10W-30 synthetic in place of SAE 30

[535678]

I have a lightly used Tecumseh HH60 from the 70's which calls for SAE30. Can I safely run 10W-30 synthetic in this girl? A few hours of use each year with outdoor temps in the 60-85°F range.

I would run straight SAE30 synthetic but it's 1) hard to find, and 2)extremely expensive at $12-15/qt.

Thoughts?

 

[johnachak]

Since mowers tend to shear the heck out of oil (I think the splash oiling adds to it) I use a mix of, (approximately) 16 oz of syn 10 w 30 to 4 oz of dino HD30.

Its easy to measure out the 16 oz because of the bottle markings. I then top it off with the HD30. It has been working fine for me but my engine is only 4.5 hp.

For an older engine I might try a 50/50 mix.

Just my opinion, good luck.

 

[moklock]

I have run PP and QSUD 10w30 in newer small engines for a few years now without issue.

After some reccomendation i've run two 90's vintage Tecumseh HH100's on a generator and wood chipper and a 5HP B&S on a pressure washer on Rotella T6 5w40 and they all seem to like that oil as well.

 

[BigCahuna]

You guys can't compare to the wife we saw on a show called "Cheapskates". She would cut material from sheets or curtains into squares, and place them in the bathroom to be used for toilet paper. Then after the squares were used, they placed them in a pail from which they were washed then reused. I don't know what is more embarrassing actually doing that, or going on TV and telling the world on TV that you do it?.,,

 

[mongo161]

That's a big NO NO boys. You know what they say about mixing oils! You'll get the OCD crowd upset if they find out your playing chemist...and mixing different add packs....even though it is a great idea....lol.

You must pick one oil and not mix any other oil with that specific oil....lol

 

[535678]

Could someone clarify...I thought dino was known for shearing, not synthetic? Does the engine type matter?

 

[dparm]

Redline's "race" SAE 30 is so good it's basically a 10w30, for example:


Each race oil product is a multi-grade, offering 2-4% more power than oil of a similar viscosity - 20WT is a 5W20, 30WT is a 10W30, 40WT is a 15W40, 50WT is a 15W50


So I'd say you're safe to run a high-quality synthetic 10w30 in that thing. Oils have come a long way since that mower's owner's manual was written.

 

[535678]

That brings up another question I have.

When the OPE engine manufacturers spec'ed SAE30 back in the 1960's and 1970's was the technology advanced enough to call for SAE30 back then, or did somebody on a whim decide SAE30 was best?

 

[Quest]

Oh, the joy of 60s and 70s where API was still around SA or SB grade; where VI would shear like crazy, and base oil was pretty much "solvent scrubbed" group-1 oil, which will break down with ease.

SAE 30 was just happens to be plentiful back in those days, so factory spec'ed them for their OPEs.

Fast fwd to what...almost 1/2 century, we now have Gp2+ (Gp3, 4, and 5) base oil, with better viscosity and more robust oil overall. So, why the heck you still wanna put SAE 30 in your OPE?

factory may be slow to follow suit but that doesn't necessary imply that they are always right. Afterall: flatheads such as B&S didn't move to synthetic multigrade until recently, and yet they still making engines out of the 1910s technology...go figure.

Q.

 

[535678]

So do you disregard SAE30 spec'ed in the 1960's and 1970's and replace with, say, 10W30?

What if a manufacturer spec'ed SAE30 in the year 2012, would you take that more seriously?

 

[fpracha]

Originally Posted By: 535678
I have a lightly used Tecumseh HH60 from the 70's which calls for SAE30. Can I safely run 10W-30 synthetic in this girl? A few hours of use each year with outdoor temps in the 60-85°F range.
Good idea and make sure you use a decent quality oil.
Originally Posted By: 535678
So do you disregard SAE30 spec'ed in the 1960's and 1970's and replace with, say, 10W30?
What if a manufacturer spec'ed SAE30 in the year 2012, would you take that more seriously?
Yes please go ahead and use the 10W-30 or even a 15W-40 without any doubt! These will provide better startup and equal-or-better protection when loaded.

 

[1999nick]

As far as factory recommendations go, don't forget that Briggs & Stratton's number 1 recommendation for several years has been synthetic 5W30 for all temperatures. They do recommend that 30weight be used only above 40 degrees.

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: 535678
So do you disregard SAE30 spec'ed in the 1960's and 1970's and replace with, say, 10W30?

What if a manufacturer spec'ed SAE30 in the year 2012, would you take that more seriously?


The short/quick answer is, YES! I'd drop the ball on SAE 30 and go with multiviscosity 10W30.

unlike automobile manufacturers with seriously large/dedicated engine R&D teams to develop various engine/valvegrain/lubrication specs. such as diesel oil spec. from Cummins (Cummins CES 2008) Volvo VDS-4, Mack EO-O Premium Plus, Detroit Diesel 93K218 and Caterpillar ECF-3 , etc.; or in Gasoline engine: Ford's WSS-M2C945-A, GM 6094M, etc.

Most of these small engine manufacturers rely on the use of automobile grade oil (and specs associated) for their single engine use (for how many of them would have their own dedicated teams of engineers on the subject of lubrication development?!?)

