Doctors Going Broke
- Thread starter The Critic
- Start date
- Status
The average pay for an attorney is $62,000/yr too. I read a report saying that Dr.s were leaving Canada faster than they could replace them due to the nature of medicine up there, seems like we're trying our hardest to emulate Canada.
JHZR2
Staff member
Is the practice going broke or the doctor? It wasnt clear. The doctors can "earn" whatever they like, but if they are pulling too much of a salary, then it is their own fault.
If their overhead is too high, it is their own fault.
Sure, insurance limits payouts, and there are risks, insurance needs, etc. I get that.
But every insurance payout that I see indicates that the doctor is getting PAID the equivalent of $350-1000/HOUR! And that's being generous and saying that I actually saw the doctor for 15 minutes, which is not the case.
So at $400/hr, the doctor can take home $100/hr (which is $200k/yr, which even if that is a "burdened" rate, equates to $100k/yr, a fairly cadillac health plan, 401k, overhead to keep the lights on, etc). Then the practice can pay SIX people $50/hr burdened rate (which comes to say, $25/hr ($50k/yr)) for a few office folks, and some rent.
Im not seeing the problem unless the doctor is expecting $250k plus support staff and everything else.
If their overhead is too high, it is their own fault.
Sure, insurance limits payouts, and there are risks, insurance needs, etc. I get that.
But every insurance payout that I see indicates that the doctor is getting PAID the equivalent of $350-1000/HOUR! And that's being generous and saying that I actually saw the doctor for 15 minutes, which is not the case.
So at $400/hr, the doctor can take home $100/hr (which is $200k/yr, which even if that is a "burdened" rate, equates to $100k/yr, a fairly cadillac health plan, 401k, overhead to keep the lights on, etc). Then the practice can pay SIX people $50/hr burdened rate (which comes to say, $25/hr ($50k/yr)) for a few office folks, and some rent.
Im not seeing the problem unless the doctor is expecting $250k plus support staff and everything else.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Mixologist
I read a report saying that Dr.s were leaving Canada faster than they could replace them due to the nature of medicine up there, seems like we're trying our hardest to emulate Canada.
Well if Canadian doctors can transfer their license and practice here (where pay can be whatever you want it to be within reason), then it is a no brainer if they dont like the pay.
But if they are going to leave the US, where are they going to go? China? Ill call that bluff. Last one please turn off the lights.
Considering that Greece's economy is like the size of Indiana, and Germany's like the size of CA, I highly doubt theyll find a better deal elsewhere.
The whole system needs to be shaken up severely to be sustainable. Until doctor salaries have parity to other highly trained and intelligent positions that dont get the croneyism of the AMA, drug costs get under control and have consistency the world over, and people start having some control of their health (and face dire circumstances when they dont), we will continue to have issues.
I read a report saying that Dr.s were leaving Canada faster than they could replace them due to the nature of medicine up there, seems like we're trying our hardest to emulate Canada.
Well if Canadian doctors can transfer their license and practice here (where pay can be whatever you want it to be within reason), then it is a no brainer if they dont like the pay.
But if they are going to leave the US, where are they going to go? China? Ill call that bluff. Last one please turn off the lights.
Considering that Greece's economy is like the size of Indiana, and Germany's like the size of CA, I highly doubt theyll find a better deal elsewhere.
The whole system needs to be shaken up severely to be sustainable. Until doctor salaries have parity to other highly trained and intelligent positions that dont get the croneyism of the AMA, drug costs get under control and have consistency the world over, and people start having some control of their health (and face dire circumstances when they dont), we will continue to have issues.
We also have to remember that the amount of student loans the majority of the doctors have and the hours they put in when they are interns. The fee they charge is not what they receive because the insurance companies bargain for a reduced rates. They have to have additional employees to deal with and file insurance claims. My doctor is very caring and she volunteers at a clinic for people that can not afford medical care. Many doctors give back to their community by volunteering to help the needy and find ways to get free or low cost meds or glasses. If a doctor makes a good take home salary I feel they have earned their money. The man that worked on my heat pump for about 45 minutes charged me about $450. and he certainly did not have the amount of training my doctor did.
Doctors will quit private practice and switch to hospital practices where the infrastructure and administrative resources are adequate to make sure they get paid.
By the way, isn't this a political thread?
By the way, isn't this a political thread?
Originally Posted By: hr1940
The man that worked on my heat pump for about 45 minutes charged me about $450. and he certainly did not have the amount of training my doctor did.
That's not really a fair statement, unless he charged $450 just for labor. I'm sure the bill included cost of parts and maybe even fuel surcharges.
The man that worked on my heat pump for about 45 minutes charged me about $450. and he certainly did not have the amount of training my doctor did.
That's not really a fair statement, unless he charged $450 just for labor. I'm sure the bill included cost of parts and maybe even fuel surcharges.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Is the practice going broke or the doctor? It wasnt clear. The doctors can "earn" whatever they like, but if they are pulling too much of a salary, then it is their own fault.
If their overhead is too high, it is their own fault.
Sure, insurance limits payouts, and there are risks, insurance needs, etc. I get that.
But every insurance payout that I see indicates that the doctor is getting PAID the equivalent of $350-1000/HOUR! And that's being generous and saying that I actually saw the doctor for 15 minutes, which is not the case.
So at $400/hr, the doctor can take home $100/hr.
I think the article's point is that, using your example, Medicare does not pay $400 per hour, but say $150, so the doctor is losing $150 - $300 = $150 loss after overhead. My cardiologist claims that he has to have his stress test equipment recalibrated after conducting a certain number of tests on patients. He says Medicare's reimbursement does not cover the per patient share of the calibration cost, therefore he is taking money out of his pocket to test every Medicare client.
