sent my flat marshmellow xice xi2's back

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Ordering up some replacements on hub centric rims.

Trying to decide between

goodyear ultragrip WRT (new this year)

blizzack ws70


possibly others.

they will be mounted on HUB CENTRIC steel rims.


opinions(with your reasoning? no straight bashing please)


If anyone is interested the tires were balanced poorly and felt like I had 3 flatspoted marshmellows and one concrete rock on my car... and it was getting worse.

It was bad at 50 and bad at 80.. and HORRID PULL OUT MY HAIR at 65... which is what most people drive around here.

DTD is taking care of me with a full refund and prepaid shipping labels.
 
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WS70 is the closest competitor.

See if they'll order you some Nokian Hakkapelitas. Those are another top-rated tire.
 
What car? What conditions? What preferences?

The selection path on winter tires starts with whether you should go high performance or max snow and ice. You must realize that ALL tire designs are compromises. So, what's most important to you? What are your typical winter driving conditions?
 
I like the Nokian Hakka R's on my Cruze. They are quiet, ride well, and grip in wet like nobody's business. It was between the Nokians and the Michelins. From your review, glad I went with the Nokians.
 
Nobody carries nokians in my tire size.

If I went with an oddball size they cost aprox 75$ more a tire.


I purchased ws-70's on hubcentric steel rims.

The xice xi2's are great on my gf's accent but DTD did a POOR job balancing on mine and I'm OCD on wheel vibrations they were driving me nuts everytime I got on the highway.

They were fine below 35. Also I'm not really happy with them selling me lug centric rims since they were pricematching tirerack with HUBCENTRIC steel rims.


I could have had them rebalanced but it cost me nothing to send them back.
 
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What difference does the centering method (hub vs lug) for the rims make as far as deciding which tire to buy?
 
hubcentric is superior.

Its what I thought I was buying from DTD.

IF you have a bad vibration it can also be one of the causes (lug centric).. IMO it was just some idiot who didnt balance them right at DTD but its free to return them. cost me $$$ to get them rebalanced locally to see if that fixes it.

I went with the michelins because dtd only stocks 2 winter tires that fit my car and I passed on the generic brand one.

Since I'm returning them and buying elsewhere I have more options and I went with a different tire.
 
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Are your lug nuts standard acorn-style lug nuts? If so, your wheels are ultimately lug-centered wheels, regardless of whether they're sold as "hubcentric" or if your center bore size is about the same size as the hub flange. Acorn-style nuts will lug-center a wheel, no matter what the center bore size is (as long as it's equal to or greater than the hub flange size obviously).

True hubcentric wheels use mag-style lug nuts with flat washers.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Are your lug nuts standard acorn-style lug nuts? If so, your wheels are ultimately lug-centered wheels, regardless of whether they're sold as "hubcentric" or if your center bore size is about the same size as the hub flange. Acorn-style nuts will lug-center a wheel, no matter what the center bore size is (as long as it's equal to or greater than the hub flange size obviously).

True hubcentric wheels use mag-style lug nuts with flat washers.


Not True...
 
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Are your lug nuts standard acorn-style lug nuts? If so, your wheels are ultimately lug-centered wheels, regardless of whether they're sold as "hubcentric" or if your center bore size is about the same size as the hub flange. Acorn-style nuts will lug-center a wheel, no matter what the center bore size is (as long as it's equal to or greater than the hub flange size obviously).

True hubcentric wheels use mag-style lug nuts with flat washers.


Not True...


How so?
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Are your lug nuts standard acorn-style lug nuts? If so, your wheels are ultimately lug-centered wheels, regardless of whether they're sold as "hubcentric" or if your center bore size is about the same size as the hub flange. Acorn-style nuts will lug-center a wheel, no matter what the center bore size is (as long as it's equal to or greater than the hub flange size obviously).

True hubcentric wheels use mag-style lug nuts with flat washers.


Not True...


How so?


I think you're correct. Don't most big rigs use hub-centric wheels with the mag style nuts and flat washers? Aren't most trailers (boats, campers, etc.) like this, too?
 
Well, the wheel industry uses the term "hubcentric" to mean any wheel with a center bore that is supposed to fit snugly over the hub flange, and center the wheel while the lug nuts are being installed. According to industry terminology, even those wheels that use acorn-style lug nuts are hubcentric.

However, hubcentric wheels don't make an interference fit with the hub flange. There's still some wiggle. And when you get down to it, if the wheel uses acorn-style lug nuts with the tapered 60-degree seats, the wheel will find its own center when you torque the lug nuts.