Since none of these OPE engines (very old technology like flatheads, etc., not highly stressed at all, they can go with virtually any oil suitable for use in automobile engines (gasoline/diesel).

The only catch I've seen/experienced so far is that if the engine has been in-use of old mono grade SAE30 or not been serviced/changed regularly or engine burns out starting from 0hrs onwards, using multiviscosity oil will lead to accelerated oil consumption issues.

Again, this only applies to the situation listed above. I have been dealing with B&S (also own Honda engine and some 2-cyls) flatheads for quite some time now and have been using from 5W30, 0W30(GC) to 10W40 diesel HDEO oils, and none of them consume any oil so far (incl. a 4.5hp B&S that has been w/ my family for over 16 yrs, doing mows every 2 weeks covering 7000sqft), and some 1965 B&S roto-tiller I use every spring.

So, in summary: SAE 30 on most OPE manufacturer manuals is just a bit "outdated". You can use multivis 10W30/10W40 or full-syn 5W30 without fear.

Q.

 

[odie]

I use Platinum 10w-30 ( SN/GF-5 ) for the Bolens riding mower with the 13.5 H.P. engine by B&S and no consumption . Use it in the generator as well .

 

[535678]

Thanks for the answers everyone...much appreciated.

The engine I was speaking of, a Tecumseh HH60 from the 70's has been used sparingly on a rototiller. I'm guessing 500-1000 hours total use with dino SAE30 the whole time. Synthetic was recommended because of the steep operating angle when tilling deep into the soil. If the oil level were to run low, the front end of the engine won't be lubricated properly. That's what the tiller experts tell me anyway.

This dilemma has me wondering how much oil consumption to expect running 10W-30. After say ten hours would this be discernable or are we talking 10% (or more) of the oil volume?

 

[535678]

One more question. The oil is long overdue for an oil change. When checking the dipstick it is progressively blacker further down the stick. So it appears sludge is a real possibility.

Do I dare run an ounce of Seafoam in the oil immediately before changing it?

 

[Quest]

Nahh.. IMHO no need to run any stoddard solvent (MMO) or seafoam...all you need to do is to run the engine really warm (so that the oil is hot) and then perform a couple of drain-n-fill to rid of the dirty stuff within.

These engines are splash-feed and comes with a crank scoop that will chrun the oil when it runs. So run the oil warm (oil thins out) and the churning will stir the stuff really good for draining. 2 drain-n-fill should do fine (I'd top it with either Chevron HDEO (Isosyn) 15W40 or PP 10W30 full-syn.....

Q.

 

[doitmyself]

The thing that is ironic regarding this thrashing of straight 30w oil for OPE is that the 2 largest manufacturers of commercial OPE engines in the U.S. (Kawasaki and Kohler) still recommend 30w and/or 10w30 as the preferred oils for their engines.

While they might not have dedicated lubrication engineers on their staff, its also hard to believe that they have their heads in the sand. They sell many thousands of engines annually. The pros over at lawnsite.com talk of using 30w/10w30 as much as using 5w40 or 15w40, so these oils are not as obsolete as lead to believe here.

535678, regarding shearing, air cooled engines shear oil more than liquid cooled. Whether its mechanical design or higher temperatures, I am not sure (probably both).

Straight weight oils, by design, shear LESS than multi viscosity oil. Comparing shearing of a quality dino HDEO 30w to a synthetic 10w30?....does anyone have data about this? However, it is this less shearing feature that some consider as a strength of straight over multi viscosity for air cooled engines.

My personal preference is to use HDEOs in air cooled OPE engines, with NO proof that automotive SN oils are not up to the task. Just my bias, supported by Kohler's marketing of HDEO OPE oils (and other reasons): http://www.kohlerengines.com/accessories/kohlerOil.htm

-Rotella has inexpensive HDEO oils in 30w and 10w30. The Kohler HDE0 oils above are overpriced at $5-$6/qt.
-Amsoil, Exmark, and others market synthetic dual 30w-10w30 oils for OPE for $7-$8/quart.

In the end it doesn't matter much. Its a personal choice based on which Kool Aid you drink.

Take care.

 

[535678]

How hot does oil run in air-cooled OPE engines? I was curious if in some engines, the oil never reaches 100°C and thus, the 10W-30 oil never reaches 30 weight?

I've seen people fire up their snowblowers, no warmup, and immediately plow light snow for maybe 3 minutes before shutting them down. These snowblowers are kept in unheated garages by the way. Would multigrade oil pretty much be the consistency of orange juice in these instances when the engine is being stressed so quickly?

By the way, thanks guys for sharing your knowledge. I learn something new everyday.

 

[johnachak]

Originally Posted By: 535678
How hot does oil run in air-cooled OPE engines? I was curious if in some engines, the oil never reaches 100°C and thus, the 10W-30 oil never reaches 30 weight?

I've seen people fire up their snowblowers, no warmup, and immediately plow light snow for maybe 3 minutes before shutting them down. These snowblowers are kept in unheated garages by the way. Would multigrade oil pretty much be the consistency of orange juice in these instances when the engine is being stressed so quickly?

By the way, thanks guys for sharing your knowledge. I learn something new everyday.


My 4 stroke snow blower specs Full Synthetic, 5 w 30. it seems very pourable even when cold.