Car Cranks, Won't Start

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So on my girlfriend's 2001 V6 Mustang, she's been having starting issues.

It started a few weeks ago, the car will crank fine but won't start. After trying 3-4 times, I tried her spare key and it worked. Thought it was just the key.

A few days ago, she said it wouldn't start at work. Same thing: cranks but won't start. She finally got it to start after a few tries. I had her take my car, and I tried her car next morning and it started right up. A few hours later, we tried to move it and it cranked but wouldn't start.

So:

- Battery is less than a year old, 12.5V
- Alternator puts out 14.2V
- Car seems to start fine in the morning/first start, but won't afterwards/2nd start.
- I'm pretty sure I can hear the fuel pump when turning the key to "ON".
- Distributor-less system

What should I be looking for?
 
I would spray in a little starter fluid the next time it does not start. That will give you a clue as to spark or fuel.

Is it spinning over (based upon sound) at the right speed to start? Or really laboring?

Spark plug condition? Pull a plug or two and have a look?

Bad fuel?

Any CEL?
 
No CEL, I plugged in my scanner anyways, nothing.

Cranking fine and strong, sounds normal.

I think I can eliminate bad fuel as it's been about 2-3 tanks since the last starting issue.

Last time I checked the plugs, they looked normal. The car runs perfectly fine, it's just having starting issues right now.

I'm hoping the fact that it starts fine the first time but has a hard time hours after can help narrow it down.
 
Well, just tried to start it after letting it sit overnight, first attempt sounded like it almost turned over. 2nd and 3rd attempt it just cranks.

I had my scanner hooked up, before the first attempt, scanner showed fuel pressure at 42 and 0 after trying to start it. Fuel System 1 is "OPEN", don't know if that is normal or if that data helps.

I should add: 130,000 miles, all original parts (fuel pump, alternator/starter).
 
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Originally Posted By: Quest
remember the fundamentals:

fuel, air and spark.

Q.


You are in fact correct, but have been through this on a few cars and found that air is largely redundant (if it wont start with the intake manifold off, its likely something else and not at lack for "air.")

So, again, while correct, its techically "fuel, (air,) spark, and compression."

Blowed head gasket = less compression = can make car hard to start, sometimes takes ~10 minutes for compression to build.

Crank-no-start condition could be many things, but prime suspect is always fuel (starter fluid in intake manifold is good indicator, if it starts it should run for a couple seconds. Firsthand experience bore this out to diagnose Fuel Pump, next step is to take line off at back of engine to see if fuel comes up) and second suspect is spark/crank.
 
Two things this sounds like, and what it "could be" since i have had a car that behaved similar:

Your fuel pump could be dying a slow death, and not putting out enough pressure to start the car reliably, every time. Pressure has to "build".

Very unlikely you have a head gasket (compression) issue. You would know if you did.

This would explain intermittent starts, as well as taking some time to start, then wanting to start then not starting. If it starts some minutes after it "anted to start" then "just cranks," it could be a dying but not yet deal fuel pump. They can last for some time in a marginal state. Had it happen on two vehicles, exactly that.

Quote:

I'm hoping the fact that it starts fine the first time but has a hard time hours after can help narrow it down.


It might not be, but im thinking more and ore the fuel pump is in the way out (and is good enough to give good pressure readings "sometimes." They do that. It fools the diagnostic test...) Mine made a "hiccup" on the highway and i thought the car was going to stall, it held up for a month or so. Changed fuel pump? .. ran and started as new.
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Could be an anti theft issue. IDK if the key is related at all like it is on some GMs. You'd have a blinky light on the dash most likely.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Could be an anti theft issue. IDK if the key is related at all like it is on some GMs. You'd have a blinky light on the dash most likely.


I was thinking the same thing.

Does the spare key always work?
 
usually with the ford anti-theft it doesnt crank at all? at least the older ford system.
and you get a solid light.. at least thats what it did with my ranger with the PATS system.

+3600 marginal fuel pump.


doubt its a head gasket.. and I'm not sure how a head gasket could make it take 10min to get compression? you have a fresh compression cycle 5? times a second?

I would verify spark during the no start condition then go to the fuel system.
 
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Originally Posted By: 45ACP
Your fuel pump could be dying a slow death, and not putting out enough pressure to start the car reliably, every time. Pressure has to "build".


Sounds like it to me.
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
doubt its a head gasket.. and I'm not sure how a head gasket could make it take 10min to get compression? you have a fresh compression cycle 5? times a second?



