Trade it for a Ford and be done with the headache. If the Truck still has a warranty let someone else fight with Nissan.quote:
Originally posted by VicTitan:
Thanks for all your input. The Nissan dealership is really giving me a hard time with this...they will NOT give me a new truck or even work with me for new truck/some cash (tried that yesterday...what a joke). They basically ignored all those UOA's...they said that has no bearing on oil consumption...huh?
Are they goofy or what?
They will NOT move on this test thing...they MUST due this stupid oil consumption test deal, which is major inconvenience to me...like I don't have enough on my plate with work, health issues, etc.
I've been in conversation with Terry (what a great guy...thanks TD), and his take on this "test" is basically Nissan wanting to make sure the truck is indeed a problem child engine. He stated go with it but be ready to play hardball.
As I stated before, what a bunch of crap.
I will be in contact with Nissan corporate today...I'm sure that will be fun.
As of this post, I am using appx. 1 quart of oil every 500-600 miles.
Terrible oil sample analysis!!-Mobil 1 5W30-1,627 Miles-2005 Nissan Titan 5.6L
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[/QUOTE]Trade it for a Ford and be done with the headache. If the Truck still has a warranty let someone else fight with Nissan. [/QUOTE]
Of course the truck is still under warranty.
How 'bout a Toyota Tundra...
Of course the truck is still under warranty.
How 'bout a Toyota Tundra...
I disagree with the trade in method because he will lose $3k on trade in than what he owes on it. that itself is almost enough to pay for a new engine. He shouldn't have to pay for Nissan not wanting to fix the engine. I would do the lemon law.
If it's possible for you Vic, i'd play hardball with the dealership.
What is really amazing to me about this case is not the wear metals contained in the first UOA, but the fact that no one on this Board is willing to place any blame on brand X1. I've heard some bad stories about this oil on BITOG, but this one just takes the cake. If the reduced wear metals on the second UOA don't tell you guys anything, then there is no hope for you.
VicTitan:
If you're not able to get a replacement truck from Nissan, continue using the German Castrol 0W-30, and don't look back.
VicTitan:
If you're not able to get a replacement truck from Nissan, continue using the German Castrol 0W-30, and don't look back.
Well, respectfully, others here are not blaming the oil because that's not a conclusion logically supported by the evidence. Look at the original numbers -- the additive package and physical properties of the oil are as they should be, only the wear numbers are out to lunch. In our collection of UOA, we have neither other Titans showing this sort of pattern, nor do we have M1 oil seeming to cause this sort of problem. Also, if the oil were failing badly in this truck, why are only the chromium and iron sky high? If this were some complete failure of the oil, I'd expect other elements to be out of sight too (lead and tin, especially). I suppose there could be some bizarre oil failure that impacts only the rings and cyl walls, and not the bearings, but that would seem far-fetched.
I've dealt with Terry Dyson (and will again in the future), and I've got confidence in the logic of his analysis. If he thinks that there's a problem with this engine, that's where I'd put my money.
What specifically about these numbers makes you think there's an oil issue, versus an engine problem?
ekpolk:
I'm not doubting the numbers or Mr. Dyson. I just think that it is a shame that everyone rushed to blame Nissan with all the different hypothesis, without giving a second thought to the oil.
By the way, if you look back at my post, you will notice that I had not used the 'M' word.
[ March 23, 2006, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: GoldenRod ]
I'm not doubting the numbers or Mr. Dyson. I just think that it is a shame that everyone rushed to blame Nissan with all the different hypothesis, without giving a second thought to the oil.
By the way, if you look back at my post, you will notice that I had not used the 'M' word.
[ March 23, 2006, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: GoldenRod ]
GR:
As the owner of a car powered by a Nissan-built engine, I have followed the thread with some interest. Before using GC, I had used various M1 products with great results (bias -- maybe). I did give the oil at least a look-and-a-half, if not a second look. I suppose it's possible that something strange is goiing on with this particular batch of oil, but not seeing any indicators of this in the data, I dismissed the problem oil theory. My mind is open, however; is there something I'm missing?
