What type anti-seize for spark plugs?

I personally have never used antisieze on any spark plug thread in anything I have changed. I would say I have changed a good amount and have never had a problem. Not saying Its not possible but I can imagine using the wrong compound could be worse than not using any.

As for the torque changing with the application of the compound You dont change the amount its torqued with compound you change the amount it goes into the hole with the same amount of torque. The force we have working in this application which is friction is lessened with lubrication allowing less force to do the same anount of work.
 
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Originally Posted By: Foch

I've heard this before but don't beleive it. I mean, the torque wrench dosn't know if the plug has anti-sieze on it. The torque wrench will 'click' at say 20 ft.lbs, with anti-sieze or not. That value dosn't change.

Maybe I'm crazy, but this is what logic tells me.


You're right, the torque wrench doesn't know, but you're confusing bolt tensions with friction torque. If the bolt spins more easily (as a lubricated fastener will), then the joint will be under more tension for the same amount of friction applied to the fastener. That's why you reduce the torque for a lubricated fastener. It doesn't matter how tight it is to turn the bolt, what matters is the tension between the plug and the cylinder head. Friction torque is just a proxy for that (and an inaccurate one). Make sense?

For spark plugs, if you're using antiseize on a cylinder head in service, I think you're better off either tightening to the low end of the unlubricated spec (if there's a range), or just keeping it the same--unless you aggressively clean up the threads. The added friction created by the dirt in the threads is probably adds about as much friction as the lubricant reduces. Better yet, use angle torque. Most plug manufacturers give angle torque specs for their various plugs. You just have to be careful to pay attention and use the right ones. They vary greatly depending on the plug type.
 
Many spark plugs are nickel plated and do not require anti-seize.
Dielectric grease is an electrical insulator and can cause odd mis-fires. The worst plug that i know is the long nose plug in the f150 triton. They break in half all the time. The correct application of anti-seize on this plug per Autolite is apply anti seize to the long nose but NOT to the threads. T each his own but torque must be reduced when using anti-seize.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
The added friction created ..
But surely the specified torque is for clean threads.

I agree though -- since most spark plugs have a crush gasket there's your perfect indicator - just stop tightening somewhere in the middle of the crush range.
 
if you never want spark plug thread problems then do this:

1. add a little bit, VERY LITTLE! just enough to coat the threads. too much will make the torque wrench torque the spark plug further than it needs to be. Anti-seize won't hurt anything but it can save a lot of headaches if you snap your plug on the next tune up
2. USE A TORQUE WRENCH!! i NEVER hand tight spark plugs and torque to OEM SPEC
3. Apply some di-electric grease on the spark plug boot
 
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Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
Originally Posted By: JOD
The added friction created ..
But surely the specified torque is for clean threads.


Yep, it's spec'd for clean threads/new cylinder head. Which is why you'd want to go on the high side (or the unlubricated spec on a lubricated plug) if the cylinder head is in service, unless you aggressively clean the threads. The increased friction from the dirt on the threads will result in lower joint tension for the same friction torque. That's the nice thing about angle torque: it removes thread condition from the equation.
 
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
[a Permatex "tech."] stated that basically any of them would work o.k.
...
I have always used the gray/silver product, VERY minimal amount, in both iron and aluminum heads with no "apparent" problems.

Am I doing something wrong?

Nope, you're doing it right. I've used a tiny dab of the regular silver (C/Al/Cu) stuff for years in both iron & aluminum heads without issue. Makes your life a lot easier when it comes time to remove the plugs later, too.

IMO you can use the nickel or copper stuff but for a regular gasser's spark plugs there's no need for the fancier stuff. I like nickel anti seize on glowplugs but that's due to the higher heat & combustion chamber pressures.

Dielectric grease on the boot is also an excellent idea.

Originally Posted By: Foch
Maybe I'm crazy, but this is what logic tells me.

Your logic is flawed - the wrench only reacts to the torque at which it was set. It is up to the user to correctly set the torque indication value.

Originally Posted By: Trav
Reducing torque values by 20% is the common rule of thumb.

Quite correct. I could go through the derivation of this value if anyone else wants to open up their sophomore-level mechanical engineering textbooks, otherwise please just take it as a good rule of thumb.

One other thing I come across frequently is many folks think that 'dry' torque values mean 'without any oil or anti-seize applied by you' which is WRONG! If you have a bolt tension gauge, you can easily see that the difference between true clean & dry threads and what you'll frequently come across in your engine bay is night & day. You would need to manually and chemically clean each set of mating threads to get a true dry thread condition.

It takes VERY little residual oil from your fingers to move the threaded joint into the lubricated condition - often just picking up a bolt by the threads with fairly clean hands will transfer enough to make it happen. Once it is in this condition, no further amount of lubrication will make a difference. IMO it makes more sense to ensure the bolt is in the lubricated condition (unless there is a good engineering reason as to why it must be installed dry) as that allows for better spark plug tension control in real-world environments.
 
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: wirelessF
What plugs are you installing? The more expensive NGK plugs don't need anti-seize.

It is is you want to be able to remove the plugs someday and leave the aluminum threads in the head.
X2...antiseize on the plugs and aluminum heads go hand in hand.

The most important thing to remember when applying it to the plug threads is to use a tiny amount a couple of threads above the electrodes.....antiseize on the (electrodes)firing end of the plug will foul it out and cause a misfire. A little bit of that stuff goes a LONG way.
 
Originally Posted By: Foch
Originally Posted By: Trav
Reducing torque values by 20% is the common rule of thumb.


I've heard this before but don't beleive it. I mean, the torque wrench dosn't know if the plug has anti-sieze on it. The torque wrench will 'click' at say 20 ft.lbs, with anti-sieze or not. That value dosn't change.

