Is there such a thing as a Blow out proof tire?Is there a type of tire that is very Blow out resistant?Do any brands stand out as being outstanding under normal driving conditions?Were bias ply tires more robust?Any feedback about Kevlar tires?
Blow out proof tires
- Thread starter spock1
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gathermewool
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Any good, non-defective tire, if you keep them inflated properly and don't gouge the sidewall.
Spock,
Probably the best place to start is with a definition of "Blow out".
a) A rapid loss of inflation pressure, an explosion
b) A tire failure where the tire comes apart radidly, a tread separation.
c) A tire failure where the resulting condition is mis-identified as having derived from a raid loss of inflation pressure - a run-flat resulting from a puncture.
The first one means that any airless tire would qualify - but the rest of your post would seem to say you aren't looking for those - so I'm not going to address those.
If we consider ruptures due to impact - these are more a function of aspect ratio than anything else - meaing that differences between brands would be hard to pick out.
I'm also going to guess you didn't mean the second type.
And the last one - probably the most common usage of the word. This is almost completely driven by punctures that are undetected. The result is 3 pieces - both sidewalls and the tread in the form of a hoop. There is literally no difference between brands on this.
But RunFlat tires are designed to address this issue - albeit on a short term basis - and I assume you don't mean those.
So were bias tires better? No.
Kevlar? The only places I have seen Kevlar used is either in place of the steel belts - and besides the gimmick factor, I see no advantage - and as a barrier to penetration in the sidewall - and there I can see an advantage.
So does that answer your questions?
Probably the best place to start is with a definition of "Blow out".
a) A rapid loss of inflation pressure, an explosion
b) A tire failure where the tire comes apart radidly, a tread separation.
c) A tire failure where the resulting condition is mis-identified as having derived from a raid loss of inflation pressure - a run-flat resulting from a puncture.
The first one means that any airless tire would qualify - but the rest of your post would seem to say you aren't looking for those - so I'm not going to address those.
If we consider ruptures due to impact - these are more a function of aspect ratio than anything else - meaing that differences between brands would be hard to pick out.
I'm also going to guess you didn't mean the second type.
And the last one - probably the most common usage of the word. This is almost completely driven by punctures that are undetected. The result is 3 pieces - both sidewalls and the tread in the form of a hoop. There is literally no difference between brands on this.
But RunFlat tires are designed to address this issue - albeit on a short term basis - and I assume you don't mean those.
So were bias tires better? No.
Kevlar? The only places I have seen Kevlar used is either in place of the steel belts - and besides the gimmick factor, I see no advantage - and as a barrier to penetration in the sidewall - and there I can see an advantage.
So does that answer your questions?
Run flat tires are the only blow-out proof tires. If conventional tires get severely damaged, huge hole or long slash, they will loose air immediately and at high speed this would be a blow-out, with tire being thrown/unseated off the rim. Loss of control of the car is almost immediate.
Once a tire becomes unseated from the rim, it is useless. The different conventional constructions (bias-ply or radial) don't make any difference in preventing a tire being unseated from the rim.
Run flat tires, by virtual of their stiff, reinforced sidewalls, can remain functional for at least 50 miles at 55 mph. I have seen them driven with one inch diameter holes in the sidewalls. I also have heard accounts of them being okay after large slashes in the tread/sidewall.
Once a tire becomes unseated from the rim, it is useless. The different conventional constructions (bias-ply or radial) don't make any difference in preventing a tire being unseated from the rim.
Run flat tires, by virtual of their stiff, reinforced sidewalls, can remain functional for at least 50 miles at 55 mph. I have seen them driven with one inch diameter holes in the sidewalls. I also have heard accounts of them being okay after large slashes in the tread/sidewall.
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I know more than one Corvette owner who was HUGELY disappointed to find out his expensive run-flats were ruined by driving on them uninflated.
Many people seem to think they can just be pumped back up when you get to a source of air!
Many people seem to think they can just be pumped back up when you get to a source of air!
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I know more than one Corvette owner who was HUGELY disappointed to find out his expensive run-flats were ruined by driving on them uninflated.
Many people seem to think they can just be pumped back up when you get to a source of air!
That's why run flat tires should only be used with a tire monitoring system (mandated on all cars in 2007). Early Corvette run flat tires (1997-2004) were okay for 1) 50 miles at 55 mph and then could be repaired OR 2) 200 miles for 55 mph and must be replaced. Later Corvette OEM tires were only okay for 50 miles (they made them ride softer, i.e. less stiff sidewalls).