As the owner of a car powered by a Nissan-built engine, I have followed the thread with some interest. Before using GC, I had used various M1 products with great results (bias -- maybe). I did give the oil at least a look-and-a-half, if not a second look. I suppose it's possible that something strange is goiing on with this particular batch of oil, but not seeing any indicators of this in the data, I dismissed the problem oil theory. My mind is open, however; is there something I'm missing?
ekpolk:
Sometimes you just have to dismiss all the technical hoopla, and just go with your gut. I believe the technical term for what I just said is called "common sense."
Sometimes you just have to dismiss all the technical hoopla, and just go with your gut. I believe the technical term for what I just said is called "common sense."
Hi all...thanks (again) for the input...well here's what the latest is...I contacted Nissan USA so they were aware of what's going on, and they took most of the info. about this situation, and said a "Regional Specialist" will call within ~48 hours...I can't wait
**I need some input on this ASAP**:
The only other somewhat feasible option through Nissan (and this is with Sales, not through Nissan USA, etc.) is to trade my 2005 Titan LE 4x4 (bad motor, 9900+ miles, maybe a lemon) for a new 2006 Titan SE 4x2 with basically the same trim levels (actually a few extras, big tow pkg, etc)...I lose the 4x4 (not a high priority) and leather, and I get a new truck. The kicker is they want $2300 too...and that's a bit of a thorn in the side to me. If they would trade even-up, I think I would do it...new truck and warranty. But maybe the money is worth it to make this go away...look at my time, stress, etc. Yeah, I know it's "kinda giving in", but it IS an option...PLEASE let me know what you think about this option. That is $2300 out the door, all fees, etc...I give them my truck and the cash, I get new a 2006.
Now I'll answer / comment about some of the inquiries:
Bill in Utah:
And I do agree with most of your advice...thanks much
warrior pilot:
ekpolk, others:
MC5W20, Michael Wan, Cutehumor:
ekpolk, Goldenrod, etc:
I appreciate your input, but as far as what types of oil were used, did this oil cause that, etc. is not really an issue right now. I'm past that. Whether this oil caused this or that (which I don't really believe) it's got Nissan dino in it and I am positive it will use oil. The motor has high metal content and is using oil. The motor has serious engine issues, as indicated by Terry. It puffs blue smoke, the exhaust is black and sooty...I'm not trying to be smart and harsh, but I think we are past that. I'm sorry if that came off as abrasive, it's just been a long, tiring experience...thanks for your input.
Well, in summation, the Nissan "oil consumption test" is in progress, a Nissan USA "Regional Specialist" is suppossed to contact me, and I have an option to get a new 2006 truck for ~$2300 with trade.
BTW, they DID mark the oil drain nut, oil filter, and taped up the oil fill / cap with black electrical tape...looks a like a 5 year old did it...why would they do that? Why would I want to "add" oil on an oil consumption test
Thats all for now
**I need some input on this ASAP**:
The only other somewhat feasible option through Nissan (and this is with Sales, not through Nissan USA, etc.) is to trade my 2005 Titan LE 4x4 (bad motor, 9900+ miles, maybe a lemon) for a new 2006 Titan SE 4x2 with basically the same trim levels (actually a few extras, big tow pkg, etc)...I lose the 4x4 (not a high priority) and leather, and I get a new truck. The kicker is they want $2300 too...and that's a bit of a thorn in the side to me. If they would trade even-up, I think I would do it...new truck and warranty. But maybe the money is worth it to make this go away...look at my time, stress, etc. Yeah, I know it's "kinda giving in", but it IS an option...PLEASE let me know what you think about this option. That is $2300 out the door, all fees, etc...I give them my truck and the cash, I get new a 2006.
Now I'll answer / comment about some of the inquiries:
Bill in Utah:
I'd rather not name them, due to possible legal issues...let's just say they are north of Port Saint Lucie, FL.
