Just wondering if Honda Type 2 Antifreeze can be safely used in a GM vehicle calling for Dexcool...
Honda Type 2 Antifreeze in a GM vehicle?
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Originally Posted By: JRed
I wouldn't. Dexcool is easy to find.
This.
I wouldn't. Dexcool is easy to find.
This.
if you are able to remove 1005 of the old dex cool, then i don't see what it would hurt, but like said before dex cool is very easy to come by and honda type 2 isn't, when you are on a road trip and need to top off in B.F.E. you will be out of luck.
Originally Posted By: mopar_monkey
if you are able to remove 1005 of the old dex cool, then i don't see what it would hurt, but like said before dex cool is very easy to come by and honda type 2 isn't, when you are on a road trip and need to top off in B.F.E. you will be out of luck.
I found a local seller that is selling the Honda stuff for $5 a gallon and am wondering if I can take advantage of that.
I guess a complete flush should be able to remove close to 100% of the old dex cool stuff.
I'm no chemist but by looking at the MSDS of the Honda stuff, I think the only difference is that the Honda stuff does NOT contain 2-EHA while Dexcool does.
This is the Honda's MSDS I found: Honda Type 2 Antifreeze MSDS
if you are able to remove 1005 of the old dex cool, then i don't see what it would hurt, but like said before dex cool is very easy to come by and honda type 2 isn't, when you are on a road trip and need to top off in B.F.E. you will be out of luck.
I found a local seller that is selling the Honda stuff for $5 a gallon and am wondering if I can take advantage of that.
I guess a complete flush should be able to remove close to 100% of the old dex cool stuff.
I'm no chemist but by looking at the MSDS of the Honda stuff, I think the only difference is that the Honda stuff does NOT contain 2-EHA while Dexcool does.
This is the Honda's MSDS I found: Honda Type 2 Antifreeze MSDS
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If you can get the all the Dex out should be ok. That said, Type2 is a premix so getting a 50% system concentration isn't the easiest thing to achieve without some waste or finding/using block drains.
But $5 a gallon Type2, sounds hot. Stuff generally runs $18-20/gal. minimum at Honda dealer.
But $5 a gallon Type2, sounds hot. Stuff generally runs $18-20/gal. minimum at Honda dealer.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
If you can get the all the Dex out should be ok. That said, Type2 is a premix so getting a 50% system concentration isn't the easiest thing to achieve without some waste or finding/using block drains.
This is the part that concerns me. Yes, the Type2 stuff is a premix and I don't know how to get a 50/50 mix by using a premix after a flush as the system will be filled with water. Any ideas? For $5/Gallon, I'm willing to see some waste.
If you can get the all the Dex out should be ok. That said, Type2 is a premix so getting a 50% system concentration isn't the easiest thing to achieve without some waste or finding/using block drains.
This is the part that concerns me. Yes, the Type2 stuff is a premix and I don't know how to get a 50/50 mix by using a premix after a flush as the system will be filled with water. Any ideas? For $5/Gallon, I'm willing to see some waste.
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Any ideas? For $5/Gallon, I'm willing to see some waste..
Then you could do similar to what I did when the Honda stealer used original green AF on an 01 Civic instead of Type2 when doing a head gasket job. Block drain is a pita to mess with.
Drain the Dex, refill with distilled water, drive and repeat until the what drains looks relatively clear. Then fill with Type 2, drain, drive and repeat until you acheive the desired concentration, ~50%. This also requires a hydrometer, I bought an inexpensive (Chaslyn AF Tester at Wally, and yes made in USA. O'R sells them too, worked great. I returned the more expensive Deka I bought at Napa because it wasn't accurate when tested with new Type2 from the jug. The procedure takes some time, but it does work. After it's complete, you can just do radiator drain and fills more often, and not mess with system flush.
Any ideas? For $5/Gallon, I'm willing to see some waste..
Then you could do similar to what I did when the Honda stealer used original green AF on an 01 Civic instead of Type2 when doing a head gasket job. Block drain is a pita to mess with.
Drain the Dex, refill with distilled water, drive and repeat until the what drains looks relatively clear. Then fill with Type 2, drain, drive and repeat until you acheive the desired concentration, ~50%. This also requires a hydrometer, I bought an inexpensive (Chaslyn AF Tester at Wally, and yes made in USA. O'R sells them too, worked great. I returned the more expensive Deka I bought at Napa because it wasn't accurate when tested with new Type2 from the jug. The procedure takes some time, but it does work. After it's complete, you can just do radiator drain and fills more often, and not mess with system flush.
