Mobil1 0W-40, 5000mi, '99 Saab 9³

MO · May 31, 2005

This is my first UOA, but my third interval with M1 0W-40. During this interval, I had the valve cover off to retorque the head bolts as a precaution (most were improperly torqued from the factory) and I probably got some dust in there, as it was a little windy that day (and I was outside). Silicon is still pretty low, though. I know that high lead and iron numbers are normal in a Saab, but I'd like to see them a bit lower. I switched to M1 5W-40 for the next interval. This seemed to help in Eiron's Saab (same engine) so we'll see if it holds up for me too.

code:

1999 Saab 9³ base model

B204 2.0L turbo engine

75,300 mi on car and engine

5000 mi on oil

no makeup oil added (about 1/4 L lost)

Notes: using K&N air filter

using Saab oil filter

using magnetic oil drain plug

oil was in use during cold Boston winter

driving involves lots of short trips (5-6 miles)

Notes from Blackstone:

No problems showed up in the initial sample from your 99 Saab. Wear generally read a

little higher than average, though nothing was high enough to draw concern at this point. The

universal averages show normal wear after about 5,100 miles on the oil. Silicon was low at 7 ppm, so

we don't think any significant dust contamination was present from the work that was done. The low

flashpoint shows a minor amount of fuel in the oil. It was well below our problem level of 2.0%. No

anti-freeze was found. At 75,300 miles, this engine appears to be doing well.

Element Measured Univ. Avg.

Al 4 3

Cr 3 1

Fe 32 21

Cu 4 4

Pb 16 8

Sn 3 1

Mo 77 52

Ni 1 0

Mn 1 6

Ag 0 0

Ti 0 0

K 0 1

B 115 63

Si 7 8

Na 5 8

Ca 2699 2402

Mg 18 134

P 818 812

Zn 994 941

Ba 0 0

Test Measured Should be

SUS Viscosity 210F 66.6 65-76

Flashpoint, F 375 >375

Fuel %
Antifreeze % 0.0 0

Water % trace
Insolubles % 0.2

[ June 01, 2005, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: MO ]

bigpaulo · Jun 1, 2005

Mo, thanks for sharing that UOA, and

.

Si seems like it wasn't spiked by your valve cover removal/work.

M1 5W40 should be more shear stable than 0W40, will be interesting to see the difference next time you do a UOA... plus, it'll have more summer driving miles

TooSlick · Jun 1, 2005

Wear rates with the shear stable 5w-40 - using an optimum level of ZDP - will be 25%-40% lower for Fe and Pb.

As sure a thing as death and taxes...

railball · Jun 1, 2005

I agree short trips & cold weather may take its toll compared to the warmer weather.What I like about a few reports in a row it gives you a feel for the right OCI for your driving style.I like the low SI and the rest of the report too.Thanks and HAPPY MOTORING.

bulwnkl · Jun 2, 2005

I'll go looking for my old UOAs to be sure, but I believe my '99 SAAB 9-3 with a 250hp Abbott Racing computer showed only ~1/3 that much lead using M1 10W30 back in 2000-2001. The way I recall it my iron was considerably lower as well. If I'm off, I'll post after looking at my couple of UOAs. They would have been from the 30,000-40,000 mile mark.

Doug Hillary · Jun 2, 2005

Hi,
despite the soothsayers comments the oil (M1 0w-40) held viscosity very well in the Turbo engine
It is noted that no top up oil was added!

All numbers look very good with no correlated escalations

A TBN would have been helpful as this oil was not spent when changed

I doubt if any 5w-40 oil will greatly reduce the overall UOA numbers

Regards
Doug

y_p_w · Jun 2, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Doug Hillary:
Hi,
despite the soothsayers comments the oil (M1 0w-40) held viscosity very well in the Turbo engine
It is noted that no top up oil was added!

All numbers look very good with no correlated escalations

A TBN would have been helpful as this oil was not spent when changed

Regards
Doug

Didn't someone state that a trick of Mobil was that it does shear down a tad, but eventually oxidative thickening brings it back up to a 40? M1 0W-40 certainly isn't typical of other A3 oils.

buster · Jun 2, 2005

quote:

Didn't someone state that a trick of Mobil was that it does shear down a tad, but eventually oxidative thickening brings it back up to a 40? M1 0W-40 certainly isn't typical of other A3 oils.

The way they made this oil is clever IMO. It's not designed to be the most shear stable oil, but it will over a 18,000 mile drain, probably still be within it's 40wt range. It's a balancing act between fuel efficiency and viscosity.

I believe Esso does make a very shear stable 0w-40. It's HT/HS is 4.2 I believe. Obviously if one prefers a shear stable 40wt oil, use a 10w-40 or 5w-40 in that order. Those are more shear stable.

Here is the 0w-40 in Porsche Turbo
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001201

[ June 02, 2005, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

Doug Hillary · Jun 2, 2005

Hi,
y_p_w - yes you are correct "M1 0W-40 certainly isn't typical of other A3 oils."