And I do agree with most of your advice...thanks much
warrior pilot:
I'm sure you’re correct...I guess what I meant was I have BOTH issues, and I am using appx. 1 quart of oil every 500-600 miles. They should at least acknowledge the UOA's and Terry's interpretation. They really have not. Your point is well taken....thanks Chris...I pm'd you too
ekpolk, others:
I will give Nissan the chance with this "oil consumption test" and go from there. IF they jerk me around after that...well then that is an option, but cash is not flowing in at a high rate right now it would have to be a consignment type thing.
MC5W20, Michael Wan, Cutehumor:
See my scenario above with Nissan Sales...I could go the ford (or whoever) route, but I'd still be putting in some cash to somebody.
ekpolk, Goldenrod, etc:
I appreciate your input, but as far as what types of oil were used, did this oil cause that, etc. is not really an issue right now. I'm past that. Whether this oil caused this or that (which I don't really believe) it's got Nissan dino in it and I am positive it will use oil. The motor has high metal content and is using oil. The motor has serious engine issues, as indicated by Terry. It puffs blue smoke, the exhaust is black and sooty...I'm not trying to be smart and harsh, but I think we are past that. I'm sorry if that came off as abrasive, it's just been a long, tiring experience...thanks for your input.
Well, in summation, the Nissan "oil consumption test" is in progress, a Nissan USA "Regional Specialist" is suppossed to contact me, and I have an option to get a new 2006 truck for ~$2300 with trade.
BTW, they DID mark the oil drain nut, oil filter, and taped up the oil fill / cap with black electrical tape...looks a like a 5 year old did it...why would they do that? Why would I want to "add" oil on an oil consumption test
Thats all for now
Goldenrod, I am a big believer in seeing the forest and the trees.
The motor oil we tested from this engine was not damaged or defective regardless of brand. I agree that M1 wear control can be less than stellar for a premium "syn" but not at this level. This is a clear indication of a mechanical issue. Personally I wish the Dealer would tear into it and repair the issue BEFORE he has to replace an engine but his goal is to make sure there is indeed a problem. I suspect because of the ignorance of non destuctive UOA testing and they want Nissan to kick in the cash for the effort.
The engineering in this engine is wonderful but execution is always the kicker isn't it?
The motor oil we tested from this engine was not damaged or defective regardless of brand. I agree that M1 wear control can be less than stellar for a premium "syn" but not at this level. This is a clear indication of a mechanical issue. Personally I wish the Dealer would tear into it and repair the issue BEFORE he has to replace an engine but his goal is to make sure there is indeed a problem. I suspect because of the ignorance of non destuctive UOA testing and they want Nissan to kick in the cash for the effort.
The engineering in this engine is wonderful but execution is always the kicker isn't it?
Terry:
Vic: a perfectly sensible place to be. You used the right grade and spec of oil -- it's not as if you put maple syrup in the engine and caused this problem. Nissan needs to step up and do the right thing. Your patience with them is commendable. I wish you well.
Sorry for being redundant, I just don't want this part to be missed, as this is a LONG thread...mods, if this is a problem, let me know.
**I need some input on this ASAP**:
The only other somewhat feasible option through Nissan (and this is with Sales, not through Nissan USA, etc.) is to trade my 2005 Titan LE 4x4 (bad motor, 9900+ miles, maybe a lemon) for a new 2006 Titan SE 4x2 with basically the same trim levels (actually a few extras, big tow pkg, etc)...I lose the 4x4 (not a high priority) and leather, and I get a new truck. The kicker is they want $2300 too...and that's a bit of a thorn in the side to me. If they would trade even-up, I think I would do it...new truck and warranty. But maybe the money is worth it to make this go away...look at my time, stress, etc. Yeah, I know it's "kinda giving in", but it IS an option...PLEASE let me know what you think about this option. That is $2300 out the door, all fees, etc...I give them my truck and the cash, I get new a 2006 truck.
