Mobil 1 5W20, 8.7kmi, 2011 Honda Pilot AWD 15%MM
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Is this a VCM V6? Does it spec 5W-20 or 0W-20?
Originally Posted By: rjacket
What's 15% MM?
15% remaining on the Maintenance Minder, Honda's version of the OLM.
What's 15% MM?
15% remaining on the Maintenance Minder, Honda's version of the OLM.
Just a few questions to try to better understand what is going on here.
1. How long did you keep the initial factory fill in?
2. Did you start with Mobil 1 right after the first oil change?
3. What were the previous oil change intervals?
Wear metals seem much higher than normally seen on a Honda.
1. How long did you keep the initial factory fill in?
2. Did you start with Mobil 1 right after the first oil change?
3. What were the previous oil change intervals?
Wear metals seem much higher than normally seen on a Honda.
Some Honda engines seem to produce high fuel dilution. I have never had a flash point over 360 in the Honda 2.4.
Nothing alarming here at all. 37 ppm of Fe is not bad. Could be better, but I think fuel& insolubles are playing a role with that. Notice how low flash point is in both UOA's?
Nothing alarming here at all. 37 ppm of Fe is not bad. Could be better, but I think fuel& insolubles are playing a role with that. Notice how low flash point is in both UOA's?
Ouch, not great results at all!
Relatively large amount of fuel and dirt (insols.) in the oil, which must be what is accelerating wear.
If it were me, I'd forget what the lab and the MM says, I'd go with an inexpensive 5W-20, and run it 3-5k.
I'd do that 1-2 times, and then re-sample to see how the engine is doing.
Relatively large amount of fuel and dirt (insols.) in the oil, which must be what is accelerating wear.
If it were me, I'd forget what the lab and the MM says, I'd go with an inexpensive 5W-20, and run it 3-5k.
I'd do that 1-2 times, and then re-sample to see how the engine is doing.
Lots of short trips in this? You're also driving 18K miles in 8 months? OUCH!
Looks like it's not warming up fully (fuel dilution) and that might be part of the problem...were it mine, I would change it more often...you're using good oil...how about every 7500 miles?
Looks like it's not warming up fully (fuel dilution) and that might be part of the problem...were it mine, I would change it more often...you're using good oil...how about every 7500 miles?
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I'm telling the world these engines, even the non-VCM V6's in the Pilot and Odyssey, are really hard on the oil. Pretty dirty. Fe seems a tad high, but nothing here really surprises me.
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Is this a VCM V6? Does it spec 5W-20 or 0W-20?
It is the dreaded VCM. The '11 Pilot specifies 5W20, which is surprising since Honda is migrating towards 0W20 in all their vehicles.
Originally Posted By: MajorCavalry
Just a few questions to try to better understand what is going on here.
1. How long did you keep the initial factory fill in?
2. Did you start with Mobil 1 right after the first oil change?
3. What were the previous oil change intervals?
Wear metals seem much higher than normally seen on a Honda.
1. Factory fill was left in for 8200 miles, until the MM (or OLM) read 15%. This is the first time I've ever done this, but to my credit, is recommended by Honda.
2. No, I ran Castrol Syntec 5W20 for the first UOA (first oil change after factory drain).
3. My OCI's are right around 8-9k each time. Because this is my wife's car, I typically change it when the MM is indicating either 15% (preferred) or 10%.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Lots of short trips in this? You're also driving 18K miles in 8 months? OUCH!
Looks like it's not warming up fully (fuel dilution) and that might be part of the problem...were it mine, I would change it more often...you're using good oil...how about every 7500 miles?
This, unfortunately, is not the case (in regards to short trips). The vehicle is driven daily by my wife to work, 26 miles one way. This does not include her additional real estate mileage, but 98% of the time includes a 20+ minute drive to a location, which should be plenty of time for the thing to warm up.
But yes, we drive like crazy. Until I got my Fit, we use to take her Pilot everywhere, but the real estate mileage adds up quickly. We've owned it since October 2010. I drive 135 miles a day for work, so within the next 3 months or so, my Fit should exceed her mileage!
Is this a VCM V6? Does it spec 5W-20 or 0W-20?
It is the dreaded VCM. The '11 Pilot specifies 5W20, which is surprising since Honda is migrating towards 0W20 in all their vehicles.
Originally Posted By: MajorCavalry
Just a few questions to try to better understand what is going on here.
1. How long did you keep the initial factory fill in?
2. Did you start with Mobil 1 right after the first oil change?
3. What were the previous oil change intervals?
Wear metals seem much higher than normally seen on a Honda.
1. Factory fill was left in for 8200 miles, until the MM (or OLM) read 15%. This is the first time I've ever done this, but to my credit, is recommended by Honda.