Some non-OEM run flats must be replaced after ANY running deflated.
Of course, depending on damage, any tire might not be repairable (e.g. sidewall puncture).
Other cars now use run flat tires, including BMW, Honda (Honda no longer use them), Toyota, Lexus SC 430, the MINI Cooper and Cooper S, and Rolls-Royce.
I know more than one Corvette owner who was HUGELY disappointed to find out his expensive run-flats were ruined by driving on them uninflated.
Many people seem to think they can just be pumped back up when you get to a source of air!
That's why run flat tires should only be used with a tire monitoring system (mandated on all cars in 2007). Early Corvette run flat tires (1997-2004) were okay for 1) 50 miles at 55 mph and then could be repaired OR 2) 200 miles for 55 mph and must be replaced. Later Corvette OEM tires were only okay for 50 miles (they made them ride softer, i.e. less stiff sidewalls).
Some non-OEM run flats must be replaced after ANY running deflated.
Of course, depending on damage, any tire might not be repairable (e.g. sidewall puncture).
Other cars now use run flat tires, including BMW, Honda (Honda no longer use them), Toyota, Lexus SC 430, the MINI Cooper and Cooper S, and Rolls-Royce.
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Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Kevlar? The only places I have seen Kevlar used is either in place of the steel belts - and besides the gimmick factor, I see no advantage - and as a barrier to penetration in the sidewall - and there I can see an advantage.
Just on a side note not related to automotive tires-Titan Tire has been putting kevlar in ag tires with outstanding puncture resistance. Newer corn hybrids have extremely tough stalks, and ag equipment has been suffering a huge number of tire punctures, both tread and sidewall. The Kevlar tires are virtually eliminating the field puncture issue, and are much more than a gimmick.
Again, I can't speak for automotive tires.
Kevlar? The only places I have seen Kevlar used is either in place of the steel belts - and besides the gimmick factor, I see no advantage - and as a barrier to penetration in the sidewall - and there I can see an advantage.
Just on a side note not related to automotive tires-Titan Tire has been putting kevlar in ag tires with outstanding puncture resistance. Newer corn hybrids have extremely tough stalks, and ag equipment has been suffering a huge number of tire punctures, both tread and sidewall. The Kevlar tires are virtually eliminating the field puncture issue, and are much more than a gimmick.
Again, I can't speak for automotive tires.
Originally Posted By: spock1
Is there such a thing as a Blow out proof tire?Is there a type of tire that is very Blow out resistant?Do any brands stand out as being outstanding under normal driving conditions?Were bias ply tires more robust?Any feedback about Kevlar tires?
Capriracer has given you a thorough understanding - I'll simply say this: nearly all blowouts occur from people running on under-inflated tires.
Blowouts are not difficult to handle - I hit a piece of steel in the road while towing a trailer with a Volvo wagon - catastrophic tread damage to the tire...I let off the gas, slowed and pulled over.
Buy a gauge, use it, watch the road.
Is there such a thing as a Blow out proof tire?Is there a type of tire that is very Blow out resistant?Do any brands stand out as being outstanding under normal driving conditions?Were bias ply tires more robust?Any feedback about Kevlar tires?
Capriracer has given you a thorough understanding - I'll simply say this: nearly all blowouts occur from people running on under-inflated tires.
Blowouts are not difficult to handle - I hit a piece of steel in the road while towing a trailer with a Volvo wagon - catastrophic tread damage to the tire...I let off the gas, slowed and pulled over.
Buy a gauge, use it, watch the road.
Thanks!I guess that my next tires will be Runflats.This should help me sleep better at nights and make for a more relaxed driving style.I have never experienced a Blow Out but I have heard horror stories about complete families being wiped out after losing control of their vehicle.I would assume that the worst offenders would be vehicles having a high centre of gravity such as minivans and SUV's.
Thanks POP RIVET.I suspected that there was some value to adding Kevlar to tires
Originally Posted By: spock1
Thanks!I guess that my next tires will be Runflats.This should help me sleep better at nights and make for a more relaxed driving style.I have never experienced a Blow Out but I have heard horror stories about complete families being wiped out after losing control of their vehicle.I would assume that the worst offenders would be vehicles having a high centre of gravity such as minivans and SUV's.
You're hearing horror stories of gross driver error (but the news never says that...). Google Car and Driver's test with a Ford Explorer - they set up explosive loss of air and couldn't get the thing to roll over...even if they let go of the wheel.