What's the consensus on this?...good deal, bad deal. It sure solves a ton of headaches.
You would think they would swap even up, but it is what it is...TIA.
Vic
**I need some input on this ASAP**:
The only other somewhat feasible option through Nissan (and this is with Sales, not through Nissan USA, etc.) is to trade my 2005 Titan LE 4x4 (bad motor, 9900+ miles, maybe a lemon) for a new 2006 Titan SE 4x2 with basically the same trim levels (actually a few extras, big tow pkg, etc)...I lose the 4x4 (not a high priority) and leather, and I get a new truck. The kicker is they want $2300 too...and that's a bit of a thorn in the side to me. If they would trade even-up, I think I would do it...new truck and warranty. But maybe the money is worth it to make this go away...look at my time, stress, etc. Yeah, I know it's "kinda giving in", but it IS an option...PLEASE let me know what you think about this option. That is $2300 out the door, all fees, etc...I give them my truck and the cash, I get new a 2006 truck.
What's the consensus on this?...good deal, bad deal. It sure solves a ton of headaches.
You would think they would swap even up, but it is what it is...TIA.
Vic
Vic:
This is dicey territory for me, since I happen to be a FL lawyer myself and our state bar is more rigid on ethics than a foot-thick block of billet aluminum. With the understanding that I'm not acting as your lawyer in this, rather, just a fellow BITOGer, I'd recommend a counter-offer, working toward either a flat out even swap or a payout in the lower half of the 0-2300 range.
I've owned two 1998 Buick Regal GSs (the neat, supercharged, snap-your-neck accel version...). The first went away after six months and 10k miles replaced with an identical new one (well, the colors were different, but same sticker price even). It certainly helped that I am a lawyer (no, it shouldn't be that way) and I was at the time employed by the golfing partner of the guy who owned the Buick dealership in town. With a bit of savvy negotiation, or perhaps your own lawyer's help, you should be able to do about as well. And don't forget to net out all the factors. You may pay some, but since you'd be getting a newer vehicle, when you drive away, you do so in something that's worth more, just by the book. You'll realize that advantage when it's time to sell the new truck.
And of course, dispute resolution is always driven by many factors well beyond what just the law would give you. Between one and two grand for a new truck vs. entrenching in a potentially months-long legal battle? If it were me, I'd probably make the deal (but of course, it's not me -- it's you and you get to decide). In short, I don't think that's a bad looking parachute they're offering you, but you might still get a better one. Keep us posted. Hope this is helpful.
This is dicey territory for me, since I happen to be a FL lawyer myself and our state bar is more rigid on ethics than a foot-thick block of billet aluminum. With the understanding that I'm not acting as your lawyer in this, rather, just a fellow BITOGer, I'd recommend a counter-offer, working toward either a flat out even swap or a payout in the lower half of the 0-2300 range.
I've owned two 1998 Buick Regal GSs (the neat, supercharged, snap-your-neck accel version...). The first went away after six months and 10k miles replaced with an identical new one (well, the colors were different, but same sticker price even). It certainly helped that I am a lawyer (no, it shouldn't be that way) and I was at the time employed by the golfing partner of the guy who owned the Buick dealership in town. With a bit of savvy negotiation, or perhaps your own lawyer's help, you should be able to do about as well. And don't forget to net out all the factors. You may pay some, but since you'd be getting a newer vehicle, when you drive away, you do so in something that's worth more, just by the book. You'll realize that advantage when it's time to sell the new truck.
And of course, dispute resolution is always driven by many factors well beyond what just the law would give you. Between one and two grand for a new truck vs. entrenching in a potentially months-long legal battle? If it were me, I'd probably make the deal (but of course, it's not me -- it's you and you get to decide). In short, I don't think that's a bad looking parachute they're offering you, but you might still get a better one. Keep us posted. Hope this is helpful.
I wouldn't even consider that "swap".
If they do not resolve the issue in a reasonable time frame or determine that it's "normal". I would extend the OCI to max allowed in manual and run the snot out of the truck until there's a real problem.
