Hyundai and Kia vs Toyota and Honda also Mazda

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Just wondering if the quality for Hyundai and Kia is on par with the Toyota and Honda now. Internal engine parts on par?
What about longevity vs Honda and Toyota?

Is Mazda in the same league? Also what about longevity vs Toyota and Honda?
 
Saw the engine compartment of a 2004 KIA Optima today....all of the plastic wire shielding (the convolute covering) was brittle and missing large chunks.Touching it,would make it crumble in little pieces.If the plastic protective covering is not standing up,how can anything else? Where else have they cheapened out? And its an Optima,not a Rio.....should be better made.
My 88 Dodge has intact wire covering. (you would think something as simple as that,would last).
 
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I have owned several Mazdas. Some over 250,000 miles. Currently I have a Hiroshima built 2001 Protege' with 199,000 miles no oil burning, no problems and no complaints (original owner). I am very happy with Mazda (not Fazdas though had a Probe which I liked alot) I know people with trouble free Kias and Hyundais with over 100,000 miles for the exception of their minivans. For some reason their minivans are more problematic. Though I know someone who has an Oddesey with 120,000 miles on it's third transmission. New Kias and Hyundais seem to be as well built as any other offering from the same continent or nearby.
 
Originally Posted By: Michelob
Just wondering if the quality for Hyundai and Kia is on par with the Toyota and Honda now. Internal engine parts on par?
What about longevity vs Honda and Toyota?

Is Mazda in the same league? Also what about longevity vs Toyota and Honda?


Trends and averages are just that. It still matters a lot how it was maintained/treated. Also, specific models and years matter.

Hyundai has cetainly improved in the last 5 or 6 years and KIA the last few years. I would still put Honda and Toyota in the top tier with the rest of the the Japanese second tier. Hyundai and KIA are generally around that second tier depending on model.

The other main point is that reliability is all about probabilities. Sure some cars might require more repairs. However, if I save $2K on the purchase price and spend $1K on repairs, I am still ahead.

For example, I have a Chevy 4x4 truck considerred by Consumer Reports as one of the worst of the worst. It cost me $5K less than a comparable Toyota truck. I have meticulously maintained it and in 10 yrs/150K I have had to replace a water pump and a fuel pump for cost of the parts.
 
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Saw the engine compartment of a 2004 KIA Optima today....all of the plastic wire shielding (the convolute covering) was brittle and missing large chunks.Touching it,would make it crumble in little pieces.If the plastic protective covering is not standing up,how can anything else? Where else have they cheapened out? And its an Optima,not a Rio.....should be better made.
My 88 Dodge has intact wire covering. (you would think something as simple as that,would last).


I don't quite think it is fair to compare a 2004 Hyundai to today's. They are very different, much better.

I can't speak for Toyota, I will let where their reputation has gone in the last few years speak for me.

Honda has really let me down in the last couple of years. I have a 2010 civic and it is a reliable engine wrapped with cheap plastic, not to mention the transmission has not really gotten a decent upgrade. I also owned a 2011 Accord EX I4 for a while and I was disappointed in that. My 2007 Accord VP was much better and it was a VP!

I like my Altima, solid and my engine is wearing excellently. Not the most comfortable.

Mazda's are pricey things but are solid well built, fun cars.

I think you can definitely get the best "bang for your buck" with a Hyundai (good warranty). All the others don't want to give you any deals. It is like the feel entitled to your business.

I am going with an American made car next. 2012 Charger with the V6 Pentastar is a good deal right now. They also have some 2011's left, very nice car and engine. Just do your home work on as many sites as possible.

Forget HONDA AND TOYOTA. I feel they have let me down big time. I was a Honda fan, owned MANY, I speak with experience.
 
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Saw the engine compartment of a 2004 KIA Optima today....all of the plastic wire shielding (the convolute covering) was brittle and missing large chunks.Touching it,would make it crumble in little pieces.If the plastic protective covering is not standing up,how can anything else? Where else have they cheapened out? And its an Optima,not a Rio.....should be better made.
My 88 Dodge has intact wire covering. (you would think something as simple as that,would last).


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In 2004, Kia had not found it's way yet.

The Optima from that era was used in a Subaru campaign to epitomize the mediocre Asian sedan. It deserved it. It did not ride comfortably nor did it handle well. It came in last on virtually every comparison. (Safe bet that it is not an inspired car if a low level Dodge Stratus and Chevrolet Malibu from that time is ranking better). And that Hannibal Lector grill
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If I'm not mistaken, Kia was still using a variant of the Mitsubishi Sirius engine in that generation. Could be wrong about that though.

The next generation was styled better, had better spring rates than a "click" type ball point pen, and better dampers. It had Hyundai's variant of the GEMA engine. But they still weren't there yet.

We had a brand new Optima SX turbo in my shop for installation. From the other clients getting out of their cars and gawking, taking pictures with their cel-phones, and asking, "Is this really a Kia?" I would have sworn that I had a Ferrari in my shop. They've definitely found their way on styling. Handling is getting pretty darn close to what you would expect from Honda or Mazda.
 
Unfortunately no real good data on Kia/Hyundai.

Depends what you mean on "longevity". Some folks 150k is a long time and a new vehicle. Others go 200k+.

Hyundai/Kia is cutting costs somewhere but still delivering a wonderful product at the surface. Something has to give and longevity and repair frequency in elder years is my guess. But again pure guess.
 
Originally Posted By: Michelob
Just wondering if the quality for Hyundai and Kia is on par with the Toyota and Honda now. Internal engine parts on par?
What about longevity vs Honda and Toyota?

Is Mazda in the same league? Also what about longevity vs Toyota and Honda?


For a few years, there were very few Mazdas that weren't de-facto Fords.

