Turbo timer for 2012 Mazdaspeed 3...necessary?

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I recently acquired the car mentioned above. It has ~500 miles on it so far. I will be operating the motor on Mobil 1 5W30. My main question is:

Would you install a turbo timer on this car? I'm hyper-vigilant about not shutting it off directly after using any boost for at least 1-2 minutes of idling in my driveway. I've been reading that the life and operation of a turbocharger are cut short by not allowing adequate time for "cooler" oil to flow through the turbocharger.

Are the 1-2 minutes of cool-down period enough for my intention of keeping the turbocharger functioning well? Would you recommend longer? If any of you recommend a turbo timer, can you recommend a specific brand/model?

Thanks in advance.
 
Skip the timer. Put the money into a set of Blizzaks or a TWM short shift kit.

Here's what I do. As I approach my destination, I take it easy on the revs and pop it into neutral and coast down on the last street or two before I park it. I might give it 5-10 seconds of idle once it's parked but I know the turbo is calmed down. BTW, you can hear it spinning if you shut down after a hard run so, it's not hard to tell if you've given it enough time.
 
I've certainly noticed the sound. I never get into boost directly before parking...and if I do, I let it idle for the aforementioned amount of time.

OK, well...that's 1 vote against the turbo timer.
 
I am of the opinion that a turbo timer is no longer needed.

In the 'old daze' we did not have water cooling and good oils like now. Plus the modern water cooled turbos are still using convection even after shutdown.

Good high quality oil and a gentle throttle just before shutdown is probably just fine.
 
When I drove a turbo car the only time I ever bothered with a deliberate cooldown was on long highway runs where the car is on boost for 4 hours, then pull off into the rest area and shut it off.

For daily driving, you're going to putt around the neighborhood streets for a minute or two befire you get home, and that's plenty. An extra two minutes of idling is a waste of time and gas.
 
I drive gently for the last 2 minutes (easy for me...I live on a quiet street) and idle for 30 seconds. With a good quality oil, I think you're fine doing just that. If you're racing/tracking the car and generating crazy heat in the turbo, then just drive a longer cooldown...
 
Have a twin turbo for 11 years now, once considered a timer then just let it idle for a while before shutting down then after a few years just don't bother any more. Use a high quality synthetic and don't worry about the oil or turbo.
 
Timers are a waste of money. Only those who want to seem cool get them now-adays. There's a topic about turbo cooldown already, btw. Lots of great posts.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I am of the opinion that a turbo timer is no longer needed.

In the 'old daze' we did not have water cooling and good oils like now. Plus the modern water cooled turbos are still using convection even after shutdown.

Good high quality oil and a gentle throttle just before shutdown is probably just fine.


Convection? wouldn't that just cool the housing? Not the turbine? I don't know much about turbochargers on cars so I'm not going to pretend like I do. I disagree with immediate shutdown after abuse even tho it still "cools". What about lost oil pressure and the impeller shaft still spinning? I know diesels are different, the main concern there is EGT's (turbine temp) and proper spool down. I am assuming that gas engine's don't even run close to the same EGT's so it's not a major concern?
 
Agreed that it would be a waste of money. I drive a Mazda CX7 and I let the car idle for 10 seconds or so when driving in town and maybe one full minutes after a long highway drive. Turbo timers were valuable years ago before water cooled turbos.
 
I would only bother with a timer on a modified turbocharged engine... If I had an Evo/STi/335i/RX7/etc making more than stock boost, and if I owned one it would be making a lot more boost, I would have a timer on it, even if simply for peace of mind.
 
Originally Posted By: slammds15
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I am of the opinion that a turbo timer is no longer needed.

In the 'old daze' we did not have water cooling and good oils like now. Plus the modern water cooled turbos are still using convection even after shutdown.

Good high quality oil and a gentle throttle just before shutdown is probably just fine.


Convection? wouldn't that just cool the housing? Not the turbine? I don't know much about turbochargers on cars so I'm not going to pretend like I do. I disagree with immediate shutdown after abuse even tho it still "cools". What about lost oil pressure and the impeller shaft still spinning? I know diesels are different, the main concern there is EGT's (turbine temp) and proper spool down. I am assuming that gas engine's don't even run close to the same EGT's so it's not a major concern?


I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with; no one is promoting shutting down straight after a hot lap. Even still, the "cooling" that occurs is a real thing. The hot turbine is lower than the turbine reservoir, allowing the hot coolant to rise up to the relatively cool reservoir, then drop down to the radiator. The difference in temp is what allows for convective flow, and sufficient cooling of the turbine, post-shutdown.

I'll say again that there is no reason for a turbo timer, nor any kind of extended idling, except to satisfy your peace-of-mind needs. Why would coming off the highway require extended idling? You're not boosting, and you've got great, relatively cool exhaust flow, so this, of all circumstances, wouldn't require any kind of cooldown.
 
I have had a number of old turbodiesels, a turbo saab and a twin spool BMW. My brother had a 3000GT VR-4.