2. No, I ran Castrol Syntec 5W20 for the first UOA (first oil change after factory drain).
3. My OCI's are right around 8-9k each time. Because this is my wife's car, I typically change it when the MM is indicating either 15% (preferred) or 10%.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Lots of short trips in this? You're also driving 18K miles in 8 months? OUCH!
Looks like it's not warming up fully (fuel dilution) and that might be part of the problem...were it mine, I would change it more often...you're using good oil...how about every 7500 miles?
This, unfortunately, is not the case (in regards to short trips). The vehicle is driven daily by my wife to work, 26 miles one way. This does not include her additional real estate mileage, but 98% of the time includes a 20+ minute drive to a location, which should be plenty of time for the thing to warm up.
But yes, we drive like crazy. Until I got my Fit, we use to take her Pilot everywhere, but the real estate mileage adds up quickly. We've owned it since October 2010. I drive 135 miles a day for work, so within the next 3 months or so, my Fit should exceed her mileage!
Originally Posted By: Pablo
I'm telling the world these engines, even the non-VCM V6's in the Pilot and Odyssey, are really hard on the oil. Pretty dirty. Fe seems a tad high, but nothing here really surprises me.
I will agree. My 09 Accord V6 6M/T with the J35Z3 was bad, too:
I'm telling the world these engines, even the non-VCM V6's in the Pilot and Odyssey, are really hard on the oil. Pretty dirty. Fe seems a tad high, but nothing here really surprises me.
I will agree. My 09 Accord V6 6M/T with the J35Z3 was bad, too:
These engines should never go beyond 5K on an OCI with syn oil(this may be long)... I used syn oil(Mobil 1, Amsoil, Valvoline, etc) and did 5K OCI's since new and my 2003 Acura MDX V6 engine developed a knock at 90K miles. Never looked in the oil fill hole until the knock started(was filthy). I always assumed that I was doing overkill OCI's by using syn oil and short OCI's.
The engine was loaded with varnish and just sounded like [censored] when I traded at 135K miles. No doubt that the fuel dilution is a major reason for this problem and also poor engine design.
Oh year, the trannys also are horrible, at least the pre 05's models....
The engine was loaded with varnish and just sounded like [censored] when I traded at 135K miles. No doubt that the fuel dilution is a major reason for this problem and also poor engine design.
Oh year, the trannys also are horrible, at least the pre 05's models....
Shorten the OCI's on this vehicle. As said above this engine is hard on oil. Also, Artem mentioned a 5w30, I think that is good advice as well.
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Shorten the OCI's on this vehicle. As said above this engine is hard on oil. Also, Artem mentioned a 5w30, I think that is good advice as well.
+1. FP is terrible... too much fuel, shearing, and increased wear as a result. I wouldn't be happy.
Maybe the MM is not to be 'minded' on this engine.
Shorten the OCI's on this vehicle. As said above this engine is hard on oil. Also, Artem mentioned a 5w30, I think that is good advice as well.
+1. FP is terrible... too much fuel, shearing, and increased wear as a result. I wouldn't be happy.
Maybe the MM is not to be 'minded' on this engine.
Originally Posted By: webfors
Maybe the MM is not to be 'minded' on this engine.
I've wondered about Honda's MM system ever since I bought my first Honda in 2008. The K and R series 4 cylinders seem to do okay following it, but the J series 6-cylinders do not.
Maybe the MM is not to be 'minded' on this engine.
I've wondered about Honda's MM system ever since I bought my first Honda in 2008. The K and R series 4 cylinders seem to do okay following it, but the J series 6-cylinders do not.