If they do not resolve the issue in a reasonable time frame or determine that it's "normal". I would extend the OCI to max allowed in manual and run the snot out of the truck until there's a real problem.
ekpolk, 97 GTP:
Thanks for the fast replies...both sides of the coin on your views...exactly what I'm looking for.
ekpolk, they will not move on the price...that's the "best offer"...so that's it...maybe my bargaining skills aren't that good
97 GTP:
I hear ya'...that's my one friends consensus....his term was "drove it like you stole it"
I'm still on the bubble with this though...I don't need the headaches, but I HATE giving them cash...just swap the d*** thing out...and at least I get a new, non-issue (I would hope) 2006 truck. If things were a little better money-wise, I would do it in a heartbeat, as this is wearing on me (and my wife).
I'm open for some more opinions / options...thanks folks!
Thanks for the fast replies...both sides of the coin on your views...exactly what I'm looking for.
ekpolk, they will not move on the price...that's the "best offer"...so that's it...maybe my bargaining skills aren't that good
97 GTP:
I hear ya'...that's my one friends consensus....his term was "drove it like you stole it"
I'm still on the bubble with this though...I don't need the headaches, but I HATE giving them cash...just swap the d*** thing out...and at least I get a new, non-issue (I would hope) 2006 truck. If things were a little better money-wise, I would do it in a heartbeat, as this is wearing on me (and my wife).
I'm open for some more opinions / options...thanks folks!
Vic you've recieved some outstanding advice from some truly knowledgeable people. Terry, ekpolk,GoldenRod to name a few.But in the end you're the only one that can decide what's right for you in this case. Whichever you choose you will always wonder if it was the right choice so take your time and weigh all the options.
PS. If it was me I'd hire ekpolk in a heartbeat.Good luck.
EDIT: hot thread generating many posts. This is a response to 97gtp. Thanks farrar, I can't wait to hang up the uniform and return to practice so I can get back into these sorts of frays once again...
Hmmmm, a minor payout and a brand-new truck vs. suffering through a painful and time-consuming process the best outcome of which is getting his truck back after it has undergone an engine transplant*??? I'd much prefer to be owning and driving a new vehicle as opposed to one that's been torn apart and re-assembled. If he can achieve a mutually acceptable "deal" then I'd say do the deal and get on with life.
* It has been several years since I dug into the FL Lemon Law, but another "alternative" might be a take back and purchase price refund, minus charges for use of the returned vehicle (which would be substantial). Might not be so good when you factor in the "minus" part. . .
Hmmmm, a minor payout and a brand-new truck vs. suffering through a painful and time-consuming process the best outcome of which is getting his truck back after it has undergone an engine transplant*??? I'd much prefer to be owning and driving a new vehicle as opposed to one that's been torn apart and re-assembled. If he can achieve a mutually acceptable "deal" then I'd say do the deal and get on with life.
* It has been several years since I dug into the FL Lemon Law, but another "alternative" might be a take back and purchase price refund, minus charges for use of the returned vehicle (which would be substantial). Might not be so good when you factor in the "minus" part. . .
Me too.
But it sounds better coming from you.
Losing 4x4 and leather, getting a new truck, with a higher trim level etc, and paying 2300 could be a great deal. What is the basic difference between a 4x4 and a 2x4 price wise??? What does Leather add??? What about the SE vs LE and the towing package. If the numbers of a new vs new truck make sense to you then you are paying 2300 to drive your old truck 9000 miles. at 40 cents a mile that is $3600 less fuel costs which at 2.25 a gal and 15 MPG is about $1300. Do the math. If it is equal truck for equal truck it is a great deal. You need to determine if it is equal dollar wise when you look at the lose 4x4, leather vs the gain of trim package, and towing , etc. I've driven a Nissan for 125000 miles with no bad UOA. That being said every company is capable of putting together a bad engine. You got unlucky and got the one. Chances of it happening again are slim.
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