Amsoil SSO 0-30w, 12.3k miles, 08 GMC Acadia 3.6L

[jetman]

My goal with extended OCIs is to minimize the waste of my time and our natural resources. But we don't want wear out our vehicles prematurely.

LAB: OIL ANALYZERS(Indy)

The first #s are from Dec.2010. The oil had 8.1k miles and 8 mths.

The second #s are from May 2011. The oil had 14.3k miles and 13 mths.

The third #s are from Feb 2012. The oil had 12.3k miles and 9 mths.

I installed a TopDog engine oil bypass filter system w/EaBP90 bypass filter in Jan. of 2011. At the same time, I modified the FF oil filter adapter to accept a larger diameter filter. I've had an Amsoil Ea011 in the FF position since the last change. Oil capacity is 6 qts.

The car had 68,300 miles at the 3rd sample. There wasn't any makeup oil added. It doesn't use any oil. The air filter element has been in place for 14 mths and there aren't any leaks in the induction system that I can find?. The car doesn't use any anti-freeze(DexCool).

Lab Comments: Lubricant and filter change is suggested if not done at sampling time; Total Base Number is SEVERELY LOW; Infrared results indicate OXIDATION is SEVERELY HIGH; Infrared results indicate that NITRATION is at a MINOR LEVEL; SILICON is high, however, there does not appear to be any wear as a result; SILICON sources can be abrasives (dirt, Alumina Silica), seals and gasket material, lube additive or lube supplement, and/or environmental contaminant; FUEL DILUTION is at a MINOR LEVEL.
Code:




WEAR METALS-PPM

Iron 20....42....25

Chromium 0......0....0

Copper 7......7....5

Tin 0......0....0

Lead 0......0....0

Chrom 0......0....0

Nickel 0......0....0

Alum 5......6....5

Silver 0......0....0

Cadmium 0......0....0

Vanadium 0......0....0

CONTAMINANT METALS-PPM

Silicon 42.....50....64

Sodium 15.....27....22

Potassium 4......3.....4

MULTI SOURCE METALS

Manganese 3......3....1

Titan 0......0....0

Molybdenum 10.....8....4

Antim 0......0....0

Lithium 0......0....0

Boron 9......7....7

ADDITIVE METALS-PPM

Magnesium 12......12....13

Calcium 3115..2949..3269

Barium 0......0.....0

Phosph 542...554...588

Zinc 627...642...613



V100C 10.1...10.4...10.1

I-R Oxidation 44......63.....72

I-R Nitra 35......42.....47

TBN 8.01...1.72...1.67

Fuel
Soot Vol

I'm ok with the results except for the fuel dilution? This is the wifes car and she does alot of short trips. Maybe taking a sample in the winter time needs to be done after a long trip, and not after a bunch of short ones? Do you think I need to clean the MAF sensor? It's never been cleaned.

What do ya think please???

I changed the oil with Amsoil again, and I changed the FF filter to a Fram XG2 this time. I drained the old oil out of the bypass filter, refilled it w/new oil, then reinstalled it full of new oil. I'm thinkin about doing the next analysis at 11k miles?

 

[Chevys_n_Hawgs]

The oil looks to be on par, considering the vehicle is used for a lot of short trips. In my opinion, with you being in Texas, that the 0W-30 is somewhat overkill. I don't know what kind of car you have, or engine size, but I would stick with the 5W-30, or even the 10W-30. Just my 2 cents.


I just noticed the car and engine in the title. I'd still go with the 5W-30.

 

[ltslimjim]

Great run overall.

Fuel dillution is a head scratcher for me, not experienced in diagnosing that area, really.

Injector efficiency spray pattern or running rich often(short trips during the winter leading to richer conditions = more fuel)?

The only other area to note is silicon, over 5 ppm / 1,000 miles. Not a good rate. I prefer less than 3 ppm / 1,000 miles as a rule of thumb. Otherwise, great run.

Check air filtration/filter.

By the way, your bypass could be keeping numbers down. Looks to be helping in that area.

Best to see what's actually happening and not try to 'curb' the numbers. If there is fuel dilution, let's see it. So, this is a more realistic display of the fuel present during these short winter trips.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: Chevys_n_Hawgs
The oil looks to be on par, considering the vehicle is used for a lot of short trips. In my opinion, with you being in Texas, that the 0W-30 is somewhat overkill. I don't know what kind of car you have, or engine size, but I would stick with the 5W-30, or even the 10W-30. Just my 2 cents.


