Is wood or pellet fireplace insert worth it?

[PandaBear]

Say I have a fireplace that isn't used, and in the winter my heating uses about 80 therms of natural gas, at $1.10 per therm.

If I were to install a wood or pellet fireplace insert in the living room and let it warm up the house, either as a supplement to the natural gas or as a substitute, will it save me money?

The chimney is probably 2 store tall (those so called cathedral ceiling in the living room where the fireplace is at).

With a baby in the house I think we are keeping the thermostat at 68-70F at night, between Oct/Nov to Mar at night. The outside temperature is around 45-60 at night.

 

[bepperb]

The pellets for a stove are more expensive than natural gas and that doesn't account for the cost of the stove or adding a 40lb bag of pellets every day.

A wood insert could be something you could use, if you have a free source of firewood. Again, likely not cheaper than gas if you're getting cut, split, stacked wood at 250 a cord and paying a chimney sweep for it.

I assume you have an insert~less fireplace now?

 

[Schmoe]

I wish my gas bill was 88 bucks a month. I'd spend the money on getting better windows and maybe more insulation. If your only dropping to 65 or a little less at night, you should be losing that much heat in the first place. You got to look at up-front cost and payback time. I don't think it would be worth it in your case. Plus, it's just a matter of time before the eco-police outlaw any type of open burning.

 

[PandaBear]

Yes, my current fireplace is insertless and wood, and has a glass "door" that block most of it off.

The house will drop to about 63-66 without the heater turned on at night. I found that if I leave the thermostat at 68-70 my heating will use about 50-60 therms and if I leave the stat at 70-72 the heating will use about 60-80 therms.

I do notice some minor leaks around the front door seams and kitchen sliding door. I'll probably spend my time checking for leaks regardless of using wood/pellet fireplace insert or not.

 

[Brons2]

Originally Posted By: Schmoe
I wish my gas bill was 88 bucks a month. I'd spend the money on getting better windows and maybe more insulation.


+1

I just remodeled my house and now I have energy star dual pane, argon gas windows and R-15 in the walls, my gas bill has defintely gone down over past years. Althogh, the reason for replacing the windows and insulation was more for comfort than for energy efficiency. Now we can stand by the windows without experiencing air leakage and it's so nice

My wintertime weather is similar to yours, low temps in the 40-55 range on average from mid-november to march. Coldest weather we've seen this winter was in the upper 20s overnight. No arctic blasts this winter (ie high temps below freezing) and unlikely to have one this late in the season.

 

[IndyIan]

I assume you can close the chimney right now in your fireplace?
If not then I'd try plugging it as you might save alot of heat that way.
With only $88/month heating bills I can't see a wood burning appliance ever really paying off unless you can heat your whole house with it. Also even pellet stove only goes down to 10-12K btu which I suspect will creosote up the chimney if its always run that low.
I'd think a gas insert would be the cheapest to buy and probably to run as you'll never have to get the chimney cleaned as you won't have one.

 

[hemitruck]

i am on the other side of the country in nj. i would think installing the wood stove insert would be a better option. imho, pellet stoves are noisy, haven't seen one where the auger doesn't squeak, and there are to many moving parts. make sure you get one with an ash pan.

 

[meangreen01]

I don't know how old your HVAC system is, but if it's old and nearing replacement you might want to consider a high efficiency heat pump. Your climate is ideally suited for it. Electricity rates will determine how much of a cost savings you'd see.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
I do notice some minor leaks around the front door seams and kitchen sliding door. I'll probably spend my time checking for leaks regardless of using wood/pellet fireplace insert or not.
Not sure if you're in a house, apartment, condo, etc. However, sealing up holes/cracks in exterior walls & around doors is time well spent. Look under sinks where the plumbing goes through the wall for cracks. I spent a lot of time on this last year in winter and the effect was noticeable. I had several open fir-down cavities in the attic that allowed cold air to sink in causing cold interior walls. I sealed these with 3/4" foamboard and caulk/foam. Also sealed ceiling light boxes, fans, can lights, plumbing & electrical holes through the top plates. Look on Fine Homebuildings website for info on this.

 

[demarpaint]

I've used a wood burning insert for over 14 years now, it burns 24/7 from late October until late April. My gas runs just under $700/year which includes, cooking, hot water, and heat. I gather wood and buy wood, usually costing me about $300-$400/year. I burn about 4-6 full cords/year. If you want to factor in cleaning the chimney, I do it every other year for a cost of $100. I will be doing it myself for now on though it is very easy to do in this house.

People in similar sized houses in the area are paying about $2,500/year or more for heat, hot water, and cooking. IMO it is well worth it, although not for everyone. It is time consuming, and messy. I'd pass on the pellets, you can't get them free and they don't put out the heat that a wood burning stove or insert would.

Now if you can get a wood stove it is much more efficient than an insert is.