This is one reason why both Porsche and Benz (and AMG) and others too have used this product for so long as a factory fill - and as an "all year round" oil as it is! And especially for longer scheduled OCIs

Some people on here have not yet come (or don't want to come) to grips with its characteristics!

Buster - as usual you have it right!!

Regards
Doug

Pablo · Jun 2, 2005

I don't think I would ever challenge M1's ability to stay in grade. Wear metals are a tad high for me, but this is a SAAB (sorry couldn't resist!)

TooSlick · Jun 2, 2005

Doug,

I am well aware how EOM is manipulating the viscosity of this formulation in service....
The problem is this approach doesn't get you optimium wear characteristics or minimal oil consumption.

An iron level of 32 ppm - after only 5000 miles in a fuel efficient, 2.0L engine - is hardly what I'd call stellar....That's the kind of wear rate I'd expect to see for a large displacement, pushrod V-8 using a high quality oil.

The factory fill stuff is mainly for advertising purposes and EOM has VERY deep pockets. I'm not at all impressed by factory fill applications,since they typically go to the lowest bidder....

I can name at least 5-6 brands of oils off the top of my head that would give you better results in this motor, including Delvac 1, GC/0w-30, Redline, Synergyn and Royal Purple. In fact, any good Group II based, 15w-40 would give you less valve train wear.

buster · Jun 2, 2005

Pablo · Jun 2, 2005

Buster - that must have taken some time.

May I have the executive summary?

IOW, *** are you saying?

griz · Jun 2, 2005

Wear numbers look high. Best results on my '01 were with Esso XD3, a very thick HDEO 0w40 (considerably thicker than the M1). My driving conditions and climate are not that different.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002073#000000

I would go a little thicker, but take it for what its worth. UOA's from one car might not help pick an oil for another car, especially when there are other compounding factors.

bulwnkl · Jun 2, 2005

Well, my experience with my '99 SAAB 9-3 with the 250hp Abbott computer was this:

8000 miles on Mobil 1 10W30, 38000 on car, sampled 6/25/01. This was the 2nd M1 10W30 interval. The first was 10k long.

Fe 16
Cr 2
Pb 4
Cu 23
Tin 4
Al 3
Ni 0
Ag 0
Si 4
B 66
Na 11
Mg 1630
Ca 783
Ba 0
P 781
Zn 976
Mo 27
Ti 0
Vanadium 0
K 0

Fuel Vis@100C 10.13
Water 0%
Soot/solids 0.2
Glycol Neg
TBN 5.1

So, you see, my experience with this year, make, model, and engine shows that M1's lighter grade worked better. This was also a car running MUCH higher stress than stock. It topped out at 20 lbs boost instead of the stock ~12 and running much richer to compensate.

You can see that this oil was not even close to worn out, either. So, 0W40 is not necessarily the way to go here according to my experience.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that this car was run in a combination of Yuma, AZ, and southeastern WA.

[ June 02, 2005, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: bulwnkl ]

griz · Jun 2, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by bulwnkl:

You can see that this oil was not even close to worn out, either. So, 0W40 is not necessarily the way to go here according to my experience.

Intesting. I think I'm gonna revert to my equivocation:
"but take it for what its worth. UOA's from one car might not help pick an oil for another car, especially when there are other compounding factors."

TooSlick · Jun 2, 2005

Bulwinkl,

The Mobil 1, 10w-30 uses a higher molecular weight, base stock blend and it doesn't shear. I'm not surprised at all by these results....

Ted

buster · Jun 2, 2005

I'm not saying anything. Just went back and pulled most of the UOA's since this oil is always talked about. This oil does well in some engines, and not so well in others. It's not an oil for everyone.

boogiemouse · Jun 3, 2005

As a Saab 9-5 owner (2.3 lpt), I need to comment on the fact that these Saab engines all have timing chains, and these timing chains have three friction pads to keep tension.
The high iron wear is normal due to this design, and is not to be compared to timing belt engines.
The other issue became apparent to me when, during a 10,000 mile run with S2k, I had 42 ppm iron, at a time that I was driving 160 miles a day (highway). The very next UOA with the same oil was 4900 miles of short trips in Minnesota winter, and I had the same iron wear!!!
Lead remained very low (2ppm) during both intervals, as did silicon (7ppm)
This report shows a higher iron wear rate, but it is NOT out of line for Saab. I would be more concerned with the lead. (???)
Eiron would concour, I believe.
Good luck with the M1. I'm happy with the S2k.
Craig

TooSlick · Jun 3, 2005

Craig,

The Amsoil 5w-40 will work better (specifically in terms of valve train wear), than the significantly thinner 0w-30 in this particular design. I'm basing this on the comparative wear rates I see with Delvac 1 and Mobil 1 under the same conditions....

You'll be even happier w/ the Amsoil 5w-40, European formulation and it's less expensive to boot.

Tooslick

Mobil1 0W-40, 5000mi, '99 Saab 9³

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