Maybe if fuel dilution were to stay spiked, perhaps observe for TBN retention more, but otherwise it didn't seem to cause any issues outside of that.

 

[Chevys_n_Hawgs]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Originally Posted By: Chevys_n_Hawgs
The oil looks to be on par, considering the vehicle is used for a lot of short trips. In my opinion, with you being in Texas, that the 0W-30 is somewhat overkill. I don't know what kind of car you have, or engine size, but I would stick with the 5W-30, or even the 10W-30. Just my 2 cents.


Maybe if fuel dilution were to stay spiked, perhaps observe for TBN retention more, but otherwise it didn't seem to cause any issues outside of that.


Unless the driving habits drastically change, the fuel dilution will be there. Being in a southern state, I would definately go with the 5W-30.

 

[Turk]

I agree with you, analyze at 11k miles next time.

5w-30 ASL would be fine too.

Did you use the new Sig. Series AZO or did you put in the same formula SSO?? AZO should have a nice shot of Moly in it.

Check/Change the air filter & check the entire passage system for leaks.

 

[svhanc]

Is the Acadia 3.6L a Direct Injection engine? I seem to remember them being more prone to fuel dilution due to the fuel being sprayed directly into the combustion chamber rather than atomized prior to the combustion chamber. On short trips when everything is not at temperature and it is running rich it may be getting past the rings and diluting the oil.

 

[dnewton3]

OK - I'm going to ask the outside questions.

1) when did the OLM indicate an OCI was due, and how far over did you go?
2) are you getting the "value" out of premium syn and bypass?
3) what are you doing about finding your air leak? (with 68k miles and multiple OCIs, this isn't sealer unless you've had ongoing work on the engine)
4) is it "normal" for these engines to shed so much Fe? I'm not familiar with these engines
5) why is the oxidation so darn high? (short trips don't contribute much heat to the oil).
6) did you do any UOAs with dino oils previously to see how well they held up in a "normal" OCI?

It's not so much that the engine is hurting; I think it's probably fine. It's just that for the expenditure (Amsoil and bypass) you're not getting very much life out of the lube at all. 12k miles and the TBN is spent and the oxidation is "severely high"? Yikes. That's disappointing.

As for your Si, are you removing and reinstalling the BP filter every OCI? That could account for the introduction of dirt into the system.

The key point I'm trying to distinguish is that you're getting the full life from the fluid; clearly you've used it to the end of it's lifecycle. But are you getting real "value" out of your syn/BP set up? I understand your stated goal of conserving resources and reduced maintenance downtime, but when it costs you nearly 4x more money, at some point you should stand back and ask if it's worth it. Maybe it is to you. If so, then you've found the end of the road; I'd say 12k+ miles is about the limit. Three consequtive OCIs are telling you just that.

One last note; bypass filters do a great job of cleaning the oil. But in doing so, they also remove some of the evidence of wear. Most BP filters are capable of removing stuff down to about 2-3um in size with near absolute efficiency. A UOA can see stuff up to 5um in size. In effect, a BP filter element removes some of the wear metal signature in a UOA. And your Fe is already elevated a bit (but I don't know where a "universal average" would be for this engine). In short, your Fe count would be higher in a non-bypass "normal" UOA.

It would be really nice to know how this engine would compare/contrast on a "normal" oil and filter. You might be spending a lot of money and not really gaining much.

 

[demarpaint]

This comment you made pretty much says it all!
Originally Posted By: jetman
My goal with extended OCIs is to minimize the waste of my time and our natural resources. But we don't want wear out our vehicles prematurely.



Shorten the OCI, or you probably will wear the engine out prematurely. Extended OCIs aren't for everyone. Why play with fire? JMO

 

[gathermewool]

It might be that the added capacity is maintaining your oil temps too low, and is exacerbated by short trips. I'd suggest finding a different oil for your app. Pablo?

 

[jetman]

I put two types of Amsoil back in. 2 qts of SSO 0-30w, and 4 qts of AMO 10-40w. In the future, I plan to run 100% AMO in our vehicles.

I would guess the avg trip length of this vehicle is about 5 country miles.

The engine does not have Direct Injection.

We had a minor external water pump leak this past yr and had it changed under warranty. No overheating. The vehicle hasn't needed any other maintenance. It's been a good car so far. Sometimes these engines have timing chain issues and the trannys(6T75)have "wave plate" issues. I recently changed the ATF early w/Amsoil. We changed the coolant and PS fluid early w/Amsoil products too.