Is the practice going broke or the doctor? It wasnt clear. The doctors can "earn" whatever they like, but if they are pulling too much of a salary, then it is their own fault.
If their overhead is too high, it is their own fault.
Sure, insurance limits payouts, and there are risks, insurance needs, etc. I get that.
But every insurance payout that I see indicates that the doctor is getting PAID the equivalent of $350-1000/HOUR! And that's being generous and saying that I actually saw the doctor for 15 minutes, which is not the case.
So at $400/hr, the doctor can take home $100/hr.
I think the article's point is that, using your example, Medicare does not pay $400 per hour, but say $150, so the doctor is losing $150 - $300 = $150 loss after overhead. My cardiologist claims that he has to have his stress test equipment recalibrated after conducting a certain number of tests on patients. He says Medicare's reimbursement does not cover the per patient share of the calibration cost, therefore he is taking money out of his pocket to test every Medicare client.
Doctors are similar to any other field.
Highly trained and technical people with great abilities are there but business operations are a completely different matter. For years doctors have had copious cash flow which solves most any problem.
Now times are different. I agree with JHZR2 that the 'system' needs copious reform!
Highly trained and technical people with great abilities are there but business operations are a completely different matter. For years doctors have had copious cash flow which solves most any problem.
Now times are different. I agree with JHZR2 that the 'system' needs copious reform!
Originally Posted By: hr1940
We also have to remember that the amount of student loans the majority of the doctors have and the hours they put in when they are interns.
Yes but medical school admissions (and tuition) is one of the first barriers of entry the old-boy network has put up.
Fortunately (?) there are programs where if one does slave labor as a general practicioner/ family practicioner in some ghetto somewhere for a few years, some tuition loans are forgiven.
We also have to remember that the amount of student loans the majority of the doctors have and the hours they put in when they are interns.
Yes but medical school admissions (and tuition) is one of the first barriers of entry the old-boy network has put up.
Fortunately (?) there are programs where if one does slave labor as a general practicioner/ family practicioner in some ghetto somewhere for a few years, some tuition loans are forgiven.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Burt
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Is the practice going broke or the doctor? It wasnt clear. The doctors can "earn" whatever they like, but if they are pulling too much of a salary, then it is their own fault.
If their overhead is too high, it is their own fault.
Sure, insurance limits payouts, and there are risks, insurance needs, etc. I get that.
But every insurance payout that I see indicates that the doctor is getting PAID the equivalent of $350-1000/HOUR! And that's being generous and saying that I actually saw the doctor for 15 minutes, which is not the case.
So at $400/hr, the doctor can take home $100/hr.
I think the article's point is that, using your example, Medicare does not pay $400 per hour, but say $150, so the doctor is losing $150 - $300 = $150 loss after overhead. My cardiologist claims that he has to have his stress test equipment recalibrated after conducting a certain number of tests on patients. He says Medicare's reimbursement does not cover the per patient share of the calibration cost, therefore he is taking money out of his pocket to test every Medicare client.
Maybe medicare doesn't but I look at every EOB that I get, and the allowed rate that the insurance pays is very high. Considering the time I actually saw the doctor, it absolutely comes out to a rate as I cited.
Now if something like a calibration cost is high, its likely due to the profit scheme laid on it. No different then when doctors charge for use of equipment that has been fully paid for time and time again.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Is the practice going broke or the doctor? It wasnt clear. The doctors can "earn" whatever they like, but if they are pulling too much of a salary, then it is their own fault.
If their overhead is too high, it is their own fault.
Sure, insurance limits payouts, and there are risks, insurance needs, etc. I get that.
But every insurance payout that I see indicates that the doctor is getting PAID the equivalent of $350-1000/HOUR! And that's being generous and saying that I actually saw the doctor for 15 minutes, which is not the case.
So at $400/hr, the doctor can take home $100/hr.
I think the article's point is that, using your example, Medicare does not pay $400 per hour, but say $150, so the doctor is losing $150 - $300 = $150 loss after overhead. My cardiologist claims that he has to have his stress test equipment recalibrated after conducting a certain number of tests on patients. He says Medicare's reimbursement does not cover the per patient share of the calibration cost, therefore he is taking money out of his pocket to test every Medicare client.
Maybe medicare doesn't but I look at every EOB that I get, and the allowed rate that the insurance pays is very high. Considering the time I actually saw the doctor, it absolutely comes out to a rate as I cited.
Now if something like a calibration cost is high, its likely due to the profit scheme laid on it. No different then when doctors charge for use of equipment that has been fully paid for time and time again.
This gubment needs to look at schooling as well. Schools are eye-jabbing every1. Has anyone looked into what a 4 yr degree runs NOW compared to 10 yrs ago.. It's sickening.
Speaking of rates these Dr's get. I have a vasectomy 3 months ago and for the 15minute procedure the reimbursment was $630 (10% of that was my portion). I asked the Dr how many he does in any given month and he stated between 30-50. That's just this procedure and there were 23 Dr's in this practice. I approve Dr's pay getting scaled down.
And I've worked Health Insurance for over 15 years. So I see all sorts of FUBAR/Shady stuff going on.
Speaking of rates these Dr's get. I have a vasectomy 3 months ago and for the 15minute procedure the reimbursment was $630 (10% of that was my portion). I asked the Dr how many he does in any given month and he stated between 30-50. That's just this procedure and there were 23 Dr's in this practice. I approve Dr's pay getting scaled down.
And I've worked Health Insurance for over 15 years. So I see all sorts of FUBAR/Shady stuff going on.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
