Oil Recommendation for Best Cold-Start Protection

[Jason64]

Hello everyone, I'm new here. This looks like one of the best automotive forums on the 'net.

What oil would you suggest to optimize cold-start protection? The poor engine has many short trips where it barely or does not reach normal operating temperature (according to the temperature meter on the dash). It also has longer trips (30 minutes or more) a couple times a week, and 2-4 700km/435 mile trips per year.

Mazda Protege 2001 LX
2.0L, 4 Cylinder, 16-Valve
180,000 km/112,000 miles
Automatic Transmission
Typical Winter Temperature of -5C/23F
Always Parked Outside
Fuel: Regular 87-Octane as per owner's manual

The (10-year old) owner's manual says "The oil quality designation SG, SH, SJ or ILSAC must be on the label." The manual recommends 5W-30 for cold weather; 10W-30 for warm weather.

The manual suggest an oil change interval of 8000km/5000 miles, or 4 months, whichever comes first.

The vehicle seeps or burns about 0.5-1.0L of oil between changes; I always keep it topped up.

For it's entire life, the vehicle has run 10W30 dino, changed roughly every 5000 miles.

Again, I'd like to hear your thoughts on what oil for frequent cold starts and short trips in the winter. I'm willing to switch to syn if I can extend the OCI to 10,000km/6200miles or more.

Thanks,

Jason

 

[volk06]

For the most cold start protection M1AFE 0w-30 would be your best bet but 23f is not that cold, any 5w30 will work as well. Any full syn can do 6200 miles pretty easily now days.

 

[Jason64]

Thanks! Yeah 23F is not that bad. It can get as cold as 0F here, but not often.

I guess what I'm really asking is best oil for protecting engine on short trips (i.e. 1-10 miles; 3-10 minutes)

 

[Bill in Utah]

Any 5w-30 will be just fine (and as you have PROVEN 10w-30 will not kill the engine (another reason for this 0w-x discussion just amazes me

))

I'd say pick the color of bottle that you like. They all are going to do the same as far as protection just as any other oil out there.

I'd NOT do syn as you NEED to change the oil more frequent with the short trips.

I would NOT go to a 6,200 mile OCI.

Take care, Bill

 

[CATERHAM]

First Welcome to BITOG!

M1 0W-30 is not available in Canada.

Any 5W-30 synthetic oil you can get on sale will serve you well in your climate for year round use.
Forget about the largely obsolete 10W-30 grade even for summer use.

 

[rjacket]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah

Any 5w-30 will be just fine (and as you have PROVEN 10w-30 will not kill the engine (another reason for this 0w-x discussion just amazes me

))

I'd say pick the color of bottle that you like. They all are going to do the same as far as protection just as any other oil out there.

I'd NOT do syn as you NEED to change the oil more frequent with the short trips.

I would NOT go to a 6,200 mile OCI.

Take care, Bill



Bill, after how many months would you recommend he change the oil? Would not those 2 x a week 30 minute trips help keep the oil clean?

 

[JC1]

Pick a 5w-30 full synthetic for your car. Since you're in Newfoundland, it's gonna be cold in the winter and the fully synthetic will make cold starts a breeze.

I'm in the Toronto area and in Winter you can hear the engine fire up right away during temps below 0C.

Motomaster full synthetic is a good deal when it goes on Sale at Canadian Tire (5 Litres for $25 berfore taxes).

Regards, JC.

 

[OldCowboy]

If it were me, I'd keep the OCIs short and use conventional 5W-30. There are a couple of UOAs here that show very robust oil was shot after as little as 3000 miles with 1-3 mile drives to work.

While a longer trip a couple of times a week may help with sludge, the reduction in TBN caused by acid formation/fuel contamination is not eliminated by this.

Oh, and BTW, for any of you that think 23F is not cold, I'd suggest you put a bottle of your favorite oil in the fridge overnight and see how it pours. While you certainly have oil pressure at this temp, you don't have very much flow.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
If it were me, I'd keep the OCIs short and use conventional 5W-30. There are a couple of UOAs here that show very robust oil was shot after as little as 3000 miles with 1-3 mile drives to work.

While a longer trip a couple of times a week may help with sludge, the reduction in TBN caused by acid formation/fuel contamination is not eliminated by this.

Oh, and BTW, for any of you that think 23F is not cold, I'd suggest you put a bottle of your favorite oil in the fridge overnight and see how it pours. While you certainly have oil pressure at this temp, you don't have very much flow.



I've done this and my qsud and kendall still pours just fine. Not much difference than normal temp at 70. However at -20 in my freezer this story changes and the oil is quite a bit thicker and reduced flow.

 

[Xstang]

Originally Posted By: volk06
For the most cold start protection M1AFE 0w-30 would be your best bet but 23f is not that cold, any 5w30 will work as well. Any full syn can do 6200 miles pretty easily now days.


While M1 0w-30 is not available up north, another good pick is Petro Canada 0w-30.

 

[JavierG]

Jason, welcome to BITOG!! i agree with the others in keeping with a good quality 5W-30 oil. What brands are available in your area?

 

[Patman]

Because of the short trips, I would not recommend a 30 weight anything, as the oil will always end up being way too thick for the engine. A 5w20 or 0w20 is a much better choice for short trippers that rarely get up to full oil temperature.

