is trying to accomplish.
(But I have to ask, if it is not because of it's added VIIs (even their low molecular weight polymer thickeners), then WHY does the Toy juice shear down to ~15 weight in use??

)

In any case, I would be willing to try his 0W-30 when it is released, even at his 300V/Torco SR5-like price points.

 

[CATERHAM]

You mean to try their 0W-40 oil as they don't make a 0W-30 that I can see?

BTW, have you seen the PDS for there 0W-40?

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
You mean to try their 0W-40 oil as they don't make a 0W-30 that I can see?

BTW, have you seen the PDS for there 0W-40?


He is going to release the 0W-30 by the early summer, so that is what I wanted to try.

 

[CATERHAM]

Do you have the spec's on this oil and the 0W-40?

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Do you have the spec's on this oil and the 0W-40?


No, but I will try and get them the next time I go out there to get something (Dover/Victory Gardens is about 35-40 minutes away from me).

 

[maxell0405]

If the only point is to make a shear stable oil without VII's then I don't get it. There are plenty of shear stable oils, confirmed by UOA's, that use cheaper base stocks and some VII's. Why pay 2x just for shear stability? If the point is to make a shear stable oil that can go 20k miles, assuming adequate filtration, then the price is at least competitive and the product is environmentally better, but I don't see that in their marketing.

 

[CATERHAM]

maxell0405, welcome to BITOG!

I agree with your accessment.
The adversion to the use of at least some VIIs is very much old school thinking.
They need to reformulated there entire line using lighter POE/PAO base oils and some high quality VIIs with target VIIs in the 180-200 range.

 

[CATERHAM]

That's finished oils with target VIs in the 180-200 range.

 

[dailydriver]

You could be correct (CATERHAM & maxell) about adding the top drawer VIIs, but the extreme long drain "marketing" IS right in the name of the oils; 30 K.

 

[buster]

bump