2010 Honda CR-V Wrong Oil? 5W-20 instead of 0W-20

[Daryll]

Quote:
They offered to change it out--then offered to credit the oil change when he gets it changed next time. What else can they do? Seems like good service from the dealer to me. Yeah, they made a mistake. Things happen. This wasn't exactly a major mistake, and they're rectifying the situation. That's a more positive experience than I've ever had with a dealer...


Actually, it's even better than that. They will refund my credit card for THIS oil change. So it's over...we don't need to go back to the same dealer next time. And I agree that if it was an honest mistake, they fixed it and move on. The question is whether it was really that or do this routinely do this. I'll never know but as I said, I reported it to Honda so if a pattern becomes clear, I did my small duty toward rectifying a bad dealer. And if it was a rare mistake, my complaint won't hurt them much if at all.

Movin' on.

 

[freezing1]

My local Honda dealer did the same thing to our 2010 CR-V at the initial change. I brought my own M-1 0W-20 for the dealer to install for the next several changes, which they happily did.

5W-20 vs. 0W-20 might make less of a difference in a warmer climate, but at -30F I'm not chancing it.

 

[troyh]

Originally Posted By: ammolab
The fact that the Aussie and Russian Honda manuals "spec/allow" 5W-40 oils should put aside all fears that a single grade change in your oil fill is going to harm any Honda. It's as hot in Australia as Texas and as cold as Duluth in Russia. It isn't a climate thing...it's a CAFE thing.

It also makes me think this talk of "tighter tolerances" or modern engines "designed and Spec'd" for 0W-20 oils is something of a wife's tale. How do they "back spec" and engine for 0W-20 oils if tolerances make that much of a difference?

Can an older engine 'tighten up' it's sphincters when hit with modern 0W-20 oil? How do it know?



This is what throws me off as well. I have a 2011 Mustang and a 2007 Toyota Tundra. Both claim that due to the "tight tolerances" they require lower weight oils, the Mustang 5W-20 and the Tundra 0W-20.

Then I think of the Ferraris that use much higher weight oils, but the "tighter tolerances" must not apply to this brand?

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Daryll
No great response from Honda. Honda itself just has a person answer the phone and contact the dealership. Yawn. Then the service manager called and claimed that his tech accidentially used the 5W-20 that's their most common oil blah blah blah. He offered to rechange it, but I decided, based on what I've read here, to leave it in for 3-4K miles...maybe 5...then have it done right next time. They'll credit the cost of the oil change but that's really not a satisfactory fix. But I guess this is more of a misdemeanor than a felony so I'll let it go at that. I did document everything so if there ever is an engine problem I can show THEIR dealer goofed way back when. But again, from what I read here, the odds of anything bad happening are slim. And there is a good chance daughter will be onto another vehicle before this vehicle would get to the point where an engine would start to go bad.

If Honda DOES track dealer complainsts, at least I added a notch to this dealer's bad-boy belt.

That's about as good as it is going to get. An independent shop would have probably told you to go pound sand.

 

[ammolab]

Originally Posted By: 91344George
Originally Posted By: ammolab


The engine MAY be SIMILAR to that used in other markets BUT Honda and other car makers typically will "tweak" things depending on where the model is sold. It could be that the ECU is mapped differently or any number of other things as well.

Bottom line is if the manufacturer requires 0w-20 in the US spec car, then an authorized Honda dealer is supposed to be adhering to that factory spec. Not doing it's own thing.


For sure he should have received the correct oil and for sure "market" cars are different in many ways; headlights, seat covers, tires, etc....but I can't see how these or a remap of the Engine Control Unit could seriously change lubrication requirements in a Honda CR-V. Do they get a 11,000 RPM Rev limit in other markets?

 

[Norm Olt]

Fact #1: It was done at a Honda Dealership...

Keep your receipt.

 

[1999nick]

Originally Posted By: troyh

Originally Posted By: ammolab
The fact that the Aussie and Russian Honda manuals "spec/allow" 5W-40 oils should put aside all fears that a single grade change in your oil fill is going to harm any Honda. It's as hot in Australia as Texas and as cold as Duluth in Russia. It isn't a climate thing...it's a CAFE thing.

It also makes me think this talk of "tighter tolerances" or modern engines "designed and Spec'd" for 0W-20 oils is something of a wife's tale. How do they "back spec" and engine for 0W-20 oils if tolerances make that much of a difference?

Can an older engine 'tighten up' it's sphincters when hit with modern 0W-20 oil? How do it know?


If they are really speaking of "tighter tolerances", I would not have much confidence in what else they say. They probably mean "closer clearances". Big difference. "Tolerance" is merely the allowable variation between the nominal dimension and inevitable variation due to the manufacturing process.


This is what throws me off as well. I have a 2011 Mustang and a 2007 Toyota Tundra. Both claim that due to the "tight tolerances" they require lower weight oils, the Mustang 5W-20 and the Tundra 0W-20.