Ive run 7500 OCIs with Pennz Platinum in my 03 Odyssey since 68k miles on the clock. I run a bottle of Techron before every OCI as well. It mostly sees short trips. Every OCI the oil looks a nice amber color and the every thing looks brand new through the fill hole. Engine runs quiet as can be. I just filled it with 0W20 Platinum and it is getting noticably better gas mileage. (unless we are already seeing unblended ethanol fuel at the pumps) We have had our Pilot for 7 months now and the odometer still only reads 2500 miles. This truck sees even shorter trips. I plan to run it to 0% OLM reading and then run Redline 0W20 after that folowing the OLM with a Techron bottle added at every OCI. I think it all depends on the oil used in the V6 Hondas. They dont seem to take well to oils that use Calcium and Sodium as their main additives. Thats why I have always used a high Boron or High Moly oil in all my Hondas I have ever owned and have never ever had a motor related problem. (fingers crossed, knock on wood)
Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
Ive run 7500 OCIs with Pennz Platinum in my 03 Odyssey since 68k miles on the clock. I run a bottle of Techron before every OCI as well. It mostly sees short trips. Every OCI the oil looks a nice amber color and the every thing looks brand new through the fill hole. Engine runs quiet as can be. I just filled it with 0W20 Platinum and it is getting noticably better gas mileage. (unless we are already seeing unblended ethanol fuel at the pumps) We have had our Pilot for 7 months now and the odometer still only reads 2500 miles. This truck sees even shorter trips. I plan to run it to 0% OLM reading and then run Redline 0W20 after that folowing the OLM with a Techron bottle added at every OCI. I think it all depends on the oil used in the V6 Hondas. They dont seem to take well to oils that use Calcium and Sodium as their main additives. Thats why I have always used a high Boron or High Moly oil in all my Hondas I have ever owned and have never ever had a motor related problem. (fingers crossed, knock on wood)
You have been very lucky. LOL... I think the Techron may be what helps keep your car clean of built up carbon. That is something I never used when I had our MDX... I used a PEA cleaner in a bunch of other cars but not the Acura. Oh well, I learned. Now I use Redline and/or BG44K before every OCI in every newer vehicle I own...
Ive run 7500 OCIs with Pennz Platinum in my 03 Odyssey since 68k miles on the clock. I run a bottle of Techron before every OCI as well. It mostly sees short trips. Every OCI the oil looks a nice amber color and the every thing looks brand new through the fill hole. Engine runs quiet as can be. I just filled it with 0W20 Platinum and it is getting noticably better gas mileage. (unless we are already seeing unblended ethanol fuel at the pumps) We have had our Pilot for 7 months now and the odometer still only reads 2500 miles. This truck sees even shorter trips. I plan to run it to 0% OLM reading and then run Redline 0W20 after that folowing the OLM with a Techron bottle added at every OCI. I think it all depends on the oil used in the V6 Hondas. They dont seem to take well to oils that use Calcium and Sodium as their main additives. Thats why I have always used a high Boron or High Moly oil in all my Hondas I have ever owned and have never ever had a motor related problem. (fingers crossed, knock on wood)
You have been very lucky. LOL... I think the Techron may be what helps keep your car clean of built up carbon. That is something I never used when I had our MDX... I used a PEA cleaner in a bunch of other cars but not the Acura. Oh well, I learned. Now I use Redline and/or BG44K before every OCI in every newer vehicle I own...
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dnewton3
Staff member
If the OP is going to look towards 5k mile OCIs or less, I'd have to suggest trying a good dino oil. There is no sense in spending $$$ on something you're going to dump often.
I'd run a couple of short OCIs (2.5k miles each) with a quality dino oil to "flush" and normalize, then I'd try a 5k mile OCI with a UOA (all with same brand/grade of oil). You've got nothing to lose at this point.
Also, and maybe it's just a typo, but anyone care to tell me how the Si can have a unit average HIGHER than the highest number in only two readings? Last time I checked, the sum of 14+20=34. To "unit average" divide by 2 in this case; 34/2=17. How did they get "24"?
I have no direct experience with this engine family, but it sure seems overtly poor in wear to me. At 35k miles, can this be fairly called break in wear? I understand that the claim is that these engines are hard on oil, but can someone show me (with objective evidence) where the oil failed? Vis is good, add pack elements are decent. The normal contributers I'd look toward for poor performance all seem to be in line. So, where's the root cause? I see that magnesium is higher than the universal averages, but except for the wear metals everything else seems pretty darn "normal" and close to universal averages. Do these just wear in really slow? Fuel is above normal, but not silly high; how is this so with the good heat soaking from 25 mile trips being the majority of driving?
I'd run a couple of short OCIs (2.5k miles each) with a quality dino oil to "flush" and normalize, then I'd try a 5k mile OCI with a UOA (all with same brand/grade of oil). You've got nothing to lose at this point.
Also, and maybe it's just a typo, but anyone care to tell me how the Si can have a unit average HIGHER than the highest number in only two readings? Last time I checked, the sum of 14+20=34. To "unit average" divide by 2 in this case; 34/2=17. How did they get "24"?
I have no direct experience with this engine family, but it sure seems overtly poor in wear to me. At 35k miles, can this be fairly called break in wear? I understand that the claim is that these engines are hard on oil, but can someone show me (with objective evidence) where the oil failed? Vis is good, add pack elements are decent. The normal contributers I'd look toward for poor performance all seem to be in line. So, where's the root cause? I see that magnesium is higher than the universal averages, but except for the wear metals everything else seems pretty darn "normal" and close to universal averages. Do these just wear in really slow? Fuel is above normal, but not silly high; how is this so with the good heat soaking from 25 mile trips being the majority of driving?
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