You could use Honda type II in GM vehicles but you should get all of the old Dexcool out. Type II is a phospated coolant. But even at $5/gal premix you can still get Dexcool just as cheap. You can get Dexcool/Dexclone for under $10/gal if you look around. I wouldnt bother with switching from Dexcool.
As I recall, Honda Type 2 blue uses phosphates but doesn't contain silicates or borates. It probably would not be a good idea to use Honda Type 2 in a GM due to the phosphates. Prestone AMAM or Super Tech would be better choices. Use either with confidence and distilled water.
You're only recommending Preston AMAM and Super Tech, what's wrong with Peak AMAM ? Sometimes I use Peak AMAM because it's on sale and with rebate the cost can be as little as $1-2/gal, the other times I use Preston because it's cheaper.
To my understanding, Preston AMAM is similar to Peak AMAM.
To my understanding, Preston AMAM is similar to Peak AMAM.
I'd have no issue using a P-OAT in a Dex vehicle, with a complete flush of Dex, if the price of the P-OAT right. Never heard of P being an issue in any application. Because of possible gasket compatibility issues, can't automatically say the same in the reverse situation.
That said, can't disagree with those also recommending Dex here, especially in a full strength. And, since Type 2 is premix.
And I agree, if shopping for a Dexclone/Universal, imo Peak Long Life every bit as good as Prestone AMM LL. Both 2eha based.
That said, can't disagree with those also recommending Dex here, especially in a full strength. And, since Type 2 is premix.
And I agree, if shopping for a Dexclone/Universal, imo Peak Long Life every bit as good as Prestone AMM LL. Both 2eha based.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
You're only recommending Preston AMAM and Super Tech, what's wrong with Peak AMAM ? Sometimes I use Peak AMAM because it's on sale and with rebate the cost can be as little as $1-2/gal, the other times I use Preston because it's cheaper.
To my understanding, Preston AMAM is similar to Peak AMAM.
Interesting rebate price, but I have never heard of Peak AMAM. Are you talking about Peak Global (doubt it with that kind of rebate) or Peak Long Life (still doubt that) or original Peak green with silicates and phosphates (possible at rebate price)?
As for recommending Super Tech and Prestone AMAM... Super Tech is easier to find than Peak (think emergency after 8 PM when the parts stores carrying Peak usally are closed) and Prestone AMAM seems to be everywhere.
I have nothing against Peak other than NJTSRN QT-1. I want to know what is going in.
You're only recommending Preston AMAM and Super Tech, what's wrong with Peak AMAM ? Sometimes I use Peak AMAM because it's on sale and with rebate the cost can be as little as $1-2/gal, the other times I use Preston because it's cheaper.
To my understanding, Preston AMAM is similar to Peak AMAM.
Interesting rebate price, but I have never heard of Peak AMAM. Are you talking about Peak Global (doubt it with that kind of rebate) or Peak Long Life (still doubt that) or original Peak green with silicates and phosphates (possible at rebate price)?
As for recommending Super Tech and Prestone AMAM... Super Tech is easier to find than Peak (think emergency after 8 PM when the parts stores carrying Peak usally are closed) and Prestone AMAM seems to be everywhere.
I have nothing against Peak other than NJTSRN QT-1. I want to know what is going in.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
I'd have no issue using a P-OAT in a Dex vehicle, with a complete flush of Dex, if the price of the P-OAT right. Never heard of P being an issue in any application. Because of possible gasket compatibility issues, can't automatically say the same in the reverse situation.
That said, can't disagree with those also recommending Dex here, especially in a full strength. And, since Type 2 is premix.
And I agree, if shopping for a Dexclone/Universal, imo Peak Long Life every bit as good as Prestone AMM LL. Both 2eha based.
Europe liked silicates because hard water made phosphates react to calcium and magnesium forming scale. Asia hates silicates as they can wear out water pumps.
THANKFULLY both Europe and Asia are going to OAT coolants like Peak Long Life, Prestone AMAM, Super Tech, etc. which have no borates, nitrites, phosphates, or silicates.