When the Volvo's tire (240 wagon with a 3,000lb trailer) went with a bang - I had to counter the bit of pull, the tire was flapping, I slowed, gently applied the brakes and pulled off the road. My then-2-year old daughter was asleep in her car seat in the back...she didn't even stir....
Keep your hands on the wheel. Steer the car. Don't panic.
Thanks!I guess that my next tires will be Runflats.This should help me sleep better at nights and make for a more relaxed driving style.I have never experienced a Blow Out but I have heard horror stories about complete families being wiped out after losing control of their vehicle.I would assume that the worst offenders would be vehicles having a high centre of gravity such as minivans and SUV's.
You're hearing horror stories of gross driver error (but the news never says that...). Google Car and Driver's test with a Ford Explorer - they set up explosive loss of air and couldn't get the thing to roll over...even if they let go of the wheel.
When the Volvo's tire (240 wagon with a 3,000lb trailer) went with a bang - I had to counter the bit of pull, the tire was flapping, I slowed, gently applied the brakes and pulled off the road. My then-2-year old daughter was asleep in her car seat in the back...she didn't even stir....
Keep your hands on the wheel. Steer the car. Don't panic.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: spock1
Thanks!I guess that my next tires will be Runflats.This should help me sleep better at nights and make for a more relaxed driving style.I have never experienced a Blow Out but I have heard horror stories about complete families being wiped out after losing control of their vehicle.I would assume that the worst offenders would be vehicles having a high centre of gravity such as minivans and SUV's.
You're hearing horror stories of gross driver error (but the news never says that...). Google Car and Driver's test with a Ford Explorer - they set up explosive loss of air and couldn't get the thing to roll over...even if they let go of the wheel.
When the Volvo's tire (240 wagon with a 3,000lb trailer) went with a bang - I had to counter the bit of pull, the tire was flapping, I slowed, gently applied the brakes and pulled off the road. My then-2-year old daughter was asleep in her car seat in the back...she didn't even stir....
Keep your hands on the wheel. Steer the car. Don't panic.
Did you ever consider that your trailer may have helped you maintain control of your car? You effectively had a longer wheelbase with more tires on the road. These helped in keeping your car going straight. Had one of just four tires failed, the results might have been different.
Also did you have a severe blowout and tire failure? Was the tire off the rim when you stopped? If not, then you didn't experience the worse case. Let's not take one data point and draw conclusions for all cases.
I too had a blowout on a bridge in a 6,300 pound Van when a tube cut a 1/4 inch hole in my tire. My daughter slept through that too. But, I know that wasn't worse case, plus it was only 45 mph, but scary all the same.
Originally Posted By: spock1
Thanks!I guess that my next tires will be Runflats.This should help me sleep better at nights and make for a more relaxed driving style.I have never experienced a Blow Out but I have heard horror stories about complete families being wiped out after losing control of their vehicle.I would assume that the worst offenders would be vehicles having a high centre of gravity such as minivans and SUV's.
You're hearing horror stories of gross driver error (but the news never says that...). Google Car and Driver's test with a Ford Explorer - they set up explosive loss of air and couldn't get the thing to roll over...even if they let go of the wheel.
When the Volvo's tire (240 wagon with a 3,000lb trailer) went with a bang - I had to counter the bit of pull, the tire was flapping, I slowed, gently applied the brakes and pulled off the road. My then-2-year old daughter was asleep in her car seat in the back...she didn't even stir....
Keep your hands on the wheel. Steer the car. Don't panic.
Did you ever consider that your trailer may have helped you maintain control of your car? You effectively had a longer wheelbase with more tires on the road. These helped in keeping your car going straight. Had one of just four tires failed, the results might have been different.
Also did you have a severe blowout and tire failure? Was the tire off the rim when you stopped? If not, then you didn't experience the worse case. Let's not take one data point and draw conclusions for all cases.
I too had a blowout on a bridge in a 6,300 pound Van when a tube cut a 1/4 inch hole in my tire. My daughter slept through that too. But, I know that wasn't worse case, plus it was only 45 mph, but scary all the same.
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Originally Posted By: spock1
Thanks!I guess that my next tires will be Runflats.This should help me sleep better at nights and make for a more relaxed driving style.
Depends on what you mean by "more relaxed driving style". Runflats are notorious for having very stiff sidewalls, thus resulting in fairly uncomfortable ride, 100% of the time. Most BMW owners whose cars get runflats as OEM tires can't wait to get rid of them and install regular tires.