 

[CATERHAM]

Patman that's a good point although he does take the car on a 30 minute run twice per week which should get the oil up to temp' if not the winter in the summer.
Another question, since Mazda spec's 0W-20 for a number of there cars today is whether that grade has been back spec'd for the OP's 2L engine? If it has then absolutely run a 0W-20 year round.

 

[cp3]

Originally Posted By: Xstang

While M1 0w-30 is not available up north, another good pick is Petro Canada 0w-30.

Welcome aboard!

 

[sopususer]

I'd like to see the TDS on Pennzoil Ultra's 0W-20 & 0W-40 (not easily found anyway) but the new SN Ultra shows a -51C and -60F pour point on 5W-20, 5W-30, & 10W-30...wonder how much better 0W could be?

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140006587314_201112051450.pdf

 

[webfors]

What Bill said!! You can get 5L jugs of brand name dino on sale for $12. Change it every 8 - 10k KM.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: rjacket

Bill, after how many months would you recommend he change the oil? Would not those 2 x a week 30 minute trips help keep the oil clean?


Without a UOA its hard to tell what would be smart to do in HIS vehicle.

The longer drives does NOT keep the oil clean. NOT AT ALL. It burns off some moisture (good) and *if* he has any fuel (also good) but does nothing for the byproducts of combustion that happen EVERY time the engine is started.

If it was me I'd prob look at 5000 miles / 6 months (whichever happens first) and a UOA just to see whats up. Then adjust from there. I've seen short trippers just get nailed because of not frequent enough OCIs. And you better hope that the PCV system is working 100%!

I think 5w-30 would be better than 10w-30 in his engine / conditions.

Take care, bill

 

[rjacket]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: rjacket

Bill, after how many months would you recommend he change the oil? Would not those 2 x a week 30 minute trips help keep the oil clean?


Without a UOA its hard to tell what would be smart to do in HIS vehicle.

The longer drives does NOT keep the oil clean. NOT AT ALL. It burns off some moisture (good) and *if* he has any fuel (also good) but does nothing for the byproducts of combustion that happen EVERY time the engine is started.

If it was me I'd prob look at 5000 miles / 6 months (whichever happens first) and a UOA just to see whats up. Then adjust from there. I've seen short trippers just get nailed because of not frequent enough OCIs. And you better hope that the PCV system is working 100%!

I think 5w-30 would be better than 10w-30 in his engine / conditions.

Take care, bill


Thanks Bill

"Clean" was a bad choice of words.

Understood on the burning off of moisture and fuel, but would you say that the by products of combustion are worse for short trips then long trips? Maybe take a practical example in two identical engines:

1) 5000 miles in 6 months done through 2 x 20 highway mile trips a day
2) 2500 miles in 6 months done through 4 x 2 mile trips per day plus 2 x 40 highway mile trip each week

What condition would the oil be in scenario 1) vs 2)

 

[Jason64]

Appreciate the advice and warm welcome. Lot's of Canadians here.

Here's what I take away from this thread:

-stop using 10w30 entirely
-use 5w30 year-round
-technically 0w30 is best for cold starts, but not necessary for this engine
-synthetic not necessary; but not a bad deal when on sale
-do not extend OCI... keep to a maximum of 5000 miles.
-see if anywhere in St. John's can do UOA

I couldn't find any information on whether Mazda back-spec'd this engine to 0w30.

I plan to follow all this advice. I'm just left with a couple questions,

Any point in using high-mileage? I tried Valvoline 10w30 High Mileage before and the oil level went down just as fast as regular oil.

The scheduled maintenance says to change oil every 4 months. Should I bother to do this if I'm not at 5000 miles?


Jason

 

[weebl]

Hi Jason, I had almost the same car as you, a 2002 Protege ES with the 2.0L FS-DE and automatic. It spent most of its time with me in Vancouver, however, on 10W-30 dino. It now lives here, but with my wife's grandparents. I don't know what they use in it, but it's still running strong.

Here is my take on your situation. Original spec was either 5W-30 or 10W-30. At full operating temperature, the 5W-30 and 10W-30 (or anythingW-30 for that matter) "looks and feels" the same to the engine. The difference is that when the oil is cold, a lower number before the W flows better than a higher number.

You experience cold, but usually not extreme cold temperatures. Your vehicle also doesn't often have the chance to warm up fully in the winter. Moisture and/or fuel dilution could be issues.

If it were me, I would look for a synthetic 5W-30, or if easily available at the same price, a 0W-30. The synthetic will have better cold flow properties than conventional, and sticking to a 0W-30 or 5W-30 over a 10W-30 also gives better cold flow properties. Synthetic oil will also help with fuel dilution or moisture issues, as these oils are more robust than conventional. As for extending the OCI, unless you can get a UOA, I would stay with the 8,000km OCI, as I suspect that by the end of the OCI, you could see moisture or fuel in the oil. As far as moving to a xW-20 is concerned, I would look for documentation from Mazda that this is acceptable for the engine. For the generally short trips, if this is an acceptable oil, it may help.

BTW, 5W-30 synthetic is serving me quite well, and I live in Edmonton where -30C is common in the winter, and -40C is usually reached a couple of times each winter, so probably far more extreme than you'd normally see (though thankfully today is warm at -9C). 0W-30 can't readily be had at a reasonable price walking into a Canadian Tire or Walmart, which is the primary reason I haven't moved to it yet. BTW, pour points of most synthtetic 5W-30s range from -39C to -45C.