Offtopic, but.. I doubt it is a HG issue as well. What i was referring to that when i had a car with a slowly failing head gasket, something with either the loss of compression in one/more cylinders or the exhaust gas gettin where it wasnt made the car crank slowly and not start, then require waiting for it to build enough compression to fire and run. (Similar to starting a car with 20W-50 when its freezing out, slow engine revolution and wont fire. Something was impeding it. Then it turns faster some minutes later.) Eventually the engine did fail by dropping a valve. Before that i had absolute milkshake oil twice, and was tough to start the car and smoke would come out the tailpipe. It died a slow death and almost almost left me on the side of the highway, and the cars last ride was a 0 to ~60MPH acceleratio full of sputtering that took a good two minutes, black/grey smoke behind me the whole time. It dropped its valve roughly 6 starts later, 12 hours later that night... on the other side of the same highway. So, it can impact engine starting. HG was supect, but the cylinder had a valve shaped hole in it upon disassembly.

If the head gasket were to have a slow leak that was getting bigger but not large enough to be full-on obvious and masked by cold weather i.e. smoke signale etc etc and was in fact a small leak, it could be beginning to affect compression enough to inhibit starting due to what was leaked where. I dont think that is happening here, but was a thought. Bubbling coolant sometimes wont bubble enough to be seen and the antifreeze smell of the exhaust and plume can be attributed to cold weather. Just my
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Hey, OP.. is that distributor cap on tight? That could be your issue right there as well! Spark-related. Could be as simple as tightening two screws, if you can move the cap with your hand that could be your issue right there. Had that happen too
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My Astro had a fuel pump go out ("common issue" - "they all do that") - it needed 60+ PSI for the fuel injection is what my mechanic told me. Hope your pump is not in the tank, $$$$ to fix. I just looked it up - $450 back in '06. Van had 82k on it at the time....
 
How about a crank position sensor?

Will the car start while spraying starting fluid/gas into the intake/throttle???

I had a 1999 Stratus 2.4L that had a known issue with the starter. It would cause a blown IGN/FUEL/INJECTOR(related anyway) fuse under the hood to blow as the bad spot/bendix on the starter were both contributing factors, thus creating a hang up or seize from time to time, especially with damp or cold weather.

I sold the car in family, about 1 week later the car died while driving to the new owner. I checked the fuses, the car was checked over by a shop and a relay was replaced, but eventually things got worse. Car shutting off while driving, apparently? Before consulting me, there was an element of distrust/trying to undo the car purchase which I didn't let fly with the way things were mishandled. So, replacement fuel pump installed, car wouldn't start until ever so much gas was poured into the gas tank(strange). So, as soon as the level got low enough or within a week the car would no longer start at all.

It would crank all day and even fire up for a split second if you poured gas into the TB, but die immediately. So the new starter was okay and I had also replaced the alternator, both of these things I paid out of pocket and did the labor myself at the time of sale of the vehicle for this family member. The only known issues that needed to be handled and I agreed verbally to do those things.

What wound up happening was the Crank Position Sensor wires from the harness to the ECU had developed burn spots(the strap keeping them in place came loose and the wires themselves were damaged by the exhaust + oil leaks didnt help), so they spliced the bad wires with correct gauge(18 iirc) and the car starts/no more problems.
 
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This is an oil based website, and the following is a hydrocarbon molecule based guess about what could be going on:

Fuel is a mix of hydrocarbons. And like all hydrocarbons the viscosity varies with temperature. Most mornings the fuel is colder than later in most days, and therefore in most mornings the viscosity is thicker and a fuel pump that is marginal may still be able to build proper pressure. Remember we are talking about fine clearances that are now also fine tuned from thousands of hours of running at hundreds of revolutions per minute. Later in the day, when the fuel is thinner because the temperature has increased, there could be less of an ability for a marginal fuel pump to build proper pressure.

If the vehicle has 130K miles, and averages 30 MPH, and (just a guess the fuel pump runs at 200 RPMs on average) than that pump has turned 130000 X2 (it takes two minutes to go one mile at 30 MPH) X 200 RPMs.

130000 X 2 X 200 = 52,000,000 revolutions (and this is just a guess) but you can see that in 130,000 miles the pump has turned enough revolutions that it can now be finely worn in to have the kind of tight tolerances that a variance in viscosity caused by change in the temperature of the fuel, could be a problem.

So is the fuel pressure related to the temperature of the fuel? Also take into consideration that the fuel will be warmed up some from running the vehicle.
 
Dug through my paperwork file for her car, fuel filter was replaced a few years back, about 40k miles ago. Funny thing is that I just picked one up a few days ago and it's in her trunk.

I think I can rule out the theft feature as both keys are not working (regular & spare). I know with my Camaro, when the VATs didn't like the pellet in my key, it wouldn't even crank so I think that rules out the keys.

And no distributor, distributor-less system.

Going to have to just have it towed to a local shop as it's parked in the outdoor parking lot and it's raining pretty hard. I'll find out tomorrow and let you guys know.
 
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