Thanks!I guess that my next tires will be Runflats.This should help me sleep better at nights and make for a more relaxed driving style.
Depends on what you mean by "more relaxed driving style". Runflats are notorious for having very stiff sidewalls, thus resulting in fairly uncomfortable ride, 100% of the time. Most BMW owners whose cars get runflats as OEM tires can't wait to get rid of them and install regular tires.
Thank!My anxiety level has dropped down considerably.
^^^This is my experience.
I could not believe the difference going from a rough riding run flat to a normal tire. It was huge.
I could not believe the difference going from a rough riding run flat to a normal tire. It was huge.
They are correct, run flats do ride rough, even in cars where there are factory standard, where these cars have special softer suspension to counter-act them.
For instance, Honda does NOT recommend replacing their (failed) michelin PAX run flat tires on their Odyssey Vans with conventional tires due to trouble with the handling/suspension if you do.
Therefore, putting run flats on a car not made for them would really make the ride rough.
Lastly, get ready for this, run flats can easily cost $1500 or more for four tires ! Even tire installation is more expensive, these stiff tires are hard to install !
For instance, Honda does NOT recommend replacing their (failed) michelin PAX run flat tires on their Odyssey Vans with conventional tires due to trouble with the handling/suspension if you do.
Therefore, putting run flats on a car not made for them would really make the ride rough.
Lastly, get ready for this, run flats can easily cost $1500 or more for four tires ! Even tire installation is more expensive, these stiff tires are hard to install !
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This makes me question the whole idea behind Run Flat tires.Who are the typical users?Why bother?
Originally Posted By: spock1
This makes me question the whole idea behind Run Flat tires.Who are the typical users?Why bother?
The users are cars that do not come with a spare tire.
In order to save money and trunk space, some car MFGs now don't give you an actual spare tire, not even a donut. So if you end up going back to non-runflats, you will need to buy yourself a spare as well.
The idea behind runflats is that you don't have to pull over on the side of a busy highway in the middle of the night or snow blizzard to change a tire, risking getting run over by another vehicle or getting your business suit dirty.
You can make it to a nearby tire shop who will either fix the tire or sell you a new one.
This makes me question the whole idea behind Run Flat tires.Who are the typical users?Why bother?
The users are cars that do not come with a spare tire.
The idea behind runflats is that you don't have to pull over on the side of a busy highway in the middle of the night or snow blizzard to change a tire, risking getting run over by another vehicle or getting your business suit dirty.
Also, don't ever plan on having a flat more than 50 miles from a tire dealer that has your brand and size in stock. A flat in a remote area in the U.S. or Canada can put you off the road for days.
Ed
Ed
Vette owner - the blowout happened when a piece of metal (which must have been kicked up by a vehicle in front of me...but I never saw it) in the road cut a 3" gash in the tread. I was traveling at approximately 60 MPH on the highway. I felt and heard the BOOM of the tire failing and instant loss of all air (hence my use of the word catastrophic to describe it). The steering wheel and car started shaking and pulling to the right instantly from the flapping remains of the deflated carcase. By the time I stopped on the shoulder, the tire was destroyed, shreds of sidewall on the rim connected to what was left of the tread....what would you consider severe?
The trailer was actually destabilizing in its influence on the car, since it put more weight on the rear, altering the car's CG and reducing its directional control...and this blowout was on the right front.
The point is: worst case; heavily loaded, destabilized, instant blowout, is controllable if you don't make sudden, panic inputs.
To the OP - skip the run-flats. Take care of your tires. The Ford Explorers were all under-inflated, overloaded and every driver who rolled one, rolled it becasue they panicked... I've been driving for 34+ years...and I have only had one real blowout...if you take care of your tires, it's really unlikely.
If you don't panic, and simply drive the car, it's not that big of a deal when one happens.
The trailer was actually destabilizing in its influence on the car, since it put more weight on the rear, altering the car's CG and reducing its directional control...and this blowout was on the right front.
The point is: worst case; heavily loaded, destabilized, instant blowout, is controllable if you don't make sudden, panic inputs.
To the OP - skip the run-flats. Take care of your tires. The Ford Explorers were all under-inflated, overloaded and every driver who rolled one, rolled it becasue they panicked... I've been driving for 34+ years...and I have only had one real blowout...if you take care of your tires, it's really unlikely.
If you don't panic, and simply drive the car, it's not that big of a deal when one happens.
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