Oh and it saves wear and tear on the clothes dryer.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Not sure if you're in a house, apartment, condo, etc. However, sealing up holes/cracks in exterior walls & around doors is time well spent. Look under sinks where the plumbing goes through the wall for cracks. I spent a lot of time on this last year in winter and the effect was noticeable. I had several open fir-down cavities in the attic that allowed cold air to sink in causing cold interior walls. I sealed these with 3/4" foamboard and caulk/foam. Also sealed ceiling light boxes, fans, can lights, plumbing & electrical holes through the top plates. Look on Fine Homebuildings website for info on this.


It is a 2 story house, with tile roof and a "vented" attic full of shredded newspaper. It is probably a trade off for cooler summer which goes up to 100 easily than for winter. Thanks for the advice, I'd probably give it a try when I get the chance, if nothing at least it should reduce mouse / squirrel dropping.

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I assume you can close the chimney right now in your fireplace?
If not then I'd try plugging it as you might save alot of heat that way.
With only $88/month heating bills I can't see a wood burning appliance ever really paying off unless you can heat your whole house with it. Also even pellet stove only goes down to 10-12K btu which I suspect will creosote up the chimney if its always run that low.
I'd think a gas insert would be the cheapest to buy and probably to run as you'll never have to get the chimney cleaned as you won't have one.


Originally Posted By: meangreen01
I don't know how old your HVAC system is, but if it's old and nearing replacement you might want to consider a high efficiency heat pump. Your climate is ideally suited for it. Electricity rates will determine how much of a cost savings you'd see.


We already have natural gas furnace that is 4 burner (100k BTU I think), so natural gas insert will probably defeat the purpose of my intention.

HVAC heating is no go here because of the high electricity cost. One of my friend took the HVAC out to put in a natural gas furnace because he has been hitting the most expensive tier in electricity usage scale and natural gas, even factor in buying the 95% efficiency one, is a bargain in comparison.

My original thinking was to burn wood once in a while as I've seen everyone saying wood is cheaper. However I've seen insert costing $4k and wood costing $250 a cord now and it doesn't look like that big of a bargain, if anything anymore.

 

[callbay]

Here is a great site to compare different fuel costs-

http://www.warmair.com/html/fuel_cost_comparisons.htm

 

[marshall25]

Wow, $1.10 a therm, that seems awful high to me, I just paid $.38 a therm in Northwest Indiana.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
It is a 2 story house, with tile roof and a "vented" attic full of shredded newspaper. It is probably a trade off for cooler summer which goes up to 100 easily than for winter. Thanks for the advice, I'd probably give it a try when I get the chance, if nothing at least it should reduce mouse / squirrel dropping.
When you have air leaks allowing air flow through your attic insulation, it greatly reduces its effectiveness. Imagine leaving your coat unbuttoned on a cold windy day: Not nearly as warm as buttoned up. Same with attic insulation.

Furthermore, cracks/openings around pipes under sinks, wash/dry, electric outlets, etc allows outside, unfiltered air to come in when your AC/furnace blower kicks in. Also results in a dusty house.

I have a large rough cedar beam across the ridge in my living room vaulted ceiling. Years ago I pulled the trim off hiding the joint between the beam and the sheetrock and the gap was big enough to put my finger in! ...across the whole length of the beam! ...on both sides! Talk about a huge air leak! I sealed it all up with foam backer rod & caulk. A crack 1/2" x 18.5' x 2 is a hole 1.5 sqr. ft! Go after the big ones first.

I recently saw a cool device to completely seal off a fireplace when it's not in use. It's a silver air bag with a long hose. You stick it up in the flue, inflate the bag. The end hangs down into the fireplace to remind you its there. Thought this was a great idea to a common problem.

 

[tom slick]

I have a free-standing pellet stove that I use occasionally but if it were gone I wouldn't miss it at all. If I were to replace it I'd go with gas. Pellets are a bit of a hassle but not too bad, the fan is loud for the amount of heat it puts out. Gas inserts put out quite a bit of heat and you don't loose any up the chimney like a wood burning fireplace.

 

[Al]

I would seal off the chimney. I burned wood in two wood stoves for 25 years. You seriously want to stay away from wood or pellets. Also hope you have a ceiling fan in the room with the high ceiling.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

In my opinion, alternative heating sources such as wood, corn or pellets are more of a hassle than they are worth.

Since your temperatures really aren't that cold, before considering expensive alternative heat sources, do the little things that will make a big difference.

Many energy companies will do an audit on the home and point out your heat losses. Make sure your doors and windows seal tightly-if they don't, fix them. If you have a basement make sure there's good insulation on the sill plate. Make sure your existing heating system is as efficient as possible, and if it's an older system, consider replacing it. Carefully walk around the house and look for every little area where heat might escape, and seal it up.

I live in an area that regularly sees sub zero weather in the winter, and we're on propane. I suspect my annual heating bill is less than yours, not because we have alternative sources, but because the house is extremely energy efficient.

It's money well invested.