Stihl Motomix vs Trufuel 50:1

[engineerscott]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
"Wrong. High Density Polyethylene (HDPE), which is what most gas can/tanks are make of, is permeable to both water vapor and oxygen. It takes time for water vapor or O2 to migrate through, but it definitely happens."

How many million years will it take for one cup of water to infiltrate a five gallon fuel container if tightly sealed?

The ethanol water absorption hysteria is wildly exaggerated. A person is more likely to suffer from the effects of contaminated fuel when filling their container at the pump.


You think it takes a cup of water to ruin a gallon of gas???

Not millions of years btw. Less than a year for sure.

Do what you will. I really don't know why you're here, since clearly you know all there is to know.

 

[boraticus]

"You think it takes a cup of water to ruin a gallon of gas???"

Nope. It won't ruin the gas. It will migrate to the bottom and accumulate there. The rest of the fuel will still be suitable for use.

"Not millions of years btw. Less than a year for sure."

Wildly exaggerated. One year for a cup of water to permeate through a tightly sealed plastic container????? Please....


"Do what you will. I really don't know why you're here, since clearly you know all there is to know."

I will continue to do what I do, thank you.

I'll tell you why I'm here. To challenge alarmists, exaggerators, snake oil salesmen and others who spread less than accurate or realistic information.

It would appear that those who create and support doomsday scenarios (such as the imminent demise of all gasoline burning engines due to ethanol in gasoline for instance), may be doing so for two possible reasons. A) They just don't know, or B) There's something in it for them.

Not to beleaguer this discussion but, to apply just a bit of common sense, think of all of the vehicles in the world burning fuel with ethanol in it. If ethanol fuel was as bad as the some people here claim, the world would be at a stand still and our highways and streets clogged with vehicles waylaid due to their fuel tanks being full of "absorbed" water. Haven't seen it happen yet.

 

[engineerscott]

You seem to be under the illusion that water vapor is only an issue if it causes phase separation. That is not the case.

I am not being an alarmist about E10. It does have issues with it being hygroscopic, but this is mainly an issue for fuel that will be stored for a significant amount of time. Fuel that is being rotated through relatively quickly (less than 30 days) will have little to no issue with water absorption. There are other issues with E10, mainly polymer compatibility issues with various seals and plastic components, but by in larger these issues have been sorted out by judicious selection of materials. The largest remaining issue is that the presence of ethanol tends to promote polymerization of some of the other fuel components. Additives can reduce but not eliminate these problems. Polymerization will result in the formation of gums and varnishes, and it is widely recognized that E10 has more problems in this regard compared to E0.

These are the unvarnished (no pun intended) facts about E10. Most users will have no issue running E10 in their equipment or in their automobile, aside from increased fuel consumption. However, for equipment which is less frequently used, or for fuel storage, E10 has certain downsides that are well known and understood.

You seem to have simply declared that there are no issues with E10. Your opinion runs counter to established evidence.

 

[boraticus]

Not saying there are no issues. I'm simply stating that much of the hysteria we read about here is highly exaggerated. From my experience and those of others I know, if the fuel is properly stored and is uncontaminated to begin with, the possibility of fuel/water issues will be minimal. In most cases, if properly managed and stored, it will be non-existent even if fuel is kept in well sealed containers for months at a time.

 

[bighorn250]

There are 2 sides to the ethanol coin; yes it is extremely corrosive to aluminum, rubber, plastics and other metals. It also burns less efficiently and you get less mpg or hours however you want to look at it. It however does have a high octane rating as well as burns cleaner. The outdoor power equipment worlds as well as the marine world are more affected due to the use of vented systems and attraction of water.
That being said there is no reason to use these boutique fuels that cost up to 10 bucks for 32 oz. You can buy an 8oz bottle of Marine STA-BIL that treats 80 gallons. It fights the harmful affects of ethanol. I bought it at Bass Pro Shop and based on the research I did it is the only fuel additive that is recommended by OE manufacturers. I’ve been using it in my boat, lawnmower and motorcycle for a few years now ad it has been great

 

[occity79]

Sunoco Standard 110 $45.00 for 5 GALLONS- long shelf life, consistent quality, no oxygenators. Made for high rpm engines.

My own oil of choice at MY choice of ratio- priceless.

These quart cans are just not a good value at this time, maybe in five years after E15 is forced down our throats.

I did buy a few of these truefuels just to get the excellent cans for storing my premix in smaller amounts, for easier carrying in the woods.

 

[steve20]

a big THANKS to Scott for his expert insight into the issues

 

[Bluestream]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
Not saying there are no issues. I'm simply stating that much of the hysteria we read about here is highly exaggerated. From my experience and those of others I know, if the fuel is properly stored and is uncontaminated to begin with, the possibility of fuel/water issues will be minimal. In most cases, if properly managed and stored, it will be non-existent even if fuel is kept in well sealed containers for months at a time.


You need to keep in mind that these guys are dealing with E10, and that should never be left in an engine during the storage period. Bora, you still have pure gas in your area, and that is a whole differnt ball game...

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Not saying there are no issues. I'm simply stating that much of the hysteria we read about here is highly exaggerated. From my experience and those of others I know, if the fuel is properly stored and is uncontaminated to begin with, the possibility of fuel/water issues will be minimal. In most cases, if properly managed and stored, it will be non-existent even if fuel is kept in well sealed containers for months at a time.


You need to keep in mind that these guys are dealing with E10, and that should never be left in an engine during the storage period. Bora, you still have pure gas in your area, and that is a whole differnt ball game...

Where do you get the idea that we have "pure gas" in this area? We've had ethanol in the fuel for over a decade to manage moisture in the fuel during the six months of winter we endure.

I must live under a huge pyramid that protects me from all of the E10 woes that so many participants seem to experience?

 

[Bluestream]

Bora, I thought you lived in BC...At any rate, you can still buy ethanol free premium, and I use that in all my OPE and 2-stroke engines...