Maybe I'm crazy, but this is what logic tells me.
With aluminum heads, tighen the plugs until a hair past snug and call it day. There are times when you absolutely cannot fit a torque wrench on the plug to torque it so you have to improvise. lol
 
Originally Posted By: beast3300
flamesuit on/

No anti-seize needed.

flamesuit off/
With iron heads...yes that is true. With aluminum heads, well, your plug threads will thank you for using it. lol
 
Don't use antiseize on sparkplugs.


From AC Delco:
Quote:
Do not use any type of anti-seize compound on spark plug threads. Doing this will decrease the amount of friction between the threads. The result of the lowered friction is that when the spark plug is torqued to the proper specification, the spark plug is turned too far into the cylinder head. This increases the likelihood of pulling or stripping the threads in the cylinder head. Over-tightening of a spark plug can cause stretching of the spark plug shell and could allow blowby to pass through the gasket seal between the shell and insulator. Over-tightening also results in extremely difficult removal.

From Autolite:
Quote:
We do not recommend the use of any anti seize products for installing spark plugs. Antiseize compounds are typically composed of metallic, electrically conductive ingredients. If antiseize compounds come in contact with the core nose of the plugs, it can lead to a misfire condition. Antiseize compounds can also have a torque multiplying effect when installing plugs. This can lead to thread distortion and thread galling resulting in cylinder head damage. Autolite spark plugs are nickel plated to resist the effects of corrosion and seizing. However, plug seizure is aggravated further when steel plugs are installed into aluminum cylinder heads for a long period of time. You may want to consider the periodic inspection of the plugs to reduce the likelihood of plug seizure during extended plug service intervals.

From NGK:
Quote

The use of anti-seize on spark plugs is only recommended on those brands that
do not offer a special metal shell plating. Spark plugs that have a shiny silver
appearance on the metal body usually indicate that the spark plug is
manufactured with special metal shell plating.

http://www.ngkplugpro.ca/content/contentfiles/pdf/NGKSP-0907-1R-Anti-SeizeonSparkPlugs.pdf

From Champion:
Quote:
Champion recommends that you do not use an anti-seize compound, since one has already been applied to the plugs at the factory.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/475238-anti-seize-spark-plugs-2.html
_________________________
 
Originally Posted By: mva
Don't use antiseize on sparkplugs.


From AC Delco:
Quote:
Do not use any type of anti-seize compound on spark plug threads. Doing this will decrease the amount of friction between the threads. The result of the lowered friction is that when the spark plug is torqued to the proper specification, the spark plug is turned too far into the cylinder head. This increases the likelihood of pulling or stripping the threads in the cylinder head. Over-tightening of a spark plug can cause stretching of the spark plug shell and could allow blowby to pass through the gasket seal between the shell and insulator. Over-tightening also results in extremely difficult removal.

From Autolite:
Quote:
We do not recommend the use of any anti seize products for installing spark plugs. Antiseize compounds are typically composed of metallic, electrically conductive ingredients. If antiseize compounds come in contact with the core nose of the plugs, it can lead to a misfire condition. Antiseize compounds can also have a torque multiplying effect when installing plugs. This can lead to thread distortion and thread galling resulting in cylinder head damage. Autolite spark plugs are nickel plated to resist the effects of corrosion and seizing. However, plug seizure is aggravated further when steel plugs are installed into aluminum cylinder heads for a long period of time. You may want to consider the periodic inspection of the plugs to reduce the likelihood of plug seizure during extended plug service intervals.

From NGK:
Quote

The use of anti-seize on spark plugs is only recommended on those brands that
do not offer a special metal shell plating. Spark plugs that have a shiny silver
appearance on the metal body usually indicate that the spark plug is
manufactured with special metal shell plating.

http://www.ngkplugpro.ca/content/contentfiles/pdf/NGKSP-0907-1R-Anti-SeizeonSparkPlugs.pdf

From Champion:
Quote:
Champion recommends that you do not use an anti-seize compound, since one has already been applied to the plugs at the factory.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/475238-anti-seize-spark-plugs-2.html
_________________________
LOL! They are only saying this because people have been known to be sloppy with anti seize! Like I said above, a little goes a long way and you must apply it properly. If you glop it on the plug threads or if you get it on your fingers and you touch the electrodes, you will foul the plug out. Use anti seize properly and you won't have any problems.
 
I advocate the use of anti-seize on plugs. The best example of why you should is the Ford F-150 with the Triton 5.4L V8. It has two piece plugs which become frozen in the heads esp. if you run them 100k. When the mechanic tries to remove them, they break into two pieces and the bottom part of the plug is difficult to remove. The head needs to be replaced at great expense. So a simple spark plug replacement becomes a major cyl. head R & R. It only takes two frozen plugs, one in each head, and both heads are scrapped. Get some anti-seize and some Champion one piece plugs for your 5.4 Ford.
 
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Reactions: GON
Originally Posted By: Jim Spahr
I advocate the use of anti-seize on plugs. The best example of why you should is the Ford F-150 with the Triton 5.4L V8. It has two piece plugs which become frozen in the heads esp. if you run them 100k. When the mechanic tries to remove them, they break into two pieces and the bottom part of the plug is difficult to remove. The head needs to be replaced at great expense. So a simple spark plug replacement becomes a major cyl. head R & R. It only takes two frozen plugs, one in each head, and both heads are scrapped. Get some anti-seize and some Champion one piece plugs for your 5.4 Ford.


There is a tool that negates the need to remove the head and will extract the broken piece. The heads do not need to come off.
 
Ooh, sounds like a tool everyone should have...that doesn't use anti-seize!!!
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Ooh, sounds like a tool everyone should have...that doesn't use anti-seize!!!
grin2.gif



The tool is ONLY for the 3V ford engine
wink.gif
 
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