The OP can chance ruining his cooling system if he wants. It just seems odd to use P-OAT coolant in a GM that came with Dexcool having neither phosphates or silicates.
I have only seen Honda Type II premixed 50/50. That would get expensive flushing and draining to get all the Dexcool out. There is no benefit to doing so.
I'd have no issue using a P-OAT in a Dex vehicle, with a complete flush of Dex, if the price of the P-OAT right. Never heard of P being an issue in any application. Because of possible gasket compatibility issues, can't automatically say the same in the reverse situation.
That said, can't disagree with those also recommending Dex here, especially in a full strength. And, since Type 2 is premix.
And I agree, if shopping for a Dexclone/Universal, imo Peak Long Life every bit as good as Prestone AMM LL. Both 2eha based.
Europe liked silicates because hard water made phosphates react to calcium and magnesium forming scale. Asia hates silicates as they can wear out water pumps.
THANKFULLY both Europe and Asia are going to OAT coolants like Peak Long Life, Prestone AMAM, Super Tech, etc. which have no borates, nitrites, phosphates, or silicates.
The OP can chance ruining his cooling system if he wants. It just seems odd to use P-OAT coolant in a GM that came with Dexcool having neither phosphates or silicates.
I have only seen Honda Type II premixed 50/50. That would get expensive flushing and draining to get all the Dexcool out. There is no benefit to doing so.
How about Honda Type 2 in an old '92 Civic like my app?
Seriously, that or I buy full concentrate of something like the Beck/Arnley 'green' coolant and dilute it myself.
http://www.beckarnley.com/bafluids.html
Seriously, that or I buy full concentrate of something like the Beck/Arnley 'green' coolant and dilute it myself.
http://www.beckarnley.com/bafluids.html
Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man
Originally Posted By: sayjac
I'd have no issue using a P-OAT in a Dex vehicle, with a complete flush of Dex, if the price of the P-OAT right. Never heard of P being an issue in any application. Because of possible gasket compatibility issues, can't automatically say the same in the reverse situation.
That said, can't disagree with those also recommending Dex here, especially in a full strength. And, since Type 2 is premix.
And I agree, if shopping for a Dexclone/Universal, imo Peak Long Life every bit as good as Prestone AMM LL. Both 2eha based.
Europe liked silicates because hard water made phosphates react to calcium and magnesium forming scale. Asia hates silicates as they can wear out water pumps.
THANKFULLY both Europe and Asia are going to OAT coolants like Peak Long Life, Prestone AMAM, Super Tech, etc. which have no borates, nitrites, phosphates, or silicates.
The OP can chance ruining his cooling system if he wants. It just seems odd to use P-OAT coolant in a GM that came with Dexcool having neither phosphates or silicates.
I have only seen Honda Type II premixed 50/50. That would get expensive flushing and draining to get all the Dexcool out. There is no benefit to doing so.
A lot of European coolants are silicated OAT and Asians are phosphated OAT. Phophate coolant won't harm GM cooling systems or any other really as long as the old coolant is removed. People have used silicated and phosphate coolant and even borated and nitate and nitited coolant in GM vehicles with good results. But for later models that dont have any issues with Dexcool it makes no sense to switch away from Dexcool.
All coolants meets several ASTM standards regardless of their formula OAT or IAT. the compatibility issue is usually with OATs and gasket compatibility and copper-brass radiators on older models.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
I'd have no issue using a P-OAT in a Dex vehicle, with a complete flush of Dex, if the price of the P-OAT right. Never heard of P being an issue in any application. Because of possible gasket compatibility issues, can't automatically say the same in the reverse situation.
That said, can't disagree with those also recommending Dex here, especially in a full strength. And, since Type 2 is premix.
And I agree, if shopping for a Dexclone/Universal, imo Peak Long Life every bit as good as Prestone AMM LL. Both 2eha based.
Europe liked silicates because hard water made phosphates react to calcium and magnesium forming scale. Asia hates silicates as they can wear out water pumps.
THANKFULLY both Europe and Asia are going to OAT coolants like Peak Long Life, Prestone AMAM, Super Tech, etc. which have no borates, nitrites, phosphates, or silicates.
The OP can chance ruining his cooling system if he wants. It just seems odd to use P-OAT coolant in a GM that came with Dexcool having neither phosphates or silicates.
