Mobil 1 Full-Synthetic: Full synthetic or not?

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Originally Posted By: NHGUY
I would think that back in the 70s Mobil 1 was "real".They sold Amsoil the rights to market their oil for a year before Mobil brought out their Mobil 1 synthetic line.It was actually Mobil selling them the ingredients though.Right? Today its all about profits.So cheapening a product all the while "tricking" the public into believing its the same old same old is nothing new.Its like marketing Arco Graphite without any graphite in it....but not telling anybody.



That's pretty much just made up stuff and the rest is bull pucky.
 
Originally Posted By: 45ACP
Originally Posted By: fxrider
Originally Posted By: 345hemi
Amsoil base stock is made by Mobil. So is Amway oil not synthetic anymore? Redline is a group V but who wants to spend that much money for oil?
No need to bash Amsoil.


Im waiting for Pablo to chime in here. I believe poster offended AMSOIL with this comment.
smile.gif
(sarcasm)

But, really, Pablo can tell us if it is true.

Mobil makes Supertech too, so.


I have no idea who makes Amway's oils.

If that poster was trying to be cute, he came off as a dork.

Amsoil answers the question daily. It doesn't matter. It's the performance that counts. But as you can see in the prices of esters, the higher priced lubes usually have some esters if that gets you all excited.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
I'd just accept that it is synthetic. It's their best even if synthetics are a bit different sourced today.
It can vary by grade too. Some suggest there are more higher group oils in the 0w40 Mobil 1 than the other. Who knows really?


It varies greatly by grade.
The two big tellers are NOACK and low temp MRV. From those two things we can acertain with at least some certainty which base oils are in use.
Mobil 1's 0w30 has an obscenely low MRV at -40, meaning it is likely primarily PAO-based.
Mobil 1 0w40 has as very low NOACK, meaning it is likely primarily PAO-based.

I agree NOACK and MRV can be good indicators of GP IV & V content particularly NOACK.

BTW M1 0W-30 (MRV 13,250cP, HTHSV 3.0cP) does have an impressively low MRV spec' but not as impressive as the Cdn made Mobil Delvac Elite 222 0W-30 (nee Esso XD-3) with it's MRV of 14,900cP considering it's a much heavier oil with it's HTHSV of 3.5cP. And this oil IS claimed to be 100% PAO based.

Additionally M1 0W-40's MRV of 31,000cP is not really that impressive. There are heavier GP III based oils that have more impressive MRV spec's like PC Duron 0W-40 (HTHSV 4.04cP and MRV 26,940cP).
Then there is PAO based Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 0W-40 (nee Esso XD-3 0W-40) with is heavier (HTHSV 4.0-4.2cP) but has a much lower MRV of 21,300cP.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
I'd just accept that it is synthetic. It's their best even if synthetics are a bit different sourced today.
It can vary by grade too. Some suggest there are more higher group oils in the 0w40 Mobil 1 than the other. Who knows really?


It varies greatly by grade.
The two big tellers are NOACK and low temp MRV. From those two things we can acertain with at least some certainty which base oils are in use.
Mobil 1's 0w30 has an obscenely low MRV at -40, meaning it is likely primarily PAO-based.
Mobil 1 0w40 has as very low NOACK, meaning it is likely primarily PAO-based.

I agree NOACK and MRV can be good indicators of GP IV & V content particularly NOACK.

BTW M1 0W-30 (MRV 13,250cP, HTHSV 3.0cP) does have an impressively low MRV spec' but not as impressive as the Cdn made Mobil Delvac Elite 222 0W-30 (nee Esso XD-3) with it's MRV of 14,900cP considering it's a much heavier oil with it's HTHSV of 3.5cP. And this oil IS claimed to be 100% PAO based.

Additionally M1 0W-40's MRV of 31,000cP is not really that impressive. There are heavier GP III based oils that have more impressive MRV spec's like PC Duron 0W-40 (HTHSV 4.04cP and MRV 26,940cP).
Then there is PAO based Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 0W-40 (nee Esso XD-3 0W-40) with is heavier (HTHSV 4.0-4.2cP) but has a much lower MRV of 21,300cP.


Agreed, however M1 0w40's NOACK of 8.8% is impressive, so it is all relative of course
smile.gif
I think there was an obvious compromise made to keep volatility low, which affected the cold temp performance.
 
M1 0W20 has very low MRV spec' and 0W40 has very good NOACK number. Mixing the 2 half and half should get better oil than M1 0W30 ?

I just changed oil last week in my E430, I used 5qt jug M1 0W20 and 2 quarts 0W40. The dipstick showed the oil level at 1/3 up from the add line, and onboard computer says oil level okay. I may add 1/2 to 1 quart M1 15W50 I had for more than 8 years in summer if needed.
 
As you probabily know a NOACK of not over 9% is a spec' in a number of Euro' applications. That means having a high VI oil like M1 0W-40 more difficult to formulate without the use of predominately GP IV & V base stocks especially since it involves the use of lighter base oils which have inherently higher NOACK volatility.

Having said that, the high VI, low NOACK GP III+ base oils that are becoming more available, such as GTL GP III+ oils, will further narrow the performance difference between base oil types and what constitutes a true synthetic finished oil.
At the end of the day it doesn't really matter, it's performance that counts and how it's achieved is immaterial.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
At the end of the day it doesn't really matter, it's performance that counts and how it's achieved is immaterial.

This, and maybe this entire thread should be mandatory reading for all new BITOG members.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2


Good point.

Let's have a thought about this:

Ethylene, the feedstock for PAO production is made by the following:

High molecular weight hydrocarbons are cracked over zeolite catalysts.

Kniel, Ludwig; Winter, Olaf; Stork, Karl (1980). Ethylene, keystone to the petrochemical industry. New York: M. Dekker. ISBN 0-8247-6914-7.

Group III basestock is made by the following:

Hydrocracking in the presence of an elevated partial pressure of hydrogen gas, and/or alumina/zeolite catalysts in a catalytic cracker.

Reza Sadeghbeigi (2000). Fluid Catalytic Cracking Handbook (2nd ed.). Gulf Publishing. ISBN 0-88415-289-8.

So where does it all come from? Oh yeah, crude oil, not some magic PAO well.

The difference? Number and severity of the steps and separations, all of which take energy.

If I can use a lower energy process, hat takes less steps nd gives me a finished product with very much of the same basic performance, why wouldnt I? Especially when I can blend in other stuff that will enhance performance (basestocks and adds) at fairly low treatment rates.

I think some people think that PAO and POE come from a magical synthetic basestock well...

What will they say when they learn that their ethylene is coming from coal????
cry.gif




Excellent information---it should be a sticky.
 
there needs to be a sticky is mobil 1 pure synthetic so yearly we dont have to have the same topic.....those stuck on the group 4 is the only synthetic... try to understand its not all about basestocks, oils are evolving so much I think its apparant group 3 can post just as impressive numbers by the long list of successfull UOA. Mobil still does in fact utilize group 4 in certain formulations, do some searching theres enough mobil 1 information on here to sit you down at the computer for a month. Its not so much a group 3 versus group 4 war any more as to finding which oil posts the least wear with your particular engine.....
 
oh sorry to offend the mighty AMSOIL!!! but i believe the their XL is a group 3. go red line if want the only full synthetic but it gets kinda pricey. i stick with Mobil 1 or Valvoline and get well over 200k out of my cars. i always showed more concern for the filter and have 6000-7000 oci's.
 
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