The Mazda3 is a Ford C1 platform. Shared with the European market Focus and the Volvo S40
The Mazda6 begat the Ford Fusion. There are a few small differences between the Mazda6 and the first Fusion's V6. Mostly things like a Denso style MAF sensor on the Mazda. There are plenty of Ford Ovals under my hood.
The Tribute is built in the Ford Escape factory and based on the older 626.
The B-series Mazda is a Ranger from 1994 on.
The MPV used the Mazda MZI variant of the Ford Duratec30.
The CX-9 is essentially a Ford Edge.
If there are any longevity problems, they should surface in the Fords as well

So that leaves us the MX-5 Miata, Mazda5, CX-7, and RX-8 as "uniquely Mazda" Say what you will about the Mazda Wankel Rotaries in the RX-es but no one has done a rotary better or longer lived than Mazda.
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
There are plenty of Ford Ovals under my hood.


Anything stamped Ford under your hood is due to Ford playing OEM part supplier for Mazda- down to the spark plugs (Made for Ford by NGK). This is obviously, in exchange for the use of Mazda's technology ie 4 cyl engines, chassis etc. They weren't doing it to be nice, or neither because Mazda doesn't know where to get a spark plug or a dipstick assembly. The copious FoMoCo stamps under the hood lead many to believe it's a rebadged Focus, which is inverse in reality.

Quote:

So that leaves us the MX-5 Miata, Mazda5, CX-7, and RX-8 as "uniquely Mazda" Say what you will about the Mazda Wankel Rotaries in the RX-es but no one has done a rotary better or longer lived than Mazda.


Whelp, Ford is not a company to miss any opportunity.. from the Mazda5 is borne the C-Max, from the CX-7 is borne the Edge. Too bad the partnership ended, or we could have had a Ford Roadster too! It's a real shame we stopped getting the Japanese B-series here in NA since 1993. The international B-series, since the 70's, also rebadged as Ranger was a really nice pickup with TDi engine options.

http://autos.ca.msn.com/showroom/consumer-reports-most-reliable-brands?page=7

Consumer Reports ranks Mazda at #4, behind Acura, and ahead of Honda (and Toyota) FWIW
 
Both my Mazdas were built in Hiroshima Japan. I love them! I never owned one till about 5 years ago. Been a hooked fan ever since. Just bought an 06 Miata Grand Touring with 20k miles as well.
Solid build quality. Never ever in the dealer for any problems.

I've also owned a brand new hyundai Accent, 2006. Good reliable car. Excellent gas mileage. After 40k miles the AC compressor took a dump. $1000 to fix. Also had to replace 2 batteries before 40k miles. Those were the only problems. Expensive ones. I still think the Japanese cars are a little more refined then the Koreans. Just my opinion.
 
It's easy to say that Hyundai/Kia of today is "totally different" than in 2004, but realistically we won't know until 2018. Certainly the initial quality seems higher, but I know from experience that it doesn't necessarily translate to long term ownership.

To be clear, I'm not speaking against them. I'm just saying that through history, there have been a lot of claims of how great the "new" cars are (from any brand) but time tells a different story.
 
There is no easy answer. Honda and Toyota cheapened out quite a bit, but their drive trains are still very, very reliable. On the other hand, Hyundai is betting a lot on DI engines, lots of electronic gizmos and polarizing styling, while still having a fair amount of cheapness to them.

There is no clear winner here.
 
Hyundai now has lots of content in the cars, while refining the driving characteristics enough to be livable. Not top of the line, but livable. They used to go for driving characteristics moreso than content in the cars. A 2011 Elantra might have a far nicer interior than a 1999 Elantra, while that 1999, even with 150k miles on it, rides/corners/stops better. I test-drove a 2011 Elantra back in the summer, and my folks recently acquired a 1999 Elantra station wagon. HP/torque is the same between the cars at 138 hp/120ish ft/lbs. MPG is about the same too, with the 2011 getting about 29-30 mpg average while the 1999 gets about 27-28. The 1999 has IRS, while the 2011 has a twist beam.

So, while their styling/interiors/marketing have improved, the driving experience has gone downhill.

Considering a Toyota Corolla is the epitome of beige appliance, and a Civic isn't far behind, the clear winner here is Mazda. The 3, while not getting that fantastic MPG, does drive like it wants to be driven, not like driving is a chore.
 
I read a bumber sticker 3 years back that sumed it up best. It said...

Out of a job yet?
Keep buying foreign.
 
Originally Posted By: 2Fast4U
I read a bumber sticker 3 years back that sumed it up best. It said...

Out of a job yet?
Keep buying foreign.



Did Georgia and Alabama secede again?
 
Originally Posted By: 2Fast4U
I read a bumber sticker 3 years back that sumed it up best. It said...

Out of a job yet?
Keep buying foreign.



And has NOTHING to do with this subject.
 
Hyundai and Kia have come a very long way, but...........I'd still take a Honda or Toyota over a Hyundai or Kia. Although the likelihood of me owning any of the 4 mentioned is pretty slim at the moment. YMMV
 
Originally Posted By: chubbs1


I am going with an American made car next. 2012 Charger with the V6 Pentastar is a good deal right now. They also have some 2011's left, very nice car and engine. Just do your home work on as many sites as possible.


Just a note. That "American" car is built in Brampton, Ontario, Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Charger_%28LX%29
 
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: chubbs1


I am going with an American made car next. 2012 Charger with the V6 Pentastar is a good deal right now. They also have some 2011's left, very nice car and engine. Just do your home work on as many sites as possible.


Just a note. That "American" car is built in Brampton, Ontario, Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Charger_%28LX%29


Canada is part of North America......
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


Canada is part of North America......


So is Georgia and Alabama where those Kias and Hyundais are being built. Even if they did secede again
 
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