I have only seen Honda Type II premixed 50/50. That would get expensive flushing and draining to get all the Dexcool out. There is no benefit to doing so.
A lot of European coolants are silicated OAT and Asians are phosphated OAT. Phophate coolant won't harm GM cooling systems or any other really as long as the old coolant is removed. People have used silicated and phosphate coolant and even borated and nitate and nitited coolant in GM vehicles with good results. But for later models that dont have any issues with Dexcool it makes no sense to switch away from Dexcool.
All coolants meets several ASTM standards regardless of their formula OAT or IAT. the compatibility issue is usually with OATs and gasket compatibility and copper-brass radiators on older models.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
A lot of European coolants are silicated OAT and Asians are phosphated OAT. Phophate coolant won't harm GM cooling systems or any other really as long as the old coolant is removed. People have used silicated and phosphate coolant and even borated and nitate and nitited coolant in GM vehicles with good results. But for later models that dont have any issues with Dexcool it makes no sense to switch away from Dexcool.
All coolants meets several ASTM standards regardless of their formula OAT or IAT. the compatibility issue is usually with OATs and gasket compatibility and copper-brass radiators on older models.
You have to be careful. Just because you or anyone says something doesn't make it true. GM uses Dexcool which has no phosphates. Why use a coolant that uses phosphates in this application? What is the benefit?
$5/gallon? OK. So at least 15 gallons is going to be needed to flush out MOST of the Dexcool or most of the water if flushed prior. $75 is a bit steep to go to something of no benefit whatsoever.
Like I said earlier, the OP can chance ruining his cooling system anyway he pleases. Or he could use something that has a guarantee of working such as Dexcool, Prestone AMAM, or Super Tech.
A lot of European coolants are silicated OAT and Asians are phosphated OAT. Phophate coolant won't harm GM cooling systems or any other really as long as the old coolant is removed. People have used silicated and phosphate coolant and even borated and nitate and nitited coolant in GM vehicles with good results. But for later models that dont have any issues with Dexcool it makes no sense to switch away from Dexcool.
All coolants meets several ASTM standards regardless of their formula OAT or IAT. the compatibility issue is usually with OATs and gasket compatibility and copper-brass radiators on older models.
You have to be careful. Just because you or anyone says something doesn't make it true. GM uses Dexcool which has no phosphates. Why use a coolant that uses phosphates in this application? What is the benefit?
$5/gallon? OK. So at least 15 gallons is going to be needed to flush out MOST of the Dexcool or most of the water if flushed prior. $75 is a bit steep to go to something of no benefit whatsoever.
Like I said earlier, the OP can chance ruining his cooling system anyway he pleases. Or he could use something that has a guarantee of working such as Dexcool, Prestone AMAM, or Super Tech.
Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man
Interesting rebate price, but I have never heard of Peak AMAM. Are you talking about Peak Global (doubt it with that kind of rebate) or Peak Long Life (still doubt that) or original Peak green with silicates and phosphates (possible at rebate price)?
Sometimes the Pep Boys by me have Peak Long Life premixed free after rebate.
Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man
I have nothing against Peak other than NJTSRN QT-1. I want to know what is going in.
That would be useful info. Peak doesn't offer a licensed DexCool product. Is it because they don't meet the spec or because they don't want to pay the license fee?
Interesting rebate price, but I have never heard of Peak AMAM. Are you talking about Peak Global (doubt it with that kind of rebate) or Peak Long Life (still doubt that) or original Peak green with silicates and phosphates (possible at rebate price)?
Sometimes the Pep Boys by me have Peak Long Life premixed free after rebate.
Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man
I have nothing against Peak other than NJTSRN QT-1. I want to know what is going in.
That would be useful info. Peak doesn't offer a licensed DexCool product. Is it because they don't meet the spec or because they don't want to pay the license fee?
Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
A lot of European coolants are silicated OAT and Asians are phosphated OAT. Phophate coolant won't harm GM cooling systems or any other really as long as the old coolant is removed. People have used silicated and phosphate coolant and even borated and nitate and nitited coolant in GM vehicles with good results. But for later models that dont have any issues with Dexcool it makes no sense to switch away from Dexcool.
All coolants meets several ASTM standards regardless of their formula OAT or IAT. the compatibility issue is usually with OATs and gasket compatibility and copper-brass radiators on older models.