The VR-4 got a turbo timer, Ive not put one on any other vehicles.

I drive gently to start, and really the only time when there is practially no spool down time given my driving conditions, is if I was to pull off on a rest stop on a toll road (like the stops on the IN/OH/NJ/PA/NY turnpike systems). On those, you could be cruising at 75, pull off and have the car shut off within 15-30 seconds of when you were at a high level of load. The reality is that if you run that experiment on ANY vehicle, youll see heat soaking taking your coolant well over boiling. 260+ is more than obtainable. SO youll have less delta T, meanwhile no oil flow, not saying it will or will not have bad effects, but I prefer to be as gentle as I can on equipment.

If you have the potential to do this kind of thing a lot (other road systems in other parts of the country where there are very fast roads servicing stores, high speed service roads, etc may apply), then it may be useful since you dont have to even think about it.

For me, the conditions where Id need to drive light and idle beyond my normal light-foot driving from an exit to a turnoff point are so seldom, so few and far between, that Ill rely on memory and put my $$$ elsewhere.

It all depends upon how often you would be in a situation as I described, such that convenience is a factor. Even with water cooled turbos and less volatile oils, turbos are also running tighter clearances, faster rotational speeds (IIRC some of the new ecoboost engines are >>200k, while IIRC my 82 MB 300D Garret T3 is like 100k), which may or may not be true...
 
typically the smaller ones run faster than the bigger ones.

Way back in 85 my RX-7 Turbo had the oil filter mounted way up high on the engine. This made for a great trickle down effect after shutdown. Ran that car 150k plus miles of HARD driving, and never made a peep mechanically.

At one point I had a homemade kit car with a turbo, and it had a pre-luber and a timer on it. It was a great idea but simply added another layer of complexity and more failure points.

I can guarantee you the mfgrs have done the testing to prove that 99.9% of us do not need any timers on our turbo cars.
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: slammds15
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I am of the opinion that a turbo timer is no longer needed.

In the 'old daze' we did not have water cooling and good oils like now. Plus the modern water cooled turbos are still using convection even after shutdown.

Good high quality oil and a gentle throttle just before shutdown is probably just fine.


Convection? wouldn't that just cool the housing? Not the turbine? I don't know much about turbochargers on cars so I'm not going to pretend like I do. I disagree with immediate shutdown after abuse even tho it still "cools". What about lost oil pressure and the impeller shaft still spinning? I know diesels are different, the main concern there is EGT's (turbine temp) and proper spool down. I am assuming that gas engine's don't even run close to the same EGT's so it's not a major concern?


I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with; no one is promoting shutting down straight after a hot lap. Even still, the "cooling" that occurs is a real thing. The hot turbine is lower than the turbine reservoir, allowing the hot coolant to rise up to the relatively cool reservoir, then drop down to the radiator. The difference in temp is what allows for convective flow, and sufficient cooling of the turbine, post-shutdown.

I'll say again that there is no reason for a turbo timer, nor any kind of extended idling, except to satisfy your peace-of-mind needs. Why would coming off the highway require extended idling? You're not boosting, and you've got great, relatively cool exhaust flow, so this, of all circumstances, wouldn't require any kind of cooldown.


A hot turbine won't be cooled by a convection cooled housing. The turbine is near it, but only attached by a small shaft. Hence the short idle time to allow cooler exhaust gases to cool it. A short idle time will also allow other engine components to cool evenly. Also not trying to start some kind of flame war, just stating that I disagree with immediate shut down.


ISX CM871

101-009 Engine Shutdown
Table of Contents
General Information


General Information
TOC

Allow the engine to idle 3 to 5 minutes before shutting it off after a full-load operation. This allows adequate cool down of pistons, cylinders, bearings, and turbocharger components.
NOTE: For engines equipped with an electronic control module (ECM) ensure the keyswitch is turned off for a minimum of 60 seconds prior to disconnecting the continuous (unswitched) battery power supply. If the unswitched battery power supply is disconnected in less than 60 seconds after the keyswitch is turned off active fault codes and incorrect ECM information can occur.

Turn the ignition switch to the OFF position. If the engine does not shut down, refer to Troubleshooting Symptom (Section TS) in appropriate Operation and Maintenance manual.
NOTE: For engines equipped with an electronic control module (ECM) ensure the keyswitch is turned off for a minimum of 60 seconds prior to disconnecting the continuous (unswitched) battery power supply. If the unswitched battery power supply is disconnected in less than 60 seconds after the keyswitch is turned off active fault codes and incorrect ECM information can occur.
CAUTION

Failure to follow the correct shutdown procedure may result in damage to the turbocharger and shorten the turbocharger life.

SMALL | MEDIUM | LARGE


Last Modified: 05-Apr-2011
Feedback / Help
Copyright © 2000-2010 Cummins Inc. All rights reserved.