We do not pay any attention to the OLM. We do oil analysis and have modified the vehicle with: 1) better oil, 2) more oil capacity, 3) a bypass system, 4) a better FF filter.

We use the same oil and bypass setup in our 07 Toyota 4.0L. We go about 17k miles between changes with simular results. The difference may be that the Toyotas avg trip length is about 15 country miles.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[tig1]

Fuel is a little high but 10-12K is no problem for this engine. Should last for many years. What about flash point.

 

[Pablo]

First of all one of the better Acadia extended change OCI's we've seen. But you need to find the source of Si. Is there an high Si alloy in this engine? It can't be from the Al alloy (pistons for example) as the Al ppm is quite low.

Fe of 25ppm at 12K miles is not super high, it's just not great - but you are not wearing your engine out prematurely. The fact that larger particles are filtered out is a good thing. Look at the other Acadia UOA's (and other 3.6 UOA's) Got news: Yours does not look so bad. One guy had 34ppm in 4.6K. You should search out some of the threads. (Punch in "acadia" in the GAS UOA section, select blanks in the newer than line and older than 1 week in the older than line)

Lastly remember this oil starts with a Oxidation number around 30-55 or so - 72 is high but not hair on fire high. TBN is depressed. But good gawd your fuel is 2.5%. The oil viscosity did not take a hit - but your TBN and Oxidation number are directly related to that fuel. This could be a sampling thing, but you know your car dumps fuel.

I say seek the Si source, watch that fuel and carry on. Your new blend will be very interesting - here's to hoping the Si drops!

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: jetman
I recently changed the ATF early w/Amsoil. We changed the coolant and PS fluid early w/Amsoil products too.


If you're trying to save resources, why are you changing the other fluids "EARLY"?

What are the recommended change intervals for the coolant, PS fluid and transmission?

Nice UOA, although i expected better but i guess this engine is tough on oil + the short trips.

 

[Brons2]

Other than the Si, I think these results are very good. I would be happy with them in my car. Fuel dilution is 2.5, yes, but the viscosity is good. TBN is 1.6, maybe a tad low if not using the Blackstone type method. Maybe cut back to 11,000 miles time.

I don't understand the comments about the Fe, this is a 12,300 mile run. Iron is right at 2PPM/1K miles. That's a good number.

Nice report. Fix the Si issue and maybe cut back on distance just a tad, otherwise, keep on keeping on.

 

[buster]

Fe is low. Who determined Fe over 20ppm is bad? Do people not read the thread about uoa limitations?

 

[ltslimjim]

It looks like AZO hasn't been used yet, so it'll be interesting to see if the results change any. I'd go 11,000 or 10 months; max, before a re-sample on AZO.

Artem, he may have changed fluids early in order to convert his vehicle to all Amsoil products prematurely, out of OCD...but in the long run if the use works he saves resources with less changes over the life of the vehicle for sure. Too bad resource saving comes at a premium price. Ironic, isn't it? lol

Not sure if Si would be from an engine part? Hard to find true silicon entry numbers then, huh?

Yes, this combo would've been spent sooner without the bypass. It's true.

Let's see how AZO does, if the OP continues with the setup for now. It's got boron and moly, so a different formulation indeed. Personally, it's overkill but for the app it could make 1 year intervals(or say 14,000 miles?) do able.

The 'entry' of higher fuel dilution is a concern. If it's a result of mounting short trips, cut back to 9 months or 11,000 tops then re-sample.

I can't help but wondering: How would this have looked with 1 long highway drive a week?

 

[Artem]

Valvoline NextGen is perfect for tree huggers. Return your used NextGen and repurchase it and use it again and again next time

 

[dnewton3]

The source of the Si might have been the water pump replacement?

With the TBN this low, and the oxidation this high, I think he's about at the end of the lifecycle, although he did have a 14k mile run that was similar. Having a TAN might help too, but at some point you've got to ask just how much $ to spend on info, versus an OCI.


The Fe count is just a bit "hidden" by the bypass somewhat, but still probably at an accetpable rate of wear. Could be better; could be worse. Apparently a shedder of Fe, this engine family?

Overall, I think the engine is fine.

 

[Brons2]

Originally Posted By: buster
Fe is low. Who determined Fe over 20ppm is bad?


Especially considering the high mileage on this sample...