What the industry calls "lugcentric" wheels are those wheels that don't have a center bore that rides on a hub flange. My '84 Cutlass had rallye wheels that were like that. Those wheels have to be balanced using the lug holes. I understand the difference between how the industry defines "lugcentric" and "hubcentric", but when you get down to brass tacks, tapered-seat lug nuts will ultimately center a wheel on the wheel stud bolt circle.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Well, the wheel industry uses the term "hubcentric" to mean any wheel with a center bore that is supposed to fit snugly over the hub flange, and center the wheel while the lug nuts are being installed. According to industry terminology, even those wheels that use acorn-style lug nuts are hubcentric.

However, hubcentric wheels don't make an interference fit with the hub flange. There's still some wiggle. And when you get down to it, if the wheel uses acorn-style lug nuts with the tapered 60-degree seats, the wheel will find its own center when you torque the lug nuts.

What the industry calls "lugcentric" wheels are those wheels that don't have a center bore that rides on a hub flange. My '84 Cutlass had rallye wheels that were like that. Those wheels have to be balanced using the lug holes. I understand the difference between how the industry defines "lugcentric" and "hubcentric", but when you get down to brass tacks, tapered-seat lug nuts will ultimately center a wheel on the wheel stud bolt circle.


That's not quite true.

There are many - may be even most - wheels that have tapered center hub holes with an interference fit at the point where the wheel fully seats against the hub - and they have tapered lug nuts. It's really common in the OE market. So while it may look like there is a gap, there isn't one where it counts.

Further, the tapered seats on the lug nuts (and wheels) may pull the wheel to one side - but only a little. Careful seating of the lug nuts will prevent this from happening. That's why they recommend using a star pattern for lug nut tightening - and knowledgeable folks will snug the nuts up first so the wheel is properly centered before the final torquing. Only the numbnuts slam the impact gun on full force for the first nut.

I'm reasonably sure that it is only in the aftermarket where you have lug centric wheels - and those don't always have tapered lug nut seats.

Put another way: You can't tell if a wheel is hub centeric or lug centric just by looking at the lug seat area.
 
Well, I will yield in this case...

But in my own experience, none of the OEM "hubcentric" wheels I've owned have a super tight fit with the hub, or at least they don't seem to. The lug nuts snugging down into their tapered seats do the final fitting/centering of the wheel.

But I could be wrong, and apparently I am!
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Well, I will yield in this case...

But in my own experience, none of the OEM "hubcentric" wheels I've owned have a super tight fit with the hub, or at least they don't seem to. The lug nuts snugging down into their tapered seats do the final fitting/centering of the wheel.

But I could be wrong, and apparently I am!


Interesting point from Ford Land over here:

1. The Lincoln has long, protruding hubs that are tapered. The wheels seat on these, but it uses acorn nuts.

2. The Expedition has similar hubs, similar wheel fitment, but with the washer-style flat nuts.
 
On my '84 Cutlass, you just hung the wheel on the wheel studs and it would "draw" into place as you snugged each lug nut down. They were definitely lugcentric wheels. Hard to balance too, apparently. Maybe few shops had balancing equipment made to handle that particular style of wheel.
 
My Toyota Tundra OEM steel wheels use cone-seat lug nuts. The OEM alloy wheels for that truck use flat washer lug nuts.

Most consumer-sized trailers use lug-centric wheels for two reasons--there are no hubs of a size to engage the wheels, and the wheels are often so cheaply made that the center pilot holes are stamped out somewhere near the center and not in the true center. These wheels must be balanced with a lug-centric adapter on the balancer unless one can determine that the center pilot holes in the wheel are in fact in the true center. (I believe that everything that rotates needs to be balanced for the longest life of the tires, bearings, and suspension pivots and other affected parts.)

Aren't there some Ford OEM light truck wheels that are lug-centric?
 
Didnt mean to start a big debate..

I guess it boiled down to.

Thought I was buying oe style hub centric rims.

I would have been ok with the lug centric steel rims but they vibrated bad at 65mph..
DTD even said they recommend hub centric but the lug centric is usually ok for winter and other low performance tires... but sometimes they do cause vibration.
I would have most likely upgraded to an alloy wheel for 75$ more (for all 4).


Send tires and rims back = Free

fix problem
a bent rim, bad balancing job etc = my $$$
 
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Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Only the numbnuts slam the impact gun on full force for the first nut.


Is that the technical term?
grin.gif


It's a good enough descriptor; it just sounded funny coming from you!
 
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