ISM CM876

101-009 Engine Shutdown
Table of Contents
General Information


General Information
TOC

Allow the engine to idle 3 to 5 minutes before shutting it off after a full-load operation. This allows adequate cool down of pistons, cylinders, bearings, and turbocharger components.
NOTE: For engines equipped with an electronic control module (ECM) ensure the keyswitch is turned off for a minimum of 60 seconds prior to disconnecting the continuous (unswitched) battery power supply. If the unswitched battery power supply is disconnected in less than 60 seconds after the keyswitch is turned off active fault codes and incorrect ECM information can occur.

Turn the ignition switch to the OFF position. If the engine does not shut down, refer to Troubleshooting Symptom (Section TS) in appropriate Operation and Maintenance manual.
NOTE: For engines equipped with an electronic control module (ECM) ensure the keyswitch is turned off for a minimum of 60 seconds prior to disconnecting the continuous (unswitched) battery power supply. If the unswitched battery power supply is disconnected in less than 60 seconds after the keyswitch is turned off active fault codes and incorrect ECM information can occur.
CAUTION

Failure to follow the correct shutdown procedure may result in damage to the turbocharger and shorten the turbocharger life.

SMALL | MEDIUM | LARGE


Last Modified: 05-Apr-2011
Feedback / Help
Copyright © 2000-2010 Cummins Inc. All rights reserved.


Every engine has the same shut down theory with coolant cooled turbochargers.
 
No problem. I don't like to shut ANY engine down abruptly if I've been beating on it. They all spike the coolant temp up something fierce at the least.

But I'm speaking to cars. Few of them have the huge wheel you're comparing here. And the facts are obvious. With extended warranties of 110k miles on most anything these days I am certain the cars would have it if it was needed for long term life.

NO ONE sweats the details like OEM.
 
Trying to trick the car into running while allowing you to lock it an walk away may be tough. I put a timer in my 1.8t about 10 years ago. Cheap, 60 bucks, and took 3 wires to hook up, plus I had a little cubby in the dash where it fit perfectly. I have over 145k on my factory turbo, and I chipped it at 45k which took the boost from 8 to 16psi. Turbo still holds 16 to this date, with not evev a quart needed between OCIs. I run it for 60 seconds after the keys off. Not sure if that was a direct factor in its longevity, Im sure the 5k syn ocis didnt hurt either. For the money and time it took, it was well worth the peace of mind. For newer cars, Im not so sure.
 
Hey, Audios, could you.PM me about the S4 you have for sale? I am on my phone typing this and I have trouble writing PMs from it.
Thanks!
Sorry for the thread interruption!
 
I think we're all on the same page. What I like about here more than some forums is that we can all disagree and DISCUSS our differences of opinions without flying off the handle.
cheers3.gif


I appreciate the info from Cummins, but I'm not sure the same theory holds true for all turbos. Again, I'm not promoting shutting down directly after a heavy load. My philosophy is that, normally (99% of the time) I have a portion of highway, decel. off an on-ramp, stop at redlight/stop-sign/etc, and then a short period where I pull in and actually park before shutting the engine down. In these cases, such as on the NJT, I-95 or even on a back road, I'm rarely going 0000-to-the-wall just prior to pulling off, so, regardless of convective/conductive heat transfer, there simply isn't a need to idle to cool down.

The best cooling my engine/turbo will ever see is while cruising at-speed, with full airflow through the hood scoop and through the radiator. Sitting there idling will only increase under-hood temps - not that this has anything to do with turbo cooldown.

I'm going to agree with the Cummins article that shutting down after FULL LOAD operation might have a deleterious effect, though, with my (and I'd wager most driver's) driving habits it's a moot point. Besides, how long would a tiny, alloy wheel take to cooldown to idle EGT's? I ask because I don't know. I also don't know whether the cooling from wheel to shaft to coolant is sufficient in ALL circumstances, but, in my scenario, the risk is not worth sitting there burning 0.3 gph to me.

In the end, turbine cooldown falls into the peace-of-mind category of engine care and maintenance, in that it might be good and is definitely NOT going to cause any harm. There are certain over-maintenance trends that will probably do good, and in some cases are absolutely necessary, it pays to over-maintain (e.g. ATF changes, more-frequent oil changes, PSF changes, brake fluid changes.) Others, however, are more likely for peace-of-mind only, and while they don't cause any harm and may provide minor benefit, they really only add cost for minimal gain (e.g. excessive idle time to warm up, additive use, cooldown times, especially for N/A vehicles.)

It feels good to do right by our vehicles, and I'm certainly not known for under or even only adequately maintaining my vehicles, so everything I've typed may be a bit hypocritical, but that doesn't make them any less true. We all pick that which we deem necessary to overmaintain, maintain per the book, and what we probably neglect more than we should. Most times, unlike some of our philosophies on turbo cooldown, they're based on anecdotes and personal feelings, not anything practical or empirical.
 
Full load operation to an immediate dead engine is not normally encountered with street vehicles.
Of course it can be, but that is really a very special circumstance.
 
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