You have to be careful. Just because you or anyone says something doesn't make it true. GM uses Dexcool which has no phosphates. Why use a coolant that uses phosphates in this application? What is the benefit?
$5/gallon? OK. So at least 15 gallons is going to be needed to flush out MOST of the Dexcool or most of the water if flushed prior. $75 is a bit steep to go to something of no benefit whatsoever.
Like I said earlier, the OP can chance ruining his cooling system anyway he pleases. Or he could use something that has a guarantee of working such as Dexcool, Prestone AMAM, or Super Tech.
The reason for phosphates (or silicates) is it is a fast acting inhibitor that isn't effect by air in the coolant. That's the reasoning that Asians use it. As I explained, some older GM applications that were Dexcool filled actually have problems with Dexcool and air in the cooling system. But on a later model there is no issues or any reason to use another coolant type. Phosphates and silicates do not harm cooling systems in any way and have been used many times for many years. The key thing is getting over 90% fill of one coolant type or the other. Silicates may possible shorten water pump life but that is debatable. Like I said all these coolants meet several ASTM standards for performance. It doesn't matter to me if you believe that or not.
So there's no guarantee that Dexcool will work OK in every system that was filled with it, but on most models and later models it does work fine. If one is going to get Dexcool, it's probably best to get a licensed version from Prestone, Zerex or Havoline. I prefer the latter two. Dexcool isn't an exact formula per se but usually is an OAT formula (no phosphate, silicates, borates etc) and contains 2EHA, but can contain a different secindary OAT inhibitor or even an IAT like molybdate which isn't that for different from using phosphate.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
A lot of European coolants are silicated OAT and Asians are phosphated OAT. Phophate coolant won't harm GM cooling systems or any other really as long as the old coolant is removed. People have used silicated and phosphate coolant and even borated and nitate and nitited coolant in GM vehicles with good results. But for later models that dont have any issues with Dexcool it makes no sense to switch away from Dexcool.
All coolants meets several ASTM standards regardless of their formula OAT or IAT. the compatibility issue is usually with OATs and gasket compatibility and copper-brass radiators on older models.
You have to be careful. Just because you or anyone says something doesn't make it true. GM uses Dexcool which has no phosphates. Why use a coolant that uses phosphates in this application? What is the benefit?
$5/gallon? OK. So at least 15 gallons is going to be needed to flush out MOST of the Dexcool or most of the water if flushed prior. $75 is a bit steep to go to something of no benefit whatsoever.
Like I said earlier, the OP can chance ruining his cooling system anyway he pleases. Or he could use something that has a guarantee of working such as Dexcool, Prestone AMAM, or Super Tech.
The reason for phosphates (or silicates) is it is a fast acting inhibitor that isn't effect by air in the coolant. That's the reasoning that Asians use it. As I explained, some older GM applications that were Dexcool filled actually have problems with Dexcool and air in the cooling system. But on a later model there is no issues or any reason to use another coolant type. Phosphates and silicates do not harm cooling systems in any way and have been used many times for many years. The key thing is getting over 90% fill of one coolant type or the other. Silicates may possible shorten water pump life but that is debatable. Like I said all these coolants meet several ASTM standards for performance. It doesn't matter to me if you believe that or not.
So there's no guarantee that Dexcool will work OK in every system that was filled with it, but on most models and later models it does work fine. If one is going to get Dexcool, it's probably best to get a licensed version from Prestone, Zerex or Havoline. I prefer the latter two. Dexcool isn't an exact formula per se but usually is an OAT formula (no phosphate, silicates, borates etc) and contains 2EHA, but can contain a different secindary OAT inhibitor or even an IAT like molybdate which isn't that for different from using phosphate.
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
How about Honda Type 2 in an old '92 Civic like my app?
Seriously, that or I buy full concentrate of something like the Beck/Arnley 'green' coolant and dilute it myself.
http://www.beckarnley.com/bafluids.html
honda type 2 is compatible with all hondas, honda no longer makes the green stuff and recommends type 2 to be used instead.
How about Honda Type 2 in an old '92 Civic like my app?
Seriously, that or I buy full concentrate of something like the Beck/Arnley 'green' coolant and dilute it myself.
http://www.beckarnley.com/bafluids.html
honda type 2 is compatible with all hondas, honda no longer makes the green stuff and recommends type 2 to be used instead.
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