Then I think of the Ferraris that use much higher weight oils, but the "tighter tolerances" must not apply to this brand?

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: troyh

Originally Posted By: ammolab
The fact that the Aussie and Russian Honda manuals "spec/allow" 5W-40 oils should put aside all fears that a single grade change in your oil fill is going to harm any Honda. It's as hot in Australia as Texas and as cold as Duluth in Russia. It isn't a climate thing...it's a CAFE thing.

It also makes me think this talk of "tighter tolerances" or modern engines "designed and Spec'd" for 0W-20 oils is something of a wife's tale. How do they "back spec" and engine for 0W-20 oils if tolerances make that much of a difference?

Can an older engine 'tighten up' it's sphincters when hit with modern 0W-20 oil? How do it know?



This is what throws me off as well. I have a 2011 Mustang and a 2007 Toyota Tundra. Both claim that due to the "tight tolerances" they require lower weight oils, the Mustang 5W-20 and the Tundra 0W-20.

Then I think of the Ferraris that use much higher weight oils, but the "tighter tolerances" must not apply to this brand?

The spec' oil for all current production Ferraris is the Shell (PU) 5W-40 with a rather low HTHSV of 3.68cP. That's not a particularly heavy oil. But without question on the track the oil temp's the Ferrari will see will be much higher than a street driven Mustang or any Toyota vehicle for which a 0W-20 (HTHSV 2.6cP) oil is specified. The actual operational viscosity of the heavier oil in the Ferrari could easily be lower than the operational viscosity in the Mustang or Toyota although they are running a lighter oil grade.

Today, all modern engines have tight clearances and the reason a heavier oil may be specified is because higher oil temp's may occur. Drive a Ferrari like your grandmother drives her Prius and you could run a 0W-20 oil in that as well.

 

[Daryll]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
That's about as good as it is going to get. An independent shop would have probably told you to go pound sand.


Isn't that exactly the point for using an authorized Honda dealer?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Daryll
He offered to rechange it, but I decided, based on what I've read here, to leave it in for 3-4K miles...maybe 5...then have it done right next time. They'll credit the cost of the oil change but that's really not a satisfactory fix. ... I did document everything so if there ever is an engine problem I can show THEIR dealer goofed way back when.



I dont get what you think youre doing.

They offered to change the oil. Good for them.

You decided to leave it in. You had every option to swap it out. The fact that you denied the change means that YOU made the wrong decision. The fact that YOU KNOW that it is the wrong oil puts the ball in your court.

They screwed up. I get that. But you could have made it right.

If anything goes wrong, they are going to throw it back in YOUR face and be in the clear.

What would the satisfactory fix have been? Two oil changes one after the other to be sure it is all cleared out?

Or are they supposed to give you a free engine for using an oil that effectively is the same unless youre doing repeated cold starts at -30C?

 

[91344George]

The frustrating thing is that an AUTHORIZED Honda dealer should not have to be told by the customer about which spec oil to be used! As it is right there in the factory manuals (online) which they have access to 24/7. And I am sure they service thousands of identical vehicles every year. THE DEALER IS SUPPOSED TO BE PROPERLY EQUIPPED AND TRAINED TO PERFORM THE CORRECT SERVICE AND USE THE CORRECT FLUIDS. Period.

The dealer made the mistake not the customer, but I agree that I would have had them change the oil ASAP.

 

[Daryll]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I dont get what you think youre doing.

They offered to change the oil. Good for them.

You decided to leave it in. You had every option to swap it out. The fact that you denied the change means that YOU made the wrong decision. The fact that YOU KNOW that it is the wrong oil puts the ball in your court.

They screwed up. I get that. But you could have made it right.

If anything goes wrong, they are going to throw it back in YOUR face and be in the clear.

What would the satisfactory fix have been? Two oil changes one after the other to be sure it is all cleared out?

Or are they supposed to give you a free engine for using an oil that effectively is the same unless youre doing repeated cold starts at -30C?


Fair enough, you make a good point. I guess the whole cavalier attitude of the way both Honda and the dealer dismissed this as not serious is ticking me off.

 

[1999nick]

There is a government mandate that the oil used when the mileage figures on the window sticker are obtained be the same weight of oil that is specified in the owner's manual. Hence, the requirement for 0W20.

As far as the engine itself is concerned, as in the past, many different weights of oil would be satisfactory. The manual for my 1980 Pontiac specifies no less than 10 different oil weights, from straight 10 weight to 20W50, depending on the temperature.

These Honda engines specifying 0W20 oils would not know the difference if a 5W40 were used, as is the case in other parts of the world. The notion that the engine would suffer if 5W20 was used instead of 0W20 is almost laughable.

 

[Boss302fan]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
5W-20 doesn't have near the cold start protection of 0W-20.
Sadly, your Honda is gonna suffer some cold start damage.

That is a statement that is totally ridiculous...

This Honda being located in Atlanta will be fine. You are lucky to have a daughter that actually is not forgetting and being responsible by servicing her vehicle. LOL.

Again, 5W20 in her CRV will work fine and the CRV engine will run for 250K+ miles on that oil. Probably even double that. Great engine.

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: Daryll
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I dont get what you think youre doing.

They offered to change the oil. Good for them.

You decided to leave it in. You had every option to swap it out. The fact that you denied the change means that YOU made the wrong decision. The fact that YOU KNOW that it is the wrong oil puts the ball in your court.

They screwed up. I get that. But you could have made it right.

If anything goes wrong, they are going to throw it back in YOUR face and be in the clear.

What would the satisfactory fix have been? Two oil changes one after the other to be sure it is all cleared out?

Or are they supposed to give you a free engine for using an oil that effectively is the same unless youre doing repeated cold starts at -30C?


Fair enough, you make a good point. I guess the whole cavalier attitude of the way both Honda and the dealer dismissed this as not serious is ticking me off.


so, it seems to me that the issue has more to do with you being ansy on dealership's servicing and trustworthy, not so much on them making things right for you?

If this is the case then I'm afraid you would have no choice from now on but to stay away from stealerships and go indy...which the likeliness of scrwing you up would be considerably higher (until you or your daughter can find an honest local indy shop nearby to stick with).

Q.

 

[law3500]

Originally Posted By: 1999nick
There is a government mandate that the oil used when the mileage figures on the window sticker are obtained be the same weight of oil that is specified in the owner's manual. Hence, the requirement for 0W20.

As far as the engine itself is concerned, as in the past, many different weights of oil would be satisfactory. The manual for my 1980 Pontiac specifies no less than 10 different oil weights, from straight 10 weight to 20W50, depending on the temperature.

These Honda engines specifying 0W20 oils would not know the difference if a 5W40 were used, as is the case in other parts of the world. The notion that the engine would suffer if 5W20 was used instead of 0W20 is almost laughable.


+1 the dealer actually knows that no damage will be done by the 5w20 so they use whatever pricepoint the local market will support.

 

[Daryll]

@Law3500 just above: I think you are zeroing in on what ticked me off. They treated this as if this is their normal operating procedure. I'll bet it is. Very few question what they put in, because they are "the Honda dealer". And those who do get told "5W-20 is also recommended by Honda" or "here in Atlanta it gets hot in the summer so we use a little thicker oil". And how many would even know enough to say "no, it is not for this vehicle". Yeah, it's deceitful really. The oil is a little cheaper.

@Quest: I sense your sarcasm that you think I am overreacting. the answer is not necessarily to abandon the dealer, but to be more certain in the future to emphatically tell them to put in 0W-20. Fool me once....

 

[Quest]

@ Daryll.

Yes, sarcasm-aside: unless they allow you to stand on the shop floor (mostly due to safety/labour codes, impossible) and watch the mech topping/adding oil of the appropriate grade (or per your request), otherwise, you pretty much have to lay your blind faith on them and believe that they are doing the right thing for you.

Remember this: up and until around 1999 ~2001, most Honda NA products require 5W30 as standard oil grade/weight for their automobiles. From that point onwards: it could be 5W30, 5W20, 0W20,etc.

In other parts of the country (NZ, Jpn, etc. 5W30/10W30/even 10W40 can be used w/o issues).

unless otherwise specifically requested (upfront): most dealerships only stock bulk oil grades that has the highest demand (in this case, it should be 5W20) or sometimes they stock up with 0W20 also.

It's also not uncommon to use 0W20 in place of 5W20 (our local Honda stealerships regularly does that as common practice) so no harm done here.

Your stealership did the right thing by offering you oil change and such, and that honesty seldom seen here. I'd take it as water under the bridge and move on (I'd stick with them if I were your daughter, knowing full well that they are going to treat you/make things right).

Oh and I haven't mentioned to you RE: some indy shops opt for 10W40/15W50 here on HOnda accords citing unsubstantiated claims about higher viscosity oil for older cars (that originally calls for 5W30)?

So, bottomline is: it's a Friday and I may not see your point, afterall.

Have a good one.

Q.

 

[Daryll]

YOU TOO,

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: Daryll


YOU TOO,


@Daryll:

The last few posts or so make you think we're seeing the comments of dealer employees who probably are doing the exact same thing that was done with your car. IMPROPER SERVICE!

It doesn't matter what the dealer "feels" like doing, or what price point they think the area will support, as an AUTHORIZED dealer for Honda vehicles and it is THEIR JOB to adhere to Honda guidelines to maintain the vehicle warranty. Sure maybe if the wrong oil is used AHM MIGHT cover it. But what if your receipt has the INCORRECT oil listed on it? Are they still going to "cover it" ...MAYBE NOT. We don't know.

The darn dealer should be using the HONDA specified oil